Is Pikey Racist?

[fatboy]

what?!! simply because you can't shout abusive expletives? whether 'pikey' is racist or not, some people find it offensive so why not just shut the f*** up. do you really find it that difficult to restrain yourself from shouting it? there are plenty of other things you could be chanting that won't offend anyone. its pricks like you that give football supporters a bad name.

I'll think you'll find that most things will offend at least someone.

 

[Thimble Keegan]

I see nothing wrong with "pikey". Although I would prefer to chant "peasants" at the Millwall following.

All our chants directed at them yesterday were very funny.

Albion & England forever.

Thimble Keegan
Worthing BHA

 

[Jameson]

I read the term Pikey is derived from the term "piker". This goes back 200+ years or so to the days of turnpikes on toll roads. The Pikers were travelling migrants who used to travel the country looking for work. So you could say this is the complete opposite of the sort of people I think some envisage when they use this expression?

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

You are taking the piss, I assume? You want swearing to disappear from football?

i don't think that's what i said. swearing and racism are separate. you could fill a chant full of swearing and it would only offend those sensitive to colourful language. at the same time, racist chants can be empty of words like 'f***ing...' and can simply be noises (as was the case in madrid recently) without losing any of their racial abuse.

 

[Schrödinger's Toad]

i don't think that's what i said. swearing and racism are separate. you could fill a chant full of swearing and it would only offend those sensitive to colourful language. at the same time, racist chants can be empty of words like 'f***ing...' and can simply be noises (as was the case in madrid recently) without losing any of their racial abuse.

You said: "some people find it offensive so why not just shut the f*** up" - plenty of people find swearing offensive, to varying degrees - is this such a different principle from what you were suggesting, of people singing about something that could be intrepreted as referring to a fairly dubious race?

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

'a fairly dubious race'. explain.

also, racist slurs are more persoanl: "you f***ing f***!" vs. "you lazy n****r"

 

[Yorkie]

Swearing is more to do with aggression and anger. It can be against anyone or anything. (ever sworn at your car for not starting)

Racism is personal because the person it is targetted at cannot do anything about their birth or family.

 

[Schrödinger's Toad]

'a fairly dubious race'. explain.

also, racist slurs are more persoanl: "you f***ing f***!" vs. "you lazy n****r"

I think there's a difference between real Romanys and people who choose to live in a caravan. If I take up residence in a field in my trailer, do I become a race?

Pikeys used in the context it was at Millwall is completely different from calling someone a "lazy n*****r". It is analogous to two black people calling each other "******" - that isn't racist, as rascism is dependent on context.

 

[DJ Leon]

Pikeys used in the context it was at Millwall is completely different from calling someone a "lazy n*****r". It is analogous to two black people calling each other "******" - that isn't racist, as rascism is dependent on context.

This argument was used earlier in the thread, I'm still not sure I understand it.

The word '******' is offensive to me, I don't care who uses it. If it is directed at an individual or a group, I don't think that it matters if there are any black people in that group. Context, I think has liitle to do with it.

I also find the word 'pikey' offensive. Many traveling people will not claim to part of a race, but many of them do and if they were called a 'pikey' in the street I think they might find it offensive.

Why do people need to find use of the word 'pikey'? If you think it's perfectly acceptable then I presume you have never been on the end of any public abuse about the way you look, or the way you live your life. If you had, maybe you just wouldn't use words like 'pikey'.

 

[Schrödinger's Toad]

The word '******' is offensive to me, I don't care who uses it. If it is directed at an individual or a group, I don't think that it matters if there are any black people in that group. Context, I think has liitle to do with it.

I also find the word 'pikey' offensive. Many traveling people will not claim to part of a race, but many of them do and if they were called a 'pikey' in the street I think they might find it offensive.

Why do people need to find use of the word 'pikey'? If you think it's perfectly acceptable then I presume you have never been on the end of any public abuse about the way you look, or the way you live your life. If you had, maybe you just wouldn't use words like 'pikey'.

One point at a time ...

1. Context is everything, but perhaps I wasn't clear - I was referring to the use of the term "******" as a marker of social inclusion, perhaps used like "brother" - i.e. the word itself is not offensive.

2. Fine, but the use of the word was not related to travellers at Millwall, see above point.

3. We're getting here into an arguement over it being wrong to call people names. I agree, but this is a part of life, good or bad - the name-calling at Millwall was in good humour (I'm certainly not going to moan because they called me gay!).

 

[fatboy]

Name calling is part of life whether you like it or not.

Why is some name calling acceptable and some isn't?

 

[DJ Leon]

One point at a time ...

1. Context is everything, but perhaps I wasn't clear - I was referring to the use of the term "******" as a marker of social inclusion, perhaps used like "brother" - i.e. the word itself is not offensive.

