Jake Forster Caskey out on loan?

[severnside gull]

I'm not getting carried away. In the 2 games I've seen him he's been total quality ... and I think he's a star of the future. Saying Tanno and El Abd (at RB per severnside) are better than him is bewildering. We've also heard from B'muff fans saying he's a class act and even tho' it's L1 that can't be ignored. Sad loss ... we could have accommodated him. We get £170K in and we'll have to spend a load more to replace him as inevitably we will

Well that first bit made me chuckle

and I didn't say el Abd was a better right back. I said he was ahead of Cook in the pecking order to provide emergency cover at right back. This is possibly (I'm second guessing Gus here) based on experience and factors such as the ability to think on your feet, positional sense and positional discipline, consistency of performance, fitness and physique, ability to follow orders but also to think independently and make appropriate decisions during a game, level headedness and avoidance of panic under pressure......................... I could go on but these are all things that Gus and his coaches see and assess five or six days a week when they are working with players. In this instance both are natural centre halves but that is a position in which Cook is even further away from a regular first team spot. Calderon is a "natural" full back as is Tanno - both would rightly expect to feature ahead of Cook when fit and on form, Vincelot may suffer from being too versatile but would similarly expect to be ahead of Cook when fit and on form. Professional sport, like any business, values experience ahead of the ingenue for no other reason than - in betting parlance - it pays out more often. Your argument that Cook looks a better right back based on your view over two games really doesn't hold water in the face of any considered view and the realities of a professional sport - it is overly subjective and overly simplistic.

As fans we all have views and we all have favourites and certainly professional managers and coaches all make mistakes but by and large they will make more right decisions than we will because they see more from much closer too and they understand more.

I am sure that Cook can go on to have a fantastic career and even make it to the top. I suspect Gus thinks that too based on the level of fee we have demanded. Hopefully we have negotiated a decent sell-on.
What he wont do is develop as quickly or, quite possibly as far, with us because he simply won't get the game time. That is the reality and it is both justified and rightly justifiable.

Now factor in the ability and progress being made by players further back in the pecking order such as Hall or Vickers and the need to maintain enthusiasm and committment by maintaining the prospect of realistic progression (failing which an awareness that they will be treated fairly and with respect should opportunities arise elsewhere will be crucial).

It is because of how good Cook might be in years to come that we cannot hold him back.

 

[marshy68]

Good deal for both Cook and the club In my opinion.

Cook gets a wage increase, regular football and an extended contract, we could potentially get up to £300k out of the deal.

The reality is, when everyone is fit, Cook doesn't fit into Poyets plans, and I suspect it's an area we are likely to recruit in anyhow.

Gus respects the players best interest's and I suspect Cook was the one keen to link up with the cherries on a pernament basis.

Exactly this.

 

[NMH]

This whole affair isn't just down to Gus and what he wants to do now, just because a lad got a rare game in after several years at Brighton and Hove Albion. There is also the decision of the player.
If told he is still not a cert for a position (and why would he be), may not get a lengthy contract assured when this one is finally over, Cook may well have made the decision off his own back. It wouldn't be a bad one for him to get first team action in League 1, and see where his career might develop from there.
I for one, couldn't blame him if he made the decision to grab his chance at B'mouth.

 

[marshy68]

Well that first bit made me chuckle

and I didn't say el Abd was a better right back. I said he was ahead of Cook in the pecking order to provide emergency cover at right back. This is possibly (I'm second guessing Gus here) based on experience and factors such as the ability to think on your feet, positional sense and positional discipline, consistency of performance, fitness and physique, ability to follow orders but also to think independently and make appropriate decisions during a game, level headedness and avoidance of panic under pressure......................... I could go on but these are all things that Gus and his coaches see and assess five or six days a week when they are working with players. In this instance both are natural centre halves but that is a position in which Cook is even further away from a regular first team spot. Calderon is a "natural" full back as is Tanno - both would rightly expect to feature ahead of Cook when fit and on form, Vincelot may suffer from being too versatile but would similarly expect to be ahead of Cook when fit and on form. Professional sport, like any business, values experience ahead of the ingenue for no other reason than - in betting parlance - it pays out more often. Your argument that Cook looks a better right back based on your view over two games really doesn't hold water in the face of any considered view and the realities of a professional sport - it is overly subjective and overly simplistic.

