Norman Baker suck my lozenge
New member
If i cycled up elm grove
i'd be breathing out my arsehole by the time i got to the top
i'd be breathing out my arsehole by the time i got to the top
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Inquiry Update
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 71,897
CrabtreeBHA said:
Absolutely. I think it needs nailing down exactly which set of constituents is PAYING for this sort of swill. Cos there's some (presumably) elected body somewhere on the anti-Falmer side of the chamber playing fast and loose with their Council Tax payers' monies. Irrespective of the eventual outcome of the Inquiry, some of the statements being issued by the NIMBYs have GOT to be verging on criminal misrepresentation. Certainly if I had the misfortune to fall within the catchment are of LDC, I'd have the Audit Commission on their case like a SHOT!
Gully
Monkey in a seagull suit.
Now I love cycling, just like the next man, but I live in Gloucester, that is about a 300 mile round trip, jeez I would need to leave home on Thursday and not make it back till the following Tuesday!!!
Kev the Ape
New member
Expect heavy traffic jams on the bypass because of these 11% cycling to the stadium. Do these nimbys know anythink?. 
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Lord Bracknell
On fire
hmmm ...
He didn't actually say that 11 per cent of Albion fans would cycle anywhere.
What he said was that 11 per cent of people in the Albion catchment area live within cycling distance of Sheepcote Valley. As opposed to there being 9 per cent of people in the Albion catchment area who live within cycling distance of Falmer. Which, according to Lewes DC, means that more people are likely to cycle to a stadium at Sheepcote Valley.
"Cycling distance" is 5 km (paragraph 78 of the government's Planning Policy Guidance Note on Transport, PPG13).
The Albion's transport consultant estimates that about 1 per cent of fans will cycle to games at Falmer and that 1 per cent will cycle to games if they were played at Sheepcote Valley.
The Lewes DC transport consultant's estimate is that 2 per cent of fans will cycle to Sheepcote Valley.
For what it's worth, the actual figure for Withdean is, apparently, 1 per cent.
All figures are rounded to the nearest whole number.
The Albion's transport consultant seems to take the view that 1 per cent of fans will cycle wherever the stadium is located and that the this figure doesn't vary significantly according to the distances involved. It's just a fact of life that a small number of people cycle and this needs to be taken into account when predicting travel patterns to stadiums.
The point of difference between the Albion and Lewes DC is that the Lewes consultant is saying that distance is a significant factor.
My view is that, on its own, the likely number of cyclists makes no practical difference in deciding which stadium is in a better location.
Walking, on the other hand, IS a significant factor - which we will hear more about as the Inquiry continues.
Incidentally, the Lewes DC transport consultant hasn't yet presented his evidence. It's available, however, on the Lewes DC website.
Both the Albion's transport consultant and Lewes DC's consultant have based their estimates on the numbers of people who live in particular areas within the overall Albion catchment area. Brighton & Hove City Council will present transport evidence which will make predictions based on the postcodes of actual Albion ticket holders on the Club's ticket database.
He didn't actually say that 11 per cent of Albion fans would cycle anywhere.
What he said was that 11 per cent of people in the Albion catchment area live within cycling distance of Sheepcote Valley. As opposed to there being 9 per cent of people in the Albion catchment area who live within cycling distance of Falmer. Which, according to Lewes DC, means that more people are likely to cycle to a stadium at Sheepcote Valley.
"Cycling distance" is 5 km (paragraph 78 of the government's Planning Policy Guidance Note on Transport, PPG13).
The Albion's transport consultant estimates that about 1 per cent of fans will cycle to games at Falmer and that 1 per cent will cycle to games if they were played at Sheepcote Valley.
The Lewes DC transport consultant's estimate is that 2 per cent of fans will cycle to Sheepcote Valley.
For what it's worth, the actual figure for Withdean is, apparently, 1 per cent.
All figures are rounded to the nearest whole number.
The Albion's transport consultant seems to take the view that 1 per cent of fans will cycle wherever the stadium is located and that the this figure doesn't vary significantly according to the distances involved. It's just a fact of life that a small number of people cycle and this needs to be taken into account when predicting travel patterns to stadiums.
The point of difference between the Albion and Lewes DC is that the Lewes consultant is saying that distance is a significant factor.
My view is that, on its own, the likely number of cyclists makes no practical difference in deciding which stadium is in a better location.
Walking, on the other hand, IS a significant factor - which we will hear more about as the Inquiry continues.
