Important: Reporting homophobic chanting

[Twinkle Toes]

Just like the annoying kid in the playground I'm sure we would have shut up about it eventually had we remained ignored. Unfortunately now we know that it actually upsets some people there is bound to be an element that will take encouragement from that and sing all the louder ...

Morning Sir Nige!

Actually, I think the vast majority of Albion fans who are fed up with the Homophobic abuse can distinguish between the "We can see you holding hands" type-chants you get within a ground & the nasty, aggressive vitriol that a minority of opposing supporters come out with on the other side of the turnstiles. I know there's often a fine line between what is 'banter' & 'abuse', but some of the shit that I've witnessed & been told about goes way beyond the realms of humour & decency. If anything, it's more about the inability/unwillingness of the Police to act on what they must see & hear. I hope I'm not wrong in thinking that even the vast majority of Palace fans - let alone supporters in general - would find such behaviour unacceptable & would be pleased to see these cretins banned from going within 20 miles of a football ground.

 

[Sir Nigel of Eagleshire]

Well, if that's what you think then obviously we'll have to leave it there, otherwise we'll just have an abusive row end up getting banned!

Ok any insult based on your race is as bad as any other in my book, otherwise there would be less offensive and more offensive terms and by definition racism would then stop being a right wrong argument and become subjective instead. That's all keep well .

 

[Sir Nigel of Eagleshire]

Morning Sir Nige!

Actually, I think the vast majority of Albion fans who are fed up with the Homophobic abuse can distinguish between the "We can see you holding hands" type-chants you get within a ground & the nasty, aggressive vitriol that a minority of opposing supporters come out with on the other side of the turnstiles. I know there's often a fine line between what is 'banter' & 'abuse', but some of the shit that I've witnessed & been told about goes way beyond the realms of humour & decency. If anything, it's more about the inability/unwillingness of the Police to act on what they must see & hear. I hope I'm not wrong in thinking that even the vast majority of Palace fans - let alone supporters in general - would find such behaviour unacceptable & would be pleased to see these cretins banned from going within 20 miles of a football ground.

Morning twinkle, I couldn't agree more, for the vast majority it's just a fun thing to sing, occasionally. For the pathetic minority it takes on a larger significance. If I or the guys I go to palace with witnessed any personal bullying or intimidation coming from a palace fan we would undoubtedly try to stop it.

 

[South Coast Eagle]

Morning twinkle, I couldn't agree more, for the vast majority it's just a fun thing to sing, occasionally. For the pathetic minority it takes on a larger significance. If I or the guys I go to palace with witnessed any personal bullying or intimidation coming from a palace fan we would undoubtedly try to stop it.

Spot on mate. There's a difference to having a sing song within the stadium but when you see 40+ year old hoolie throwbacks shouting in people's faces before or after the game in the street not only is it wrong but it's also bloody embarrassing.

 

[Twinkle Toes]

Spot on mate. There's a difference to having a sing song within the stadium but when you see 40+ year old hoolie throwbacks shouting in people's faces before or after the game in the street not only is it wrong but it's also bloody embarrassing.

Nice one guys. Quality posts & quality support from you both.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

I haven't read all these "homophobia" threads as the gay jibes/chants thing doesn't bother me in the slightest. Surely homophobic abuse can only be "abuse" if directed at homosexuals. If someone asked me "if my boyfriend knew I was here" it would be irrelevant, as I don't have a boyfriend. So if there are "gay" supporters that feel they are, genuinely, being abused, then complain. The rest just need to shrug it off as it is no more offensive than "pikey", "sheepshagger", "northern monkey" etc

 

[Barrel of Fun]

[yt]1270cn0YxSo[/yt]

An excellent video.

Barnes Rail.

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

I haven't read all these "homophobia" threads as the gay jibes/chants thing doesn't bother me in the slightest. Surely homophobic abuse can only be "abuse" if directed at homosexuals. If someone asked me "if my boyfriend knew I was here" it would be irrelevant, as I don't have a boyfriend. So if there are "gay" supporters that feel they are, genuinely, being abused, then complain. The rest just need to shrug it off as it is no more offensive than "pikey", "sheepshagger", "northern monkey" etc

Hmmm... By that logic you would have been happy witnessing all those thousands of Millwall fans a few years back grunting like monkeys at any visiting black players – simply because it wasn't being aimed at you?