As fans we all have views and we all have favourites and certainly professional managers and coaches all make mistakes but by and large they will make more right decisions than we will because they see more from much closer too and they understand more.

I am sure that Cook can go on to have a fantastic career and even make it to the top. I suspect Gus thinks that too based on the level of fee we have demanded. Hopefully we have negotiated a decent sell-on.
What he wont do is develop as quickly or, quite possibly as far, with us because he simply won't get the game time. That is the reality and it is both justified and rightly justifiable.

Now factor in the ability and progress being made by players further back in the pecking order such as Hall or Vickers and the need to maintain enthusiasm and committment by maintaining the prospect of realistic progression (failing which an awareness that they will be treated fairly and with respect should opportunities arise elsewhere will be crucial).

It is because of how good Cook might be in years to come that we cannot hold him back.

I could be wrong but i thought cook was a CB - not a right back... thought he was ok but cant cross for toffee...

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I could be wrong but i thought cook was a CB - not a right back... thought he was ok but cant cross for toffee...

Correct, and agreed on the crossing!

 

[BensGrandad]

I thought JFK was dead. Shot by that LHO

Sorry obviously a mistype should have been JFC but the sentiment and view is the same.

 

[Lifelong Supporter]

I do understand that Cook has shown himself to be a good at league 1 level. We have learnt this season there is a wealth of difference between that league and the Championship. There is no known interest from any Championship Club which might also suggest that is currently his level. Centre back is not at the moment one of our 'problem' positions. Bournemouth are offering a 3.5 year contract and it seems to me that Gus would have to spend a good amount of money to match that. Would this be wise given that our budget is restricted and that we are aiming to be a top half team in this division ? Would not the squad be stronger if the monies were spent elsewhere ?

 

[drew]

To be honest when you start a thread with how Gus doesn't know what he is doing and somehow suggest you know better, then I think that would probably be better. Sadly what seems to have happened on here is that anyone supporting the manager (who has taken us from bottom 4 in league 1 to four points off the Championship play offs in two years) has become some sort of suck up to the club.

It's not a dig at all the fans that support the team and GP but to those that seem to live in cloud cuckoo land who believe that he can do no wrong. I want him to be a success and I want that to be at Brighton but I don't think he is yet the perfect manager. The Suarez debacle is an example of that.

Well that first bit made me chuckle

and I didn't say el Abd was a better right back. I said he was ahead of Cook in the pecking order to provide emergency cover at right back. This is possibly (I'm second guessing Gus here) based on experience and factors such as the ability to think on your feet, positional sense and positional discipline, consistency of performance, fitness and physique, ability to follow orders but also to think independently and make appropriate decisions during a game, level headedness and avoidance of panic under pressure......................... I could go on but these are all things that Gus and his coaches see and assess five or six days a week when they are working with players. In this instance both are natural centre halves but that is a position in which Cook is even further away from a regular first team spot. Calderon is a "natural" full back as is Tanno - both would rightly expect to feature ahead of Cook when fit and on form, Vincelot may suffer from being too versatile but would similarly expect to be ahead of Cook when fit and on form. Professional sport, like any business, values experience ahead of the ingenue for no other reason than - in betting parlance - it pays out more often. Your argument that Cook looks a better right back based on your view over two games really doesn't hold water in the face of any considered view and the realities of a professional sport - it is overly subjective and overly simplistic.

As fans we all have views and we all have favourites and certainly professional managers and coaches all make mistakes but by and large they will make more right decisions than we will because they see more from much closer too and they understand more.

I am sure that Cook can go on to have a fantastic career and even make it to the top. I suspect Gus thinks that too based on the level of fee we have demanded. Hopefully we have negotiated a decent sell-on.
What he wont do is develop as quickly or, quite possibly as far, with us because he simply won't get the game time. That is the reality and it is both justified and rightly justifiable.

Now factor in the ability and progress being made by players further back in the pecking order such as Hall or Vickers and the need to maintain enthusiasm and committment by maintaining the prospect of realistic progression (failing which an awareness that they will be treated fairly and with respect should opportunities arise elsewhere will be crucial).

It is because of how good Cook might be in years to come that we cannot hold him back.