Incidentally, the Lewes DC transport consultant hasn't yet presented his evidence. It's available, however, on the Lewes DC website.
Both the Albion's transport consultant and Lewes DC's consultant have based their estimates on the numbers of people who live in particular areas within the overall Albion catchment area. Brighton & Hove City Council will present transport evidence which will make predictions based on the postcodes of actual Albion ticket holders on the Club's ticket database.
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Lord Bracknell
On fire
Bwian - my guess is that "some" cyclists will always get rounded up to 1 per cent.
Transport consultants like to reserve "0 per cent" for travel modes that simply won't happen - like travelling to Upper Beeding Cement Works by train.
Transport consultants like to reserve "0 per cent" for travel modes that simply won't happen - like travelling to Upper Beeding Cement Works by train.
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
What irritated me is how Mr White (the NIMBY lawyer) drew the conclusion that because Sheepcote has a catchment of 11% within cycing distance of a stadium there, compared with 8.8% within cycling distance of Falmer, this is then presented as a FACT to the Inspector that "therefore Sheepcote Valley is MORE accessible by bike than Falmer" - completely disregarding the more pertinent fact that only a miniscule percentage of people actually cycle anyway (1% as Lord B says).
It was a constant battle of twisting statistics to suit his own ends, whilst brushing under the carpet the more relevent facts of the situation.
It was a constant battle of twisting statistics to suit his own ends, whilst brushing under the carpet the more relevent facts of the situation.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
Indeed.Easy 10 said:
The most relevant statistic is that, at Falmer, there will be sustainable transport facilities available to 98 per cent of people attending matches (assuming that the car parking facilities that are available will be strictly controlled by the Club with a parking scheme that actively encourages car sharing - since no-one, apart from players, match officials, directors, staff, match sponsors and disabled people will be permitted to park in the car parks unless they can produce three travel vouchers on the day).
At Sheepcote Valley, where much of the on-street parking within walking distance of the ground (2 miles) is uncontrollable, sustainable transport facilities will only be available to 81 per cent of spectators - leaving more than 2,000 cars roaming the streets, looking for somewhere to park.
That key statistic demonstrates that Sheepcote Valley is less effective than Falmer in delivering a sustainable transport solution.
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Lady Bracknell
Handbag at Dawn
perseus said:
Yes, but that was 14 years ago. It'd be interesting to see what the situation is now.
Beach Hut
Brighton Bhuna Boy
I would cycle a lot more but for the fact I had my bike stolen from Shoreham station so get up earlier and walk.
Just out of interest where will the park and rides be for Falmer ?
Just out of interest where will the park and rides be for Falmer ?
The Large One
Who's Next?
No it wouldn't. Don't indulge him, please.roz said:
Anyway, even those figures would paint a distorted picture. There is little in common between the concept of cycling to work (something you do on your own), and cycling to a football match (where you may have to cart half your family with you.)
Lady Bracknell
Handbag at Dawn
The Large One said:No it wouldn't. Don't indulge him, please.
Anyway, even those figures would paint a distorted picture...
True. And agree that it's utter tosh to even think of applying statistics about cycling to work in the context of travelling to a football match. I was just interested in knowing whether providing cycle lanes and developing green travel to work plans etc., had actually had any effect at all when compared with the 1991 figures.
But instead of being lazy and opening another can of worms, best I go and check the statistics meself!
The Large One
Who's Next?
Up Horton's arse.Beach Hut said:
Sorry, very tired, and am off to bed shortly.
Lush
Mods' Pet
s.stubbs said:
The ONLY piece of evidence you need to explain why Sheepcote Valley is not suitable for cycling...
Falmer on the other hand is a fairly level cycle even from the centre of Brighton, surely
? Aren't there even cycle lanes up the Lewes Road for all the stoodents?
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The Large One
Who's Next?
Lush said:The ONLY piece of evidence you need to explain why Sheepcote Valley is not suitable for cycling...
Falmer on the other hand is a fairly level cycle even from the centre of Brighton, surely
Actually, Lewes Road is quite deceptive for the incline. I am guessing but I think the Falmer stadium site must be about 250-300 feet above sea level. But yes there are cycle routes.
And if you want to cycle to Sheepcote, you can cycle along the seafront. Unless of course, we are talking Sheepcote North, in which case - f*** that.
roz said:
When the 2001 figures are published we will know. I expect it will be less not for any relevant reason. It is just that people have to travel further to work nowadays. About five miles from the Goldstone, it was about the same time as the car or train. Level roads though.
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