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ID Cards



Albion Dan

Banned
Jul 8, 2003
11,125
Peckham
Just got this as an email, is it scare mongering or reality? Doesnt sound good if true!

>VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS SO TAKE 5 MINS TO READ. This will effect
>you no matter what VERY SOON!!!???
>
>
>
>You may have heard that legislation creating compulsory ID Cards passed a crucial stage in the House of Commons. You may feel that ID cards are not something to worry about, since we already have Photo ID for our Passport and Driving License and an ID Card will be no different to that. What you have not been told is the full scope of this proposed ID Card, and what it will mean to you personally.

>The proposed ID Card will be different from any card you now hold. It will be connected to a database called the NIR, (National Identity Register)., where all of your personal details will be stored. This will include the unique number that will be issued to you, your fingerprints, a scan of the back of your eye, and your photograph. Your name, address and date of birth will also obviously be stored there.

There will be spaces on this database for your religion, residence status, and many other private and personal facts about you. There is unlimited space for every other detail of your life on the NIR database, which can be expanded by the Government with or without further Acts of Parliament.

>By itself, you might think that this register is harmless, but you would be wrong to come to this conclusion. This new card will be used to check your identity against your entry in the register in real time, whenever you present it to 'prove who you are'.

>Every place that sells alcohol or cigarettes, every post office, every pharmacy, and every Bank will have an NIR Card Terminal, (very much like the Chip and Pin Readers that are everywhere now) into which your card can be 'swiped' to
>check your identity. Each time this happens, a record is made at the NIR of the time and place that the Card was presented. This means for example, that there will be a government record of every time you withdraw more than £99 at your branch of Nat West, who now demand ID for these transactions. Every time you have to prove that you are over 18, your card will be swiped, and a record made at the NIR. Restaurants and off licenses will demand that your card is swiped so that each receipt shows that they sold alcohol to someone over 18, and that this was proved by the access to the NIR, indemnifying them from prosecution.
>
>Private businesses are going to be given access to the NIR Database. If you want to apply for a job, you will have to present your card for a swipe. If you want to apply for a London Underground Oyster Card, or a supermarket loyalty card, or a driving license you will have to present your ID Card for a swipe. The same goes for getting a telephone line or a mobile phone or an internet account.
>
>Oyster, DVLA, BT and Nectar (for example) all run very detailed databases of their own. They will be allowed access to the NIR, just as every other business will be. This means that each of these entities will be able to store your unique number in their database, and place all your travel, phone records, driving activities and detailed shopping habits under your unique NIR number.
>
These databases, which can easily fit on a storage device the size of your hand, will be sold to third parties either legally or illegally. It will then be possible for a non governmental entity to create a detailed dossier of all your activities. Certainly, the government will have clandestine access to all of them, meaning that they will have a complete record of all your movements, from how much and when you withdraw from your bank account to what medications you are taking, down to the level of what sort of bread
>you eat - all accessible via a single unique number in a central database.
>
>This is quite a significant leap from a simple ID Card that shows your name and face. Most people do not know that this is the true character and scope of the proposed ID Card. Whenever the details of how it will work are explained to them, they quickly change from being ambivalent towards it.
>
>The Government is going to compel you to enter your details into the NIR and to carry this card. If you and your children want to obtain or renew your passports, you will be forced to have your fingerprints taken and your eyes scanned for the NIR, and an ID Card will be issued to you wether you want one or not. If you refuse to be fingerprinted and eye scanned, you will not be able to get a passport. Your ID Card will, just like your passport, not be your property. The Home Secretary will have the right to
>revoke or suspend your ID at any time, meaning that you will not be able to withdraw money from your Bank Account, for example, or do anything that requires you to present your government issued ID Card.
>
>The arguments that have been put forwarded in favor of ID Cards can be easily disproved. ID Cards will not stop terrorists; every Spaniard has a compulsory ID Card as did the Madrid Bombers. ID Cards will not 'eliminate benefit fraud', which in any case, is small compared to the astronomical cost of this proposal, which will be measured in billions according to the LSE. This scheme exists solely to exert total surveillance and control over
>the ordinary free British Citizen, and it will line the pockets of the companies that will create the computer systems at the expense of your freedom, privacy and money.
>
>If you did not know the full scope of the proposed ID Card Scheme before and you are as unsettled as I am at what it really
>means to you, to this country and its way of life, I urge you to email or photocopy this and give it to your friends and colleagues. The Bill has proceeded to this stage due to the lack of accurate and complete information on this proposal being made public. Hand to hand, we can inform the entire nation if everyone who receives this passes it on. Please make sure you do this.
 










Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,403
The arse end of Hangleton
The good thing about this is that the Governments record for IT projects is appalling. They are unlikely to be able to pull a project of this size together so hopefully it will fall flat on it's face.

The bad thing is that of course ID cards are a tool for the government to track everyone - anybody that really believes that the government wouldn't use it for "other" purposes really is extemely gullible and probably believes Blair when he says you can't buy a peerage !!!!
 






Grendel

New member
Jul 28, 2005
3,251
Seaford
Albion Dan said:
This means for example, that there will be a government record of every time you withdraw more than £99 at your branch of Nat West, who now demand ID for these transactions.

Natwest didn't ask me for ID when I withdrew £250 from my account on Wednesday.

That aside, the rest of the article is speculation, conjecture and scaremongering about something that hasn't become law. Given that no-one genuinely knows what form ID cards will take if they do become compulsory, the article seems to be incredibly detailed - how does the author know that you'll require an ID card in order to get a Tesco clubcard, for instance? Why on earth would the government even take a passing interest in what sort of bread I buy?

In short, it's the biggest load of shite I've read today, surpassing even the Argus Lite I read on the train.
 


Albion Dan

Banned
Jul 8, 2003
11,125
Peckham
You dont see what the big deal is if you have to use your card for almost anything you buy, which the government will then use to track where you have been and what you have bought?
 




surrey jim

Not in Surrey
Aug 2, 2005
18,157
Bevendean
all well and good but hypothetically what if a foreigner goes into an off licence or resturant??? can they not serve them because they have not got a card??? if they dont serve them they will loose business, if they do then the card terminals will effectivly be pointless at shops/resturants
 


Billy the Fish

Technocrat
Oct 18, 2005
17,594
Haywards Heath
Hatterlovesbrighton said:
Just scaremongering.
I agree that at the moment it is probably just scaremongering, but have no doubt that in the future the government, be it labour or tory, will try to implement such a scheme. As Westdene says, our only saving grace at the moment is that any large scale IT project involving the public sector usually ends in a monumental f*** up.
 


METALMICKY

Well-known member
Jan 30, 2004
6,540
A scan of the back of your eye?.....................:p


With the glut of 'Greatest Ever' threads Albion Dan wins the 'Scaremongering' award by a country mile. A lot of that is pure speculation although undoubtedly it is of major concern to all of us as to what exactly will be on such cards IF they ever reach the light of day.

I work in the NHS and on the basis that the Govt can't coordinate a cental database for that, i don't think such a mammoth IT task will get off the ground.
 




Grendel

New member
Jul 28, 2005
3,251
Seaford
Albion Dan said:
You dont see what the big deal is if you have to use your card for almost anything you buy, which the government will then use to track where you have been and what you have bought?

It's a big worry - I can see some civil servant spending hours analysing my spending habits:

Monday 12th: 1 Spicy Curry Pot Noodle, 1/2 ounce Golden Virginia, 4 Cans Fosters.
Tuesday 13th: 1 Macaroni Cheese Ready Meal, 1/2 ounce Golden Virginia, 4 Cans Fosters.
Wednesday 14th: 1 Cheese and pickle sandwich, 1/2 ounce Golden Virginia, 4 Cans Fosters.

After keeping tabs on what I buy for several months, they'll know as much about my spending habits as the guy down the 24 hour petrol station knew in 5 days. Terrifying.
 


