Ian Westlake !! Hearing raving things about him in this loan spell ?

[billy_bremner]

Dave ,

Yes there is this certain honeymoon factor about playing in the lower leagues for us but It won't last for long as it's because of the fact that we seem to provide cup finals wherever we go in the championship and league 1 !! But the longer we stay here , the lesser our brand value and the sooner our honeymoon period ends.

But yes , I would say that some of us have sensed this genuine side of the lower leagues. The proper old school system is followed here with the transfers , games , banter off and on the pitch etc ... But you will feel all those things only when you are winning !

The upside of relegation was the coming together of die hard fans while the glory hunters left us behind ! But there are just way too many downsides to it . The longer you stay here IMO , the more of a history you become than a priceless enigma !

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Dave ,

Yes there is this certain honeymoon factor about playing in the lower leagues for us but It won't last for long as it's because of the fact that we seem to provide cup finals wherever we go in the championship and league 1 !! But the longer we stay here , the lesser our brand value and the sooner our honeymoon period ends.

But yes , I would say that some of us have sensed this genuine side of the lower leagues. The proper old school system is followed here with the transfers , games , banter off and on the pitch etc ... But you will feel all those things only when you are winning !

The upside of relegation was the coming together of die hard fans while the glory hunters left us behind ! But there are just way too many downsides to it . The longer you stay here IMO , the more of a history you become than a priceless enigma !

Its really strange this phenomena. I have family who are Huddersfield fans ( being Hudds born and bred myself) and talking with them and fans of other clubs, the general consensus is that the Premiership is now almost unattainable for the average side ( and the parachute payments make that doubley so with a breed of yoyo clubs coming through - West Brom, Sunderland etc) and even the Championship is becoming almost a second tier of the Premiership - especially the top 10.

I suppose we must all attempt to achieve what we can withing the financial constraints of our position, BUT I think teams like Leeds were carried along with the wave of expectation of being in the Premiership and having a Champions League run which led to sub standard players and overpriced contracts being given to satisfy that demand, irrespective of the consequences ( Fowler and Kewell being the obvious examples).

I think lower league clubs who almost all to a man are tetering on the brink have leerned the hard lesson a while ago that Leeds and Leicester and teams like that are coming to terms with.

Personally the Premiership has no interest to me as a saturday afternoon fan, yes its good that we have teams in the CL and doing well, but they are so far removed from the likes of you and I almost to be irrelevant.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Ken Bates led bid was the best by a country mile, paying non football creditors 35% of their debt, a 3500% increase on the first bid.

I think you meant to type HIS, there?

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

I think the best "by a country mile" is to pay everything to the people you owe money to. Not sure I'd be bigging up Ken for paying people 35p in the pound.

 

[El Presidente]

Isn't the 35p in the pound dependent on Leeds getting back into the Premiership in the next few years, or is it an unconditional deal?

More importantly BB, how is Seb playing? He never really came off for us, whilst it was clear he was a talented winger, under Mark McGhee and our workmanlike approach he became a luxury we could not afford, as we concentrated on grinding out results to avoid relegation. It was a shame, as he clearly had talent, and is the type of player that fans enjoy watching (although he also frustrates by trying to beat one too many defenders).

Out of interest, what did you think of Harding? I thought that one of the reasons why he was sold was to avoid paying us the appearance money, so that the fee was more like £400,000, but not sure how things ended up when he was sold. I recall Carole gave him the runaround when we drew 3-3 at Elland Road when we played there, no doubt contributing to Leeds signing Seb at the end of that season.

As for Westy, he has had a mixed impact to date, at times he looks a bit lost, (especially at Carlisle), but has looked match fit in the last two games against Walsall and Donny. I can see the wheels coming off for us if he goes to an extent, as he does give an extra dimension to one of our problem positions, but from your perspective he has helped take points off two other promotion chasing sides in Donny and Walsall, and played himself back into contention at the end of the loan spell. I suspect we cannot match the wages you are paying, so there is little/no chance of us signing him.

