[Politics] Is Woke a significant factor in any upcoming General Election?

[Bozza]

when you have politicians with shares in private health voting to lower the NHS budget year on year, you know you’re in trouble.

Look, I'm not posting this as some sort of Tory defence, because I'm not a Tory apologist, but just where do you get that from?

If any politician has been voting to "lower the NHS budget year on year" then they have been failing, as the NHS budget has been increasing year on year for a very long time, both before and during Tory rule.

Just type something like "NHS budget year by year" or "NHS budget year by year in real terms" and choose your site - The King's Fund, Statista or Nuffield Trust - they'll all tell you the same thing: NHS spending has continued to grow.

Now, that's not to say that NHS spending has been increasing by enough, as when you look at spending in terms of both population growth and population demographics (getting older), then it's a pretty easy argument to make that we've not been, and are not, spending enough.

But anyone who suggests NHS budgets have been reduced are just patently wrong.

 

[Chicken Run]

If wanting to be able to have an NHS dentist as was the case when I was a kid makes me woke, if wanting an education system that is accessible and affordable for people from a working class background makes me woke, if wanting an NHS that offers universal care for those sick and dying makes me woke, count me in and call me woken wokey.

You should get a T shirt with that on

 

[Weststander]

The thing about b) is that's mainly a debate that happens in University/Academically or within different interpretation of feminism.

It doesn't really affect 99% of the population, beyond the men who now have much nicer toilets at work.

Many of us urban types who are somewhat surrounded by "new ideas" generally ignore them. If you weren't a complete twat in the first place, it's business as usual.

The right wing politicians (and their media) have continually amplified the debate. The communists aren't coming and the anarchists aren't going to burn down the Houses of Parliament either.

To me, it's just the 80s all over again - a moral panic over Darren lives with Trevor and Steve.

Another example then, opinions on Jewry.

It's a fact that there are those who consider themselves on the right (so to speak) side of everything, yet they've a fixation with racist thinking about UK Jews. There've been a couple on nsc from the left, they grandstand on all 'woke' issues, yet won't talk about Putin or the genocide of Uyghars, instead always a barely veiled hate of Jews.

This has grown, no doubt fueled by Facebook and Twatter.

@Harry Wilson's tackle works with academics who would consider themselves awaken, yet they won't discuss evil regimes they see as their enemies (US, West) enemies.

To me that's a hypocritical immoral compass. But I'd bet they go to bed at night smugly picturing themselves as awoken.

 

[beorhthelm]

If wanting to be able to have an NHS dentist as was the case when I was a kid makes me woke, if wanting an education system that is accessible and affordable for people from a working class background makes me woke, if wanting an NHS that offers universal care for those sick and dying makes me woke, count me in and call me woken wokey.

when did such meat and veg political issues become a matter for the "woke" tag.

 

[Weststander]

Look, I'm not posting this as some sort of Tory defence, because I'm not a Tory apologist, but just where do you get that from?

If any politician has been voting to "lower the NHS budget year on year" then they have been failing, as the NHS budget has been increasing year on year for a very long time, both before and during Tory rule.

Just type something like "NHS budget year by year" or "NHS budget year by year in real terms" and choose your site - The King's Fund, Statista or Nuffield Trust - they'll all tell you the same thing: NHS spending has continued to grow.

Now, that's not to say that NHS spending has been increasing by enough, as when you look at spending in terms of both population growth and population demographics (getting older), then it's a pretty easy argument to make that we've not been, and are not, spending enough.

But anyone who suggests NHS budgets have been reduced are just patently wrong.

Facts

 

[vegster]

It's meaningless manufactured culture wars tedium.

It doesn't pay the bills or the mortgages, or set the price of petrol, or help struggling families.

Ah, but the Tories can come up with a clouded generalised fight against " Woke " without having to directly identify it or clarify it. It's also a lot easier to do that than dealing with the problems you just highlighted above.

 

[clapham_gull]

Another example then, opinions on Jewry.

It's a fact that there are those who consider themselves on the right (so to speak) side of everything, yet they've a fixation with racist thinking about UK Jews. There've been a couple on nsc from the left, they grandstand on all 'woke' issues, yet won't talk about Putin or the genocide of Uyghars, instead always a barely veiled hate of Jews.

This has grown, no doubt fueled by Facebook and Twatter.