Curious Orange

Punxsatawney Phil
Jul 5, 2003
10,147
On NSC for over two decades...
A lot of you seem to have your heads stuck in the sand about this issue.

I object to ID cards as they would, A) be a waste of resources better spent elsewhere, B) because they are compulsory if you want to travel outside the UK, and C) because they are a basic infringement on my civil liberties. We live in a free country where we don't have to prove who we are at every turn, if this bill gets through, that WILL change.

The Government have convinced themselves that the country "wants" ID cards, probably in the same way that LDC convinced themselves that the people of Lewes District were against the Stadium. The reality is that most people are apathetic at best, and against it if it is going to cost them.
 
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chip

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
1,105
Glorious Goodwood
Curious Orange said:
A lot of you seem to have your heads stuck in the sand about this issue.

I object to ID cards as they would, A) be a waste of resources better spent elsewhere, B) because they are compulsory if you want to travel outside the UK, and C) because they are a basic infringement on my civil liberties. We live in a free country where we don't have to prove who we are at every turn, if this bill gets through, that WILL change.

The Government have convinced themselves that the country "wants" ID cards, probably in the same way that LDC convinced themselves that the people of Lewes District were against the Stadium. The reality is that most people are apathetic at best, and against it if it is going to cost them.


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I'd rather we had nurses and cleaners in our hospitals than a useless bit of plastic in my pocket.

Those who say this is scaremongering probably believed the weapons of mass distruction bullshit as well.
 


Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
Albion Dan said:
>The Government is going to compel you to enter your details into the NIR and to carry this card. If you and your children want to obtain or renew your passports, you will be forced to have your fingerprints taken and your eyes scanned for the NIR, and an ID Card will be issued to you wether you want one or not. If you refuse to be fingerprinted and eye scanned, you will not be able to get a passport. .

Like they will be able to get that together and not misplace half the info, if they even manage to sort out the equipment to do it.

Sending off for passports has a long delay at certain times, could they even begin to cope with scanning eyes and taking fingerprints of the whole population?

Scaremongering, but couldn't care less I'd run with it, it's not as if Big Brother doean't already have the wherewithall to find out whatever they want about me , if they so choose.
 


Curious Orange

Punxsatawney Phil
Jul 5, 2003
10,147
On NSC for over two decades...
Re: Re: ID Cards

Icy Gull said:
Scaremongering, but couldn't care less I'd run with it, it's not as if Big Brother doean't already have the wherewithall to find out whatever they want about me , if they so choose.

But do you want to pay an additional "£90" for a piece of plastic you didn't actually want or need just because you wanted to renew your passport?
 


British Bulldog

The great escape
Feb 6, 2006
10,967
Like we need ID cards anyway!

Just about anything we spend is being monitored by someone.

Every time my mobile contract is up for renewel there's allway's some twat ringing me up from some mobile co. or another!

And that goes for loans, insurance, and anything else I do!

Big Brother starting watching years ago.

Bloody stalkers!
 




Dandyman

In London village.
Curious Orange said:
A lot of you seem to have your heads stuck in the sand about this issue.

I object to ID cards as they would, A) be a waste of resources better spent elsewhere, B) because they are compulsory if you want to travel outside the UK, and C) because they are a basic infringement on my civil liberties. We live in a free country where we don't have to prove who we are at every turn, if this bill gets through, that WILL change.

The Government have convinced themselves that the country "wants" ID cards, probably in the same way that LDC convinced themselves that the people of Lewes District were against the Stadium. The reality is that most people are apathetic at best, and against it if it is going to cost them.

:clap: Well said, that man. One aspect of this whole 1984 scenario is that the Government are pretending that ID cards will be voluntary but in fact will demand that you get one if put in for a passport.
 


Gully

Monkey in a seagull suit.
Apr 24, 2004
16,812
Way out west
Am I the only person who thinks the protests when the Government tries to introduce ID cards will make those surrounding the poll tax look like a minor scuffle outside a pub on a Saturday night.
 


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