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Hmmm... By that logic you would have been happy witnessing all those thousands of Millwall fans a few years back grunting like monkeys at any visiting black players – simply because it wasn't being aimed at you?

They had a visible target and there was no question where their abuse was being aimed, so totally unacceptable. The homophobic abuse isn't being targeted at individuals per se, but Brighton supporters generically.

 

[sydney]

laughable really as Brighton's gay community is made up of out of townies mostly isn't it...??

 

[portlock seagull]

He didn't say that... he said someone from Pakistan.

Is it still OK to talk about the Windies?

I know that, but I was referring to the fact some idiots using this gross insult against people from neighbouring countries too because they're perceived to be from Pakistan. And you knew that. Fool!

As for your other question, if you've an upset stomach, yes, I see no reason why not. But entirely up to you - just as it is to use whatever label for any group of people. Just don't be surprised if they clobber you for something they deem offensive. As I said previously, I'm just old fashioned. I like to use people's names. If I'm addressing a crowd of people, I usually start with Ladies and Gentlemen too This usually goes down a storm with people.

 

[portlock seagull]

I haven't read all these "homophobia" threads as the gay jibes/chants thing doesn't bother me in the slightest. Surely homophobic abuse can only be "abuse" if directed at homosexuals. If someone asked me "if my boyfriend knew I was here" it would be irrelevant, as I don't have a boyfriend. So if there are "gay" supporters that feel they are, genuinely, being abused, then complain. The rest just need to shrug it off as it is no more offensive than "pikey", "sheepshagger", "northern monkey" etc

Well, if you took the time to read them you'd discover not everyone shares your views. Try enlightening them! Education, education, education...

 

[m20gull]

I haven't read all these "homophobia" threads as the gay jibes/chants thing doesn't bother me in the slightest. Surely homophobic abuse can only be "abuse" if directed at homosexuals. If someone asked me "if my boyfriend knew I was here" it would be irrelevant, as I don't have a boyfriend. So if there are "gay" supporters that feel they are, genuinely, being abused, then complain. The rest just need to shrug it off as it is no more offensive than "pikey", "sheepshagger", "northern monkey" etc

They had a visible target and there was no question where their abuse was being aimed, so totally unacceptable. The homophobic abuse isn't being targeted at individuals per se, but Brighton supporters generically.

Something does not have to be directed at me to be offended by it; nor is it about targetting individuals.

 

[Turns to Stone]

Afternoon All, West Ham fan here. Was at the AMEX last Monday and thoroughly enjoyed my evening. Lovely new ground, just a shame about the manner of our victory.

Anyway, just for the record, I didn't get involved in the chanting, I prefer to think of myself as a little higher-brow when it comes to the gay stuff, but I do feel that there's a bit of a disctinction that's being missed here. Brighton fans have and will continue to use the 'Gayboy' tag as something of a self-deprecating nickname (if you want to think of it as such), in a similar fashion to Cardiff use the 'sheepshagger' nickname, Spurs the 'Yid Army' and West Ham 'the cockneyboys'. Opposition supporters have for years used these to attack the opposition verbally, regardless of how many 'homosexuals', 'jews', 'actual cockney's or 'gentlemen that actively seek the company of sheep' are actually within the crowd they are singing at. This to me is a big difference in the definition toward banter and abuse. Racial abuse to me is the singling out of individuals or a group of individuals and abusing them for their actual creed, colour, race, religion, sexuality. I would think about the treatment of Black footballers in the 80's, the treatment of Graeme Le Saux and our own dear Matty Taylor now who get grief up and down the country because they happen to fit the stereotype of a homosexual. I would also put in the treatment of Craig Bellamy that you guys handed out (although I do feel that the English/Welsh/Scottish thing is a whole other ball game) but more seriously was the sort of abuse that Mido received from Spurs fans a few years ago, not to mention the abuse that the same player recieved from certain West Ham fans when he was on the other side so to speak.

So to sum up, I personally feel that what went on last Monday and I would imagine goes on at the AMEX regularly (I certainly have heard it before at the Goldstone ground), was banter. I personally think that humour and jovial abuse is one my favourite parts of the football experience. I also think that we have to accept that times have changed, but I think if one club (be it Brighton or any other) was to begin a campaign of complaint against the sort of 'abuse' that went on last Monday, then it would set a pretty dangerous precedent across the country and pretty soon we will have a very different atmosphere to the one that we have now (which I already feel has been watered down hugely in recent times).

