If the Referendum had been PR v FPTP

[clapham_gull]

You don't? So the winner isn't the winner? Sorry you've confused me.

New 'metaphor' ... 3 of the 4 judges on Shyte Factor vote for someone, one doesn't... do they go through? I think they do ... so new metaphor... panel voting as opposed to sport.

I'll stick with the criticism of the sporting one that the anti AV campaign used so successfully it seemed. Random sports people claiming that the winner was the winner, completely forgetting the point that no-one actually voted for them.

I'm sorry I can't see the link. The winner is still the winner under AV, it's just that the opinion as to "who is the winner" is collated slightly differently. The result not differing usually from FPTP but probably strengthens their mandate.

A better analogy (I think) is market research.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Can someone explain why there are somany wards inBrighton and hove and each has three cllrs

Because it has a population of 256,600 and the City Council has to run all of the services that are run by a County Council like West Sussex AND all of the services that are run by a District Council like Mid Sussex AND all of the services run by a Town Council like Burgess Hill.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

I'm making a wholly new link ... in fact an even better one than sport ... so people phone vote on one of these numerous phone vote crappy shows... who wins? The person with the most votes?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Because AV is just so ridiculous. Its such a mild change and makes hardly any difference and can lead to your 3rd or 4th choice candidate getting elected.

No. That's what First Past The Post delivers. Or at least it did for me today, when my fourth choice candidate was elected in my ward. The candidates I really wanted came nowhere.

In fact, the candidates that lost got almost four times as many votes as the guy who came first. Is that fair?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

As a matter of interest ... this AV v normal voting referendum... how did they decide the vote? Was it the majority that won? If so should the referendum not have been voted for on a AV/FPTP/PR referendum before they decided?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I'm making a wholly new link ... in fact an even better one than sport ... so people phone vote on one of these numerous phone vote crappy shows... who wins? The person with the most votes?

Again ... NO.

The voting goes through several rounds, spread over WEEKS. The bottom candidate is eliminated first. Then everyone votes again and the new bottom candidate is eliminated. And so on ... until there are just two left. The winner is the one who survives the process of elimination longest. Just like AV.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

So for example, X Factor is voted over many weeks, or the panels that vote them through are done over many weeks ... sorry I know X Factor is a shit analogy but the principle is the same ... the one with the most votes wins? Am I wrong?

 

[clapham_gull]

As a matter of interest ... this AV v normal voting referendum... how did they decide the vote? Was it the majority that won?

I'm sure you can work out that between two choices are guaranteed a tie or one getting more than 50%.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

So it was an FPTP referendum?

 

[clapham_gull]

So it was an FPTP referendum?

Look, I'm not particular sold on AV. I can't see it making any difference to be honest. But the no campaign old chestnuts of

1) It will be voted in by FPTP
2) "Hi, I'm David Gower and Sportsman come first..."

.. are a bit bloody thick.

I even heard one about a Mars Bar and a Twix, irrespective of people make compromises throughout their life and don't get to vote on most the choices they make or allow others to make for them.

 

[fataddick]

PR would have been defeated far more heavily than AV. The Pro-PR mob are morons. PR by its nature only works if you are electing 7+ candidates, so there would be no local accountability. No sane human would ever vote for PR. The best the electoral reform lot can hope for now is another vote on AV in around 20 years. Anyone who voted No to AV as they wanted PR has less braincells than the average cat turd.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Mate I couldn't care less either way, I'm just old school and to me the person that gets more votes than anyone else wins the race ... simple as. I don't even vote, I hate them all, they all have a deeper agenda than their public duties. It doesn't matter who you vote for they will all screw you. So long as I am earning decent wonga I couldn't care less if it was the Badger Friendly Party that ran our country. And maybe that makes me sound like a tory, errr or new Labour, errr or Coalition ... they all have the same amount of scruples ... add them up.

 

[clapham_gull]

I don't even vote, I hate them all, they all have a deeper agenda than their public duties.

Well we have something in common then...

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Must be our deep London cynicism!

 

[FlownWest]

this

I voted no but would have voted yes to pr. I feel that with a no vote you'll get another chance for it in 15- 20 years. with a yes vote the impetus would be to try it out for a few elections before even thinking of moving to pr. that would end up being 50 years.

Also I wanted the lib dems to get nothing from betraying their voters.

Sorry but why?

With the Lib Dems in freefall and no other nationwide threat to the Conservatives or Labour, we look like returning to a two party system for the foreseeable future. Both parties reluctantly entertained the idea of AV - what is ever going to make either of them propose let alone support PR?!

I agree that a yes vote in thursday's referendum would have seen AV tested for while and not been a 'stepping stone' some argue, but at least there would've been question marks over it. The electorate has emphatically voted in favour in FPTP, taking electoral reform completely off the agenda. Where as AV would have been under scrutiny from the parties that FPTP has served well over the last century (longer for the tories) as well as the PR supporting smaller parties, the referendum result has given the Conservatives and Labour a mandate to continue happily with FPTP for many years now.

Labour offered PR to the Lib Dems in their coaliton negotiations i read so i agree it will crop up again in a decades time

Labour were desperate after the election and allegedly offered the Lib Dems a PR REFERENDUM, safe in the knowledge that it would fail. Labour hate PR, and had there been a referendum on that both they and the Conservatives would have run it into the ground, much harder than the 'No to AV' campaign did.

This was our opportunity to change the electoral system and it was rejected.

 

[teaboy]

58% of the population DID NOT VOTE AT ALL. This is the biggest problem with democracy in this country. 29% voted No, 13% voted Yes.

If this shows anything about how the country feels about voting then we should just abolish elections altogether - it's what the people want.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

58% is a lot-deviating slightly how many people did NOT(but were entitled to) vote in Falmer's referendums 2 votes i wonder does this make Falmer acceptable or not, in line with this thread.

 

[DJ Leon]

Why do people keep using a sporting metaphor ? You don't vote to get someone over a finish line.

Because it propagates the idea that the the person with the most votes (the fastest runner) won't win. Of course this is possible under AV, but fairly unlikely. Nevertheless it's a scary thought so it's exploited.

 

[teaboy]

58% is a lot-deviating slightly how many people did NOT(but were entitled to) vote in Falmer's referendums 2 votes i wonder does this make Falmer acceptable or not, in line with this thread.

Acceptable, yes. Legitimate....

 

[DJ Leon]

You don't? So the winner isn't the winner? Sorry you've confused me.

New 'metaphor' ... 3 of the 4 judges on Shyte Factor vote for someone, one doesn't... do they go through? I think they do ... so new metaphor... panel voting as opposed to sport.

This is a case in point. This is WRONG. The singer with 3 out of 4 votes WILL go through because they have 50% of the vote.

You need a better example, one that doesn't paint a false picture of AV.