@Harry Wilson's tackle works with academics who would consider themselves awaken, yet they won't discuss evil regimes they see as their enemies (US, West) enemies.

To me that's a hypocritical immoral compass. But I'd bet they go to bed at night smugly picturing themselves as awoken.

I think different. Not "woke" but a long history of left wing antisemitism. It was around at my University long before we'd even heard the word.

 

[Peteinblack]

In the context of unaffordable housing/slum landlords, boardroom/corporate greed, poverty wages, reliance on food banks and top-up welfare benefits for the millions of low-paid (in the 5th or 6th richest country in the world, apparently), threadbare public services, insufficient numbers of nurses, teachers, and police officers, accelerating climate change, and privatised water companies pumping raw sewage into our rivers and sea, the Right clearly need to manufacture 'Woke' in order to distract their (mainly) elderly, Daily Mail reading or perma-angry, Farage-worshipping, Red Wall electoral base.

Convince gullible people that the above issues are not serious problems, and instead that #MeToo, Extinction Rebellion, BLM, the BBC, Gary Lineker/Chris Packham, are the threats to civilisation or 'the British way of life', and you divert potential or actual anger away from the real problems, and those whose policies cause or exacerbate them. It's the Trump tactic of "owning the libs".

My sister-in-law, sadly, reads the Daily Mail online, and every time I see her, she'll be agitated about some nonsense she's read: "Pete, what about these trans activists/eco-warriors/militant feminists/anti-racist yobs/Lefty lawyers? It's terrible. Where will it end?" If I ask her about any of the issues I mention above, and say "Poverty/homelessness/decimated public services/widening inequality/global warming. They're terrible. Where will it end?", she just looks at me blankly as if I'm suddenly speaking a different language.

In the 1980s, social justice campaigners were branded 'Loony Left', in the 1990s they were ridiculed as 'politically correct', and today, they are derided as 'Woke'.

 

[El Presidente]

when did such meat and veg political issues become a matter for the "woke" tag.

When they become sidelined and trivialised by politicians and the media.

Yesterday’s lead story on the BBC news at 6 was about how a television presenter having to change his bank account.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Another example then, opinions on Jewry.

It's a fact that there are those who consider themselves on the right (so to speak) side of everything, yet they've a fixation with racist thinking about UK Jews. There've been a couple on nsc from the left, they grandstand on all 'woke' issues, yet won't talk about Putin or the genocide of Uyghars, instead always a barely veiled hate of Jews.

This has grown, no doubt fueled by Facebook and Twatter.

@Harry Wilson's tackle works with academics who would consider themselves awaken, yet they won't discuss evil regimes they see as their enemies (US, West) enemies.

To me that's a hypocritical immoral compass. But I'd bet they go to bed at night smugly picturing themselves as awoken.

To clarify, my (former) union passed only one local motion in all my time as a member, which was to boycott Israel. In a membership of over 1000, the vote was carried by about 15 votes (I think it was 8 against and 23 in favour). When I complained about this pettifogging tomfoolery I was told I could always raise a motion on something if I felt we should boycott, say, Iran or Russia. I considered it more appropriate to resign.

I haven't seen any unwillingness to criticize this that or the other. Simply too greater a readiness to allow Palestinians (the motion was proposed by a Palestinian lecturer in Palestinian studies) to chuck metaphorical rocks at Israel.

And I say that as someone who considers that Israel treats Palestinians badly. The wider problem is that Israel, even under the disgraceful Bibi, is somewhat less unpleasant than all of its neighbours. Try being gay in Syria or Iran.

I'm seeing the use of 'woke' now, as a euphemism for left wing extremism, to be as absurd as labeling anyone who *doesn't want to beat up homosexuals as being 'bi-curious'. In fact I may start this as a thing.

*or does. That would be better.

 

[beorhthelm]

When they become sidelined and trivialised by politicians and the media.

Yesterday’s lead story on the BBC news at 6 was about how a television presenter having to change his bank account.

trivialising and dumbing down of media is definatly a thing. what i sense though is "woke" becomes part of strawmen arguments, throwing it around just follows the media.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Look, I'm not posting this as some sort of Tory defence, because I'm not a Tory apologist, but just where do you get that from?

If any politician has been voting to "lower the NHS budget year on year" then they have been failing, as the NHS budget has been increasing year on year for a very long time, both before and during Tory rule.

