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Interesting point made by Harty on Saturday



Point of information Mr Chairman........

First published on Thursday 06 May 2004:
Knight reveals Goldstone bombshell
by Andy Naylor

Albion chairman Dick Knight today revealed the shocking price still being paid by the club for the controversial sale of the Goldstone by the previous owners eight years ago.

The Seagulls have been warned by their auditors they face a hefty bill from the taxman arising from the sale of their former home if their new stadium at Falmer is rejected by Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott.

They have set aside £347,000 in the annual accounts, which show overall losses have more than doubled to a whopping £891,000 for the year ending June 2003 when they were relegated from the First Division.

The sale of the Goldstone in 1996 by Knight's predecessor Bill Archer left Albion liable for a Capital Gains tax charge. The new Board under Knight claimed roll-over tax relief, setting the costs of developing Withdean against the gain.

Although they were entitled to the relief, it does not entirely extinguish their tax liability and the relief is time limited.

The delay in resolving the Falmer planning application could mean the Inland Revenue will demand payment and Albion will almost certainly have to cough up if Prescott's verdict on the Public Inquiry into the new stadium goes against them.

Knight said: "It is bitterly ironic that, even after eight battling years, the sale of the Goldstone could come back to haunt this club. We will fight on and the message needs to go out to John Prescott.

"He must be in no doubt that the future of the Albion is in his hands. This club cannot survive indefinitely without our new stadium."

Albion's losses rocketed by £534,000 compared with the year ending June 2002. Overall income fell, in spite of promotion to Division One.

A further £267,000 was written off against the costs of developing Withdean Stadium and the club spent another £890,000 on the Falmer planning application and Public Inquiry, increasing the total spent on the scheme to £2.1 million.

Although Albion were playing against bigger clubs in the First Division, average attendances at Withdean were limited to 6,650, a tiny rise generating extra gate receipts of just £37,000 compared with the previous season in Division Two.

The problems caused by the restricted capacity at Withdean were made worse by dramatic losses in income following the collapse of ITV Digital and the re-negotiation of the Football League website deal with Premium TV.

Despite playing in Division One, overall turnover dropped by £113,000 to £4.77 million.

Knight said: "The figures demonstrate the stark reality of playing at Withdean. We entertained some of the largest clubs in the country in Division One, but we could not get any more people in to see them.

"Our gates were the same in Division Three. It is a lost opportunity and just shows how damaging this long, drawn-out fight for our new stadium is."

The figures will cause concern to supporters about the chances of surviving in Division One next season if Albion are promoted via the play-offs.

Martin Perry, Albion's chief executive, said: "At the Public Inquiry a number of objectors said that we should stay at Withdean. These figures show just how flawed that argument is.

"We are struggling to increase the capacity by just 2,000 more seats. To increase the capacity to a level where the club is a viable entity at Withdean is an impossible task."
 




Harty

New member
Jul 7, 2003
1,759
Sussex
DTG in answer to your original point a caller came on air and he stated we had £1.5million from the sale of Virgo and asked why wasn't that all going on players.
I replied that I had been led to believe, from a reliable source LI, that a large chunk (in excess of 70%) of that money had gone straight out of the door on general club expenses, and not player purchases. I added that people like the Inland Revenue have to be paid along with the VAT man because otherwise they get tired of waiting for their money and wind the club up.
 


The Auditor

New member
Sep 30, 2004
2,764
Villiers Terrace
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Interesting point made by Harty on Saturday

dave the gaffer said:
.

If people had asked questions a bit earlier about the Archer debacle perhaps we would have understood more quickly what was going on with finances then.


spot on....keep asking the questions....if people dont like it ..tough...
Dave, if you have questions that require answers email Martin Perry..you may or may not get the answers you require...in the past I have and so its always worth a try
 


Robert Lester Zamora said:
We are losing circa £1m per season at Withdean

and we lost approx £1.4m in our last year at the Goldstone (96-7).

so actually being at Withdean is not quite the financial millstone that it is portrayed as being.............
 