What a load of garbage. Basically you are saying you never play youth if there is an older player who has played more games because age comes first. Great. Moyes would never have played Rooney, Wenger would not play Wilshere and Hansen would have been proved right about kids because Ferguson would never had played the Nevilles, Beckham, Scholes, Giggs and Butt etc etc. As for Pele, who put a 16 year old in your national team!!!!

Had we had a fit, suspension free squad from day one, Dunk, JFC and Hall would still be the development squad and who knows may also have disappeared over the horizon to some League one club. As for believing we think he is going to get to the top therefore we should sell him, again what garbage. What are we spending £17m on an academy for if it is just to sell the best that come before they make their mark in our team.

This whole affair isn't just down to Gus and what he wants to do now, just because a lad got a rare game in after several years at Brighton and Hove Albion. There is also the decision of the player.
If told he is still not a cert for a position (and why would he be), may not get a lengthy contract assured when this one is finally over, Cook may well have made the decision off his own back. It wouldn't be a bad one for him to get first team action in League 1, and see where his career might develop from there.
I for one, couldn't blame him if he made the decision to grab his chance at B'mouth.

Er, it is down to Gus. He has the dubious honour of having to manage the squad and the expectations of all the players. No player at any club is guaranteed first team games, look at Man City. If Cook was involved in the first team he wouldn't have been on loan but he knows no matter how he plays he isn't on Gus's radar then of course he is going to accept a move.

 

[severnside gull]

What a load of garbage. Basically you are saying you never play youth if there is an older player who has played more games because age comes first. Great. Moyes would never have played Rooney, Wenger would not play Wilshere and Hansen would have been proved right about kids because Ferguson would never had played the Nevilles, Beckham, Scholes, Giggs and Butt etc etc. As for Pele, who put a 16 year old in your national team!!!!

Had we had a fit, suspension free squad from day one, Dunk, JFC and Hall would still be the development squad and who knows may also have disappeared over the horizon to some League one club. As for believing we think he is going to get to the top therefore we should sell him, again what garbage. What are we spending £17m on an academy for if it is just to sell the best that come before they make their mark in our team.

I am certainly saying that for a club new to a league and seeking to establish itself with good but largely unexceptional players it is logical that experience will win out over latent potential almost all of the time in the same way that in industry the young tyros are rarely the true decision makers. If you think it is any other way except in unusual or exceptional circumstances (an injury crisis for example or a truly outstanding talent, which Cook is not) I think you are being somewhat ingenuous. Youth might get its chance but invariably it has to wait its turn, at this club and pretty well everywhere else.

 

[Da Man Clay]

Cook was out of contract at the end of the year and wasnt realistically going to get enough game time here to stick around. If He had another couple of years on his contract he wouldn't have gone. Shame really as I think he probably will end up as a solid championship cb.

 

[NMH]

Er, it is down to Gus. He has the dubious honour of having to manage the squad and the expectations of all the players. No player at any club is guaranteed first team games, look at Man City. If Cook was involved in the first team he wouldn't have been on loan but he knows no matter how he plays he isn't on Gus's radar then of course he is going to accept a move.

I'm referring to this Cook situation now though - at this very moment.
If a player wants to move, has been on loan and after years with us not getting a game, and soon to have his contract expire - there's really not much a manager can do except play the guy or let him go and advance his career (which actually Cook would be wisest to do).
If he's of a high enough standard, then that's our loss and perhaps later on we might try to buy him back. Otherwise - best to move onwards and upwards.

Really, we must nurture Prem quality players for our future now, if we are thinking of going there at any time.
We are not going to be able to make the leap and compete unless we have more than 15 squad members of high standard, and some other lads pushing for a place from the reserves and youth teams.

 

[drew]

I'm referring to this Cook situation now though - at this very moment.
If a player wants to move, has been on loan and after years with us not getting a game, and soon to have his contract expire - there's really not much a manager can do except play the guy or let him go and advance his career (which actually Cook would be wisest to do).
If he's of a high enough standard, then that's our loss and perhaps later on we might try to buy him back. Otherwise - best to move onwards and upwards.

Really, we must nurture Prem quality players for our future now, if we are thinking of going there at any time.
We are not going to be able to make the leap and compete unless we have more than 15 squad members of high standard, and some other lads pushing for a place from the reserves and youth teams.