Just type something like "NHS budget year by year" or "NHS budget year by year in real terms" and choose your site - The King's Fund, Statista or Nuffield Trust - they'll all tell you the same thing: NHS spending has continued to grow.

Now, that's not to say that NHS spending has been increasing by enough, as when you look at spending in terms of both population growth and population demographics (getting older), then it's a pretty easy argument to make that we've not been, and are not, spending enough.

But anyone who suggests NHS budgets have been reduced are just patently wrong.

Fair comment. NHS budgets haven't kept up with inflation. Staff retention is at an all time low.

 

[birthofanorange]

"No sympathy here. I remember in my day my mortgage rates went up to 15% and my repayments went up by £6.57 a month on my £23k house and we coped. If these young people just gave up their netflix subscription or didn't buy avocados then they'd be able to cope with these increases on their mortgages. It's their fault for over-committing and daring to dream of owning their own home. Idiots"

I could be mistaken, but I'm sure I've read sincere posts, like the above, almost verbatim, on NSC.

 

[pb21]

I think it will be a significant talking point, or at least I’ll be surprised if we don’t hear much about it. How much of an effect it will have I am not so sure.

We know, as it’s already happening, that the right-wing populist media keep banging the woke / 'PC gone mad' agenda and we know that the left-wing populist media keep banging back.

I expect the Tory party will tap in to this anti-woke sentiment/anger as they will need to energise their base as much as possible and to ward of any potential threat from the reform party / UKIP etc. that cohort isn’t going to be voting for Lib-Dem or Labour after all. They will need every possible vote.

 

[GT49er]

The thing about b) is that's mainly a debate that happens in University/Academically or within different interpretation of feminism.

It doesn't really affect 99% of the population, beyond the men who now have much nicer toilets at work.

Many of us urban types who are somewhat surrounded by "new ideas" generally ignore them. If you weren't a complete twat in the first place, it's business as usual.

There are quite a few NSC threads you appear to have missed, then!

And to address the OAP's original question, of course woke will be a factor - woke will vote Labour, Lib. Dem. or Green regardless (or won't vote at all because they believe all politics is corrupt anyway, or because no party matches their particular selection of beliefs). Woke won't vote Tory, end of - so between those two immoveable absolutes, yes, woke will indeed be a factor

 

[Peteinblack]

I could be mistaken, but I'm sure I've read sincere posts, like the above, almost verbatim, on NSC.

I've certainly seen such posts on social media, and, tragically, they have not been parodies or satire.

Amazing that some older people are convinced that a young person's struggle to save a deposit for a mortgage is because of their £10.99 pcm Netflix subscription, rather than their £1500+ monthly rent.

If they cancelled that Netflix subscription, they could save £30,000 for a deposit on a flat/house in 191 years!

 

[Colonel Mustard]

If wanting to be able to have an NHS dentist as was the case when I was a kid makes me woke, if wanting an education system that is accessible and affordable for people from a working class background makes me woke, if wanting an NHS that offers universal care for those sick and dying makes me woke, count me in and call me woken wokey.

None of those are so-called 'woke' issues. They’re about public spending levels.

 

[Peteinblack]

Tories should fight election on 'culture wars and trans debate', says new chief

Conservative Deputy Chairman Lee Anderson, who was promoted by Rishi Sunak last week, said the Tories would likely put a 'mix of culture wars and trans debate' at the heart of its general election offer

www.mirror.co.uk

The thoroughly unpleasant Deputy Chair of the Tories thinks it needs to be for them.to stand a chance.

Lee Anderson - a Pound Shop Norman Tebbit!

 

[Peteinblack]

The word that will get you out of any situation! | Fiona Katauskas

100% success guaranteed

www.theguardian.com

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

There are quite a few NSC threads you appear to have missed, then!

And to address the OAP's original question, of course woke will be a factor - woke will vote Labour, Lib. Dem. or Green regardless (or won't vote at all because they believe all politics is corrupt anywy, or because no party matches their particular selection of beliefs). Woke won't vote Tory, end of - so between those two immoveable absolutes, yes, woke will indeed be a factor

I'm not sure how true that is, bit of a sweeping generalisation.

Plenty of people think Some of the stuff labelled woke is utter nonsense, but will vote Labour/Lib Dems/green and I imagine vice versa.

There is a serious discussion around some of the issues raised, but there doesn't seem to be many grown ups in power to discuss them properly without insults thrown.