Stinky Kat

Tripping
Oct 27, 2004
3,382
Catsfield
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Interesting point made by Harty on Saturday

The Auditor said:
spot on....keep asking the questions....if people dont like it ..tough...
Dave, if you have questions that require answers email Martin Perry..you may or may not get the answers you require...in the past I have and so its always worth a try


:clap: Its not a conspiracy so why not ask questions. The club have nothing to hide
 


Harty said:
DTG in answer to your original point a caller came on air and he stated we had £1.5million from the sale of Virgo and asked why wasn't that all going on players.
I replied that I had been led to believe, from a reliable source LI, that a large chunk (in excess of 70%) of that money had gone straight out of the door on general club expenses, and not player purchases. I added that people like the Inland Revenue have to be paid along with the VAT man because otherwise they get tired of waiting for their money and wind the club up.

Fair enough, Harty - I didn't hear the phone-in as I was in Hull, if that was the context, then I was wrong to criticise you :)

I'm just going on your past "form" of being a bit ungenerous towards the current board and their financing of the team, but I know I should be more open-minded than that, naughty me! :D

What I still object to, though, is the presentation that it is somehow a "shock" or a "secret" that much of our transfer income is going on general expenses. This is the trap that Dave seems to fall into in this thread.

Any Albion fan who is surprised by this must have been living on the moon over the past ten years. We don't produce enough income at Withdean to keep even the meagre budget we have for second-tier football going - it is BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS we have to use most of our transfer cash for that.

All the on-the-record quotes from Dick Knight at the time of the transfers said McGhee would be getting some of the monies from them - if that's as high as 30 per cent, that's more than I thought it would be!

Whether you really needed secret sources in the club to confirm that Harty, I somewhat doubt :)

But your figure of 70 per cent is an interesting titbit of detail, I'll grant you that.
 
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Interesting point made by Harty on Saturday

dave the gaffer said:
If people had asked questions a bit earlier about the Archer debacle perhaps we would have understood more quickly what was going on with finances then.

To even mention the current regime in the same breath as Archer is ridiculous. End of.
 




The Auditor

New member
Sep 30, 2004
2,764
Villiers Terrace
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Interesting point made by Harty on Saturday

London Irish said:
To even mention the current regime in the same breath as Archer is ridiculous. End of.

Yes ...but....questions still need to be asked of the board as and when necessary....answers are generally given so we should not feel the need not to ask
 


Tooting Gull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
11,033
Come on LI. You may not want to ever hear about our financial plight, knowing it isn't great, but others do - believe it or not.

Yes, of course we all know the underlying causes - but if there is a new bit of information that makes it more urgent, or puts it in a starker/better light, we're all interested and belittling those who raise the issue is pointless.

If what Harty says is right about the Revenue looking to really make an example of a club because loads of them are behind on PAYE, that is very relevant not only to us but presumably to many other clubs.
 


Hunting 784561

New member
Jul 8, 2003
3,651
London Irish said:
Fair enough, Harty - I didn't hear the phone-in as I was in Hull, if that was the context, then I was wrong to criticise you :)

I'm just going on your past "form" of being a bit ungenerous towards the current board and their financing of the team, but I know I should be more open-minded than that, naughty me! :D

What I still object to, though, is the presentation that it is somehow a "shock" or a "secret" that much of our transfer income is going on general expenses. This is the trap that Dave seems to fall into in this thread.

Any Albion fan who is surprised by this must have been living on the moon over the past ten years. We don't produce enough income at Withdean to keep even the meagre budget we have for second-tier football going - it is BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS we have to use most of our transfer cash for that.

All the on-the-record quotes from Dick Knight at the time of the transfers said McGhee would be getting some of the monies from them - if that's as high as 30 per cent, that's more than I thought it would be!