But the point I am making is that had Cook been involved with the first team more than he has then a) he probably wouldn't have been out on loan and b) would have been more willing to fight for a regular start. As it turns out the noise coming from GP makes it quite clear he isn't going to feature and that GP is more than likely to look elsewhere. Under those circumstances who wouldn't sign for Bournemouth. The Cook situation isn't about what has happened over the last days but over the last 6 months.

 

[Rugrat]

Well that first bit made me chuckle

2 games ... plus all the reports coming out of B'Muff ... sure you knew what I was getting at but go ahead

The rest is fine ... I disagree with a lot and use Dunk as the example. If we are to make progress as a club then the future is in the hands of players like Cook, JFC etc ... not Cald and Tanno.

Anyway Cook has gone so all a bit academic ... thankfully we have got more, let's hope we keep them

 

[Woodchip]

Good deal for both Cook and the club In my opinion.

Cook gets a wage increase, regular football and an extended contract, we could potentially get up to £300k out of the deal.

The reality is, when everyone is fit, Cook doesn't fit into Poyets plans, and I suspect it's an area we are likely to recruit in anyhow.

Gus respects the players best interest's and I suspect Cook was the one keen to link up with the cherries on a pernament basis.

I don't need to read further than this post as it sums up the situation beautifully (apart from permanent being spelt wrong and some dodgy apostrophes).

Sent by yolk folk

 

[goldstone]

Tanno, Calderon, el Abd, and Vincelot are certainly ahead of him as a RB

What complete and utter crap! ElAbd had an absolute mare at RB for those two recent games and never was a decent RB.. Tanno is definitely past his sell-by date. Calderon past his best IMO. Vincelot OK.

 

[Springal]

This isn't just a Gus decision, I'm pretty sure the board would be saying, we have an offer for £150k~ for a player you have used twice, and not even been on the bench other than that, if you keep him then that's going to take away significantly from your budget in January, sell him and you can go out and get who you really want / need.

Or do we still think Tony Bloom just keeps throwing money at the squad ?

 

[Springal]

What complete and utter crap! ElAbd had an absolute mare at RB for those two recent games and never was a decent RB.. Tanno is definitely past his sell-by date. Calderon past his best IMO. Vincelot OK.

Did you goto Derby ?

 

[severnside gull]

What complete and utter crap! ElAbd had an absolute mare at RB for those two recent games and never was a decent RB.. Tanno is definitely past his sell-by date. Calderon past his best IMO. Vincelot OK.

if all are fit then all are ahead of Cook - two things indicate that this, far from being utter crap, is actually a realistic assessment of the situation. First, all have been selected consistently to play when Cook has not although he has been available. Other than Monday's injury crisis he has only been selected for a couple of cup games as one would expect for a second tier player tbh. The second and quite indisputable fact is that the others are all still Brighton players whereas Cook has gone to Bournemouth. Like it or not, it is demonstrably NOT complete and utter crap.

 

[Storer 68]

Don't blame him for wanting first team football........................... but Bournemouth??

From what I saw against saints he is decent player - bit more time here migt have improved him.

But of course he would be out of contract by the summer so we take any fee that is offered

has being a Bournemouth player improved anyone's career in the past ten years

 

[SittingbourneSeagull]

Firstly, good luck to Cook. Think he is an excellent prospect and don't blame him for signing for Bournemouth but maybe he wouldn't have if he had featured more over the last 5 months. As for JFC, I was, for those didn't realise, being facetious as I have no doubt that he isn't now going out on loan but that is on the basis of one performance, a performance he only got the chance at because of suspensions and injuries. He didn't become that good overnight so begs the question why he hasn't been more involved earlier. Not necessarily starting but at least on the bench and coming on for some game time. There are plenty of people that have been singing his praises for a very long time but he hasn't really had a sniff of a first team game. We have this development squad and it seems the only other player to break through was Dunk (notwithstanding Hall yesterday), not on merit but due to injuries. He subsequently proved himself, apart from the odd yellow card. Had Elphick or El Abd not been injured for the start of the season we may well have seen Dunk on his way on loan and subsequently permanently for a knock down fee.

Agree regarding JFC. Having seen him against Southampton it makes you wonder why we were so desperate to sign Harley and Vincente. I know that as a young player he will need to have breaks and not be consistant but surely that is no different to Vincente. Was also surprised that given our current list of injuries and suspensions that Barker wasn't included rather then Paynter.