Anyway, I'll leave you all alone now. Hope you have a good season. That Craig Noone looks a cracking player, and any club that was once home to the living-legend that is Bobby Zamora is alright in my book. See you all in April for the return fixture...and please, be nice to us. Deep down, we're a decent bunch!

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Well, if you took the time to read them you'd discover not everyone shares your views. Try enlightening them! Education, education, education...

I was expressing a personal opinion and wouldn't expect everyone to share my views and am not looking to educate anyone. I apologise for not trawlling through every thread, I'm obviously not devoting enough time to NSC

 

[Turns to Stone]

I do know a couple of Pakistani guys who refer to themselves as Pakkis. I guess it's the same with the "N" word. It's OK to call yourself or your brothers by the "N" word if you're black, but not OK for anyone else. Double standards.

So what's the word for whitey that we can call each other, but if a person of colour used it it would be considered an insult?

Confusing. People are just too damn sensitive. As someone said on an earlier post, "Sticks and Stones".

It's the connotations of the word, Goldstone. Both the 'n' word and the term 'Pa*i' are names that traditionally have been used by White people to oppress and bully them. As you quite correctly ask - What's the difference between the term 'Pa*i' and the term 'Aussie'? The simple answer being that when Australians first arrived in this country, very few of them had their place of work attacked and 'Aussie' daubed on their front door. Sadly, the same can't be said to those who arrived from Pakistan.

As for the 'n' word, well, pretty much the same answer. I'm sure that in a few hundred years when 'Whites' have been used as slaves or attacked for their colour, they'll have their own name that they can use that no-one else is allowed to.

 

[portlock seagull]

I was expressing a personal opinion and wouldn't expect everyone to share my views and am not looking to educate anyone. I apologise for not trawlling through every thread, I'm obviously not devoting enough time to NSC

I don't think you should be educating anyone. I was talking about you educating yourself. Unless, of course, you're a bigot and don't do personal development. I don't know, you do however.

 

[Gilliver's Travels]

Afternoon All, West Ham fan here. Was at the AMEX last Monday and thoroughly enjoyed my evening. Lovely new ground, just a shame about the manner of our victory.

Anyway, just for the record, I didn't get involved in the chanting, I prefer to think of myself as a little higher-brow when it comes to the gay stuff, but I do feel that there's a bit of a disctinction that's being missed here. Brighton fans have and will continue to use the 'Gayboy' tag as something of a self-deprecating nickname (if you want to think of it as such), in a similar fashion to Cardiff use the 'sheepshagger' nickname, Spurs the 'Yid Army' and West Ham 'the cockneyboys'. Opposition supporters have for years used these to attack the opposition verbally, regardless of how many 'homosexuals', 'jews', 'actual cockney's or 'gentlemen that actively seek the company of sheep' are actually within the crowd they are singing at. This to me is a big difference in the definition toward banter and abuse. Racial abuse to me is the singling out of individuals or a group of individuals and abusing them for their actual creed, colour, race, religion, sexuality. I would think about the treatment of Black footballers in the 80's, the treatment of Graeme Le Saux and our own dear Matty Taylor now who get grief up and down the country because they happen to fit the stereotype of a homosexual. I would also put in the treatment of Craig Bellamy that you guys handed out (although I do feel that the English/Welsh/Scottish thing is a whole other ball game) but more seriously was the sort of abuse that Mido received from Spurs fans a few years ago, not to mention the abuse that the same player recieved from certain West Ham fans when he was on the other side so to speak.

So to sum up, I personally feel that what went on last Monday and I would imagine goes on at the AMEX regularly (I certainly have heard it before at the Goldstone ground), was banter. I personally think that humour and jovial abuse is one my favourite parts of the football experience. I also think that we have to accept that times have changed, but I think if one club (be it Brighton or any other) was to begin a campaign of complaint against the sort of 'abuse' that went on last Monday, then it would set a pretty dangerous precedent across the country and pretty soon we will have a very different atmosphere to the one that we have now (which I already feel has been watered down hugely in recent times).