2. Fine, but the use of the word was not related to travellers at Millwall, see above point.

3. We're getting here into an arguement over it being wrong to call people names. I agree, but this is a part of life, good or bad - the name-calling at Millwall was in good humour (I'm certainly not going to moan because they called me gay!).

But only black people are allowed to use the word '******';they recliamed it for themselves. I think that unless a white person is speaking like we are, about such issues, then using the word ****** IS always offensive. The word 'Brother' has no offensive connotations whatsoever and surely can't be compared

On the third point, I think you're spot on. Call me a whimp but I don't much like name calling. It's all a bit childish. Like you, I wouldn't mind being called 'gay', but then again that word is so rarely used at football grounds. The word 'faggot' is. And yes, I find that offensive.

I remember going to a Fulham v Liverpool game by coach once (my best mate is a Fulham fan). One group of public schoolboy numpties spent the entire part of the trip in Liverpool abusing people from the coach about having no job, being poor, signing on etc etc. I was embarrassed. If that's the kind of thing people like at football matches then good for them. It's certainly not for me.

 

[DJ Leon]

Name calling is part of life whether you like it or not.

Why is some name calling acceptable and some isn't?

What name calling do you think is acceptable?

 

[fatboy]

I'm talking about my opinions but you don't see threads on here when fans call players wankers/fat/ginger/gay etc etc...

 

[Schrödinger's Toad]

But only black people are allowed to use the word '******';they recliamed it for themselves. I think that unless a white person is speaking like we are, about such issues, then using the word ****** IS always offensive. The word 'Brother' has no offensive connotations whatsoever and surely can't be compared

Agreed - I was talking about the word being used by and amongst black people to demonstrate that context is important, which is why I originally felt "pikey" was acceptable in context at the match.

 

[DJ Leon]

I'm talking about my opinions but you don't see threads on here when fans call players wankers/fat/ginger/gay etc etc...

Totally agree. But on this I'm consistent, I don't agree with calling players wankers/fat/gay etc.

People only do this this kind of thing from the terrace or behind a computer screen anyway. When Guy Butters was struggling out of the team and getting all manner of the abuse he did, I bet no-one said it to his face (well, no-one sane anyway).

I didn't even slag off David Lee. What's the point? Do people think he wasn't trying? What were people hoping to achieve?

 

[clapham_gull]

Slightly off topic but I read the other day that the history of Portsmouth calling Southampton the "scummers" precedes the football rivalry and goes back to when Southampton dockers were used as strike breakers against a dispute in the Portsmouth docks.

Is "didikais" a sussex expression - I grew up hearing it, but am looked at in disbelief when I discuss issues like this with Londoners.

 

[Yorkie]

Slightly off topic but I read the other day that the history of Portsmouth calling Southampton the "scummers" precedes the football rivalry and goes back to when Southampton dockers were used as strike breakers against a dispute in the Portsmouth docks.

Is "didikais" a sussex expression - I grew up hearing it, but am looked at in disbelief when I discuss issues like this with Londoners.

I heard the Southampton/Pompey rivalry was Merchant/Royal Navies.

Yes to didikais. I have only ever heard that in Sussex. I didn't know the word pikey except from football matches and Nsc until I moved back down south. It isn't used in Yorkshire (or at least the part I lived in)

 

[clapham_gull]

I heard the Southampton/Pompey rivalry was Merchant/Royal Navies.

Yes to didikais. I have only ever heard that in Sussex. I didn't know the word pikey except from football matches and Nsc until I moved back down south. It isn't used in Yorkshire (or at least the part I lived in)

I think that's also part of the story regarding Portsmouth and Southampton. "Scum" does always seem to have strike connatations. I read an interesting article but for the life of me can't remember where. Places our own little rivalry with Palace into historical insigificance.

You must have your own words up North, I got called some very strange things when I lived up North... bit like you I didn't find them offensive at first because I'd never heard them before !

It always makes me laugh when scousers refer to each other as "soft lad".

Does anybody know the origin of "scally" ?

 

[fatboy]

I heard the Southampton/Pompey rivalry was Merchant/Royal Navies.

Yes to didikais. I have only ever heard that in Sussex. I didn't know the word pikey except from football matches and Nsc until I moved back down south. It isn't used in Yorkshire (or at least the part I lived in)

Different parts of the country use different slang terms for things.

My girlfriend, from The Midlands, did not know what a chav was but that is a word we all use down here.

Totally agree. But on this I'm consistent, I don't agree with calling players wankers/fat/gay etc.

People only do this this kind of thing from the terrace or behind a computer screen anyway. When Guy Butters was struggling out of the team and getting all manner of the abuse he did, I bet no-one said it to his face (well, no-one sane anyway).

I didn't even slag off David Lee. What's the point? Do people think he wasn't trying? What were people hoping to achieve?

David Lee was a legend!

Abuse from the terrace is part and parcel of football though isn't it. It wouldn't be the same without it, and if the world goes completely PC then we will not have much in the way of comedy either.