Whether you really needed secret sources in the club to confirm that Harty, I somewhat doubt :)

But your figure of 70 per cent is an interesting titbet of detail, I'll grant you that.

I dont know how long you have supoported this club LI, my guess is not more than 5 years, but to those of us that know the past, there may be some residual mistrust of directors and their ilk, because of the way the club and its supporters have been systematically treated over the years. I'll never forget going to Wembley in 1983 and wondering why half of our end had been sold to Manchester Untd supporters (Bamber had sold the lower tier to Man U, allegedly ) . I also clearly remember the Lloyd/Bellotti/Archer years, where we were systematically lied to every step of the way.

For the record, I have every faith in DK and the the current board and am sure they will deliver on Falmer, but forgive those of us that have some history on these matters, because occaisonally some doubts or mistrust will creep in.
 
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Beach Hut

Brighton Bhuna Boy
Jul 5, 2003
72,223
Living In a Box
Does anyone know if we have purchased the South Stand seats so we can pre-season friendlies from next year ?
 
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Tooting Gull said:
If what Harty says is right about the Revenue looking to really make an example of a club because loads of them are behind on PAYE, that is very relevant not only to us but presumably to many other clubs.

But is that what is really happening ??? Why is this any different to what is happening over the past years? When has the Revenue ever let people off PAYE bills ??? I'm just struggling to see the "News" element of all this.
 


Tooting Gull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
11,033
I should have thought that was abundantly obvious. The Revenue have been letting football clubs get away with murder for years, when other companies would have had to pay much earlier/more regularly, or be wound up.

The news aspect is that they've had enough, and might be about to get tough, even if it is at the expense of a club with a century of history and thousands of fans in a high division. I, for one, completely buy that.
 




Smart Mart said:
I dont know how long you have supoported this club LI, my guess is not more than 5 years, but to those of us that know the past, there may be some residual mistrust of directors and their ilk, because of the way the club and its supporters have been systematically treated over the years. I'll never forget going to Wembley in 1983 and wondering why half of our end had been sold to Manchester Untd supporters (Bamber had sold the lower tier to Man U, allegedly ) . I also clearly remember the Lloyd/Bellotti/Archer years, where we were systematically lied to every step of the way.

For the record, I have every faith in DK and the the current board and am sure they will deliver on Falmer, but forgive those of us that have some history on these matters, because occaisonally some doubts or mistrust will creep in.

I've supported the club since the early ninties, sunshine, so keep your wild guesses to yourself.

I don't need any lectures from anyone about holding any kind of authority to account - I do it in every facet of my life from my involvment in campaigns to my work as a trade union rep. It just has to be done in an intelligent way so that you don't come across like the Japanese soldier still fighting in the Burmese jungle. Perhaps I should be more sympathetic to post-traumatic stress disorder types but the battles of the mid-nineties are over, move on, we are now in a constructive phase of the club's development and our energies should be focused on that, not on phantoms of the past.
 
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Tooting Gull said:
I should have thought that was abundantly obvious. The Revenue have been letting football clubs get away with murder for years, when other companies would have had to pay much earlier/more regularly, or be wound up.

I would want to see more evidence before buying that theory. Do you have any references and sources that can back up that this is what is happening? I will agree that it is "News" if it is true.
 


Smart Mart said:
Bullshit.

Thanks, what a waste of time it is replying to any of your posts.
 






Dover

Home at Last.
Oct 5, 2003
4,474
Brighton, United Kingdom
London Irish. Dover Athletic were the example of last year. The Vatman was about to place a winding up order on the club. Thier crime was that they forgot to pay the VAT on the hot food they sell at the ground.

If the club had to pay the money so be it. Dover managed to pay their bill through the generosity of fans, including many here, up and down the country. We, I belive cannot go round with collection buckets anymore, apart form helping other clubs in situations far worse than ours.

I for one belive that the directors of this club, with the present management have not only turned this club around, but mad it more stable than it has been in years.
 


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