Anyway, I'll leave you all alone now. Hope you have a good season. That Craig Noone looks a cracking player, and any club that was once home to the living-legend that is Bobby Zamora is alright in my book. See you all in April for the return fixture...and please, be nice to us. Deep down, we're a decent bunch!

Excellent post. And of course most clubs' fans are decent too. Because the demographics of football fans across the country are pretty consistent, unsurprisingly. Shame that ignorant, foulmouthed drunks - ours as well as yours - are the only ones you hear, wherever you go.

Wonder if Watford tonight will be any different? Someone said they once had an openly gay chairman. Must be just another urban myth...

 

[portlock seagull]

Afternoon All, West Ham fan here. Was at the AMEX last Monday and thoroughly enjoyed my evening. Lovely new ground, just a shame about the manner of our victory.

Anyway, just for the record, I didn't get involved in the chanting, I prefer to think of myself as a little higher-brow when it comes to the gay stuff, but I do feel that there's a bit of a disctinction that's being missed here. Brighton fans have and will continue to use the 'Gayboy' tag as something of a self-deprecating nickname (if you want to think of it as such), in a similar fashion to Cardiff use the 'sheepshagger' nickname, Spurs the 'Yid Army' and West Ham 'the cockneyboys'. Opposition supporters have for years used these to attack the opposition verbally, regardless of how many 'homosexuals', 'jews', 'actual cockney's or 'gentlemen that actively seek the company of sheep' are actually within the crowd they are singing at. This to me is a big difference in the definition toward banter and abuse. Racial abuse to me is the singling out of individuals or a group of individuals and abusing them for their actual creed, colour, race, religion, sexuality. I would think about the treatment of Black footballers in the 80's, the treatment of Graeme Le Saux and our own dear Matty Taylor now who get grief up and down the country because they happen to fit the stereotype of a homosexual. I would also put in the treatment of Craig Bellamy that you guys handed out (although I do feel that the English/Welsh/Scottish thing is a whole other ball game) but more seriously was the sort of abuse that Mido received from Spurs fans a few years ago, not to mention the abuse that the same player recieved from certain West Ham fans when he was on the other side so to speak.

So to sum up, I personally feel that what went on last Monday and I would imagine goes on at the AMEX regularly (I certainly have heard it before at the Goldstone ground), was banter. I personally think that humour and jovial abuse is one my favourite parts of the football experience. I also think that we have to accept that times have changed, but I think if one club (be it Brighton or any other) was to begin a campaign of complaint against the sort of 'abuse' that went on last Monday, then it would set a pretty dangerous precedent across the country and pretty soon we will have a very different atmosphere to the one that we have now (which I already feel has been watered down hugely in recent times).

Anyway, I'll leave you all alone now. Hope you have a good season. That Craig Noone looks a cracking player, and any club that was once home to the living-legend that is Bobby Zamora is alright in my book. See you all in April for the return fixture...and please, be nice to us. Deep down, we're a decent bunch!

"We" didn't "put in" any racial abuse to Craig Bellamy. Totally found not guilty by the FA, someone misheard sea-siders as sheepshaggers watching on TV. Of course, the Daily Mail didn't do a 2 page apology the following week so you probably never found that out.

What I would say is what's wrong with not chanting anything of this nature; then you don't risk banter being, rightly in some minds, deemed homophobic? Stick to supporting your team - as we all should do. Besides all those chants are just so lame and boring.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

Brighton fans have and will continue to use the 'Gayboy' tag as something of a self-deprecating nickname (if you want to think of it as such), in a similar fashion to Cardiff use the 'sheepshagger' nickname, Spurs the 'Yid Army' and West Ham 'the cockneyboys'. Opposition supporters have for years used these to attack the opposition verbally, regardless of how many 'homosexuals', 'jews', 'actual cockney's or 'gentlemen that actively seek the company of sheep' are actually within the crowd they are singing at. This to me is a big difference in the definition toward banter and abuse. Racial abuse to me is the singling out of individuals or a group of individuals and abusing them for their actual creed, colour, race, religion, sexuality. I would think about the treatment of Black footballers in the 80's, the treatment of Graeme Le Saux and our own dear Matty Taylor now who get grief up and down the country because they happen to fit the stereotype of a homosexual.

Their is a video for the Tottenham one as well

[yt]RIvJC1_hKt8[/yt]

We still love Bobby too