 

[billy_bremner]

Its really strange this phenomena. I have family who are Huddersfield fans ( being Hudds born and bred myself) and talking with them and fans of other clubs, the general consensus is that the Premiership is now almost unattainable for the average side ( and the parachute payments make that doubley so with a breed of yoyo clubs coming through - West Brom, Sunderland etc) and even the Championship is becoming almost a second tier of the Premiership - especially the top 10.

I suppose we must all attempt to achieve what we can withing the financial constraints of our position, BUT I think teams like Leeds were carried along with the wave of expectation of being in the Premiership and having a Champions League run which led to sub standard players and overpriced contracts being given to satisfy that demand, irrespective of the consequences ( Fowler and Kewell being the obvious examples).

I think lower league clubs who almost all to a man are tetering on the brink have leerned the hard lesson a while ago that Leeds and Leicester and teams like that are coming to terms with.

Personally the Premiership has no interest to me as a saturday afternoon fan, yes its good that we have teams in the CL and doing well, but they are so far removed from the likes of you and I almost to be irrelevant.

The premiership is indeed losing it's relevance but I don't agree about the championship though ! You have Bristol City , Plymouth and Hull City in the top 6 while Southampton , Preston etc in the bottom ! That shows how level a field that league has become. Championship is definitely an open league , as much as league 1 , so I would not include it in the same bracket as premiership !

I think that the average club can still make it to the premiership but the frequency of that happening will be far lesser than what it was . You have big businessmen looking at the likes of QPR , that really shows the potential for all the clubs in the championship and the leagues below it !

 

[billy_bremner]

I think the best "by a country mile" is to pay everything to the people you owe money to. Not sure I'd be bigging up Ken for paying people 35p in the pound.

Im not bigging him up ! I absolutely despise him . But I'm just saying that , since we were forced into administration ( FORCED is the right word ) , the offer Bates came up with has been far better than what any club had to offer when they went through the same thing . So I really don't see why we are looked upon like as if we stole something. The HMRC didn't grant us enough time to pay their bills and came up with an harsh winding up order with no evaluation time ! They almost got our club killed this summer and we had to pay for the mistakes of the HMRC and KPMG !

This whole story is a complicated one , I could refer you on to a proper write up ( if you want ) that will explain the real picture ( why many think we stand a good chance of getting back some points ! ) ...

 

[billy_bremner]

Isn't the 35p in the pound dependent on Leeds getting back into the Premiership in the next few years, or is it an unconditional deal?

More importantly BB, how is Seb playing? He never really came off for us, whilst it was clear he was a talented winger, under Mark McGhee and our workmanlike approach he became a luxury we could not afford, as we concentrated on grinding out results to avoid relegation. It was a shame, as he clearly had talent, and is the type of player that fans enjoy watching (although he also frustrates by trying to beat one too many defenders).

Out of interest, what did you think of Harding? I thought that one of the reasons why he was sold was to avoid paying us the appearance money, so that the fee was more like £400,000, but not sure how things ended up when he was sold. I recall Carole gave him the runaround when we drew 3-3 at Elland Road when we played there, no doubt contributing to Leeds signing Seb at the end of that season.

As for Westy, he has had a mixed impact to date, at times he looks a bit lost, (especially at Carlisle), but has looked match fit in the last two games against Walsall and Donny. I can see the wheels coming off for us if he goes to an extent, as he does give an extra dimension to one of our problem positions, but from your perspective he has helped take points off two other promotion chasing sides in Donny and Walsall, and played himself back into contention at the end of the loan spell. I suspect we cannot match the wages you are paying, so there is little/no chance of us signing him.

I Think you summed up Carole well ! Good but frustrating ! He could never really carry the burden of our out and out winger when we first signed him and that really killed our season because we ended up playing Healy and Blake in the wings !

But then Wise came in , took him to a side and gave him a good bollocking and a second chance. Carole grabbed it with both hands is now one of the league's leaders in assists ! The talent is obviously there but he is just not consistent enough and does not have the instincts of a proper winger ! More like a 2nd striker playing out wide .. Like a typical European winger , he does not beat his man to cross the ball ! He beats his man and beats around the bush !! .. Still , he has been a key player for us this season and has a huge role to play yet.

and Yes , after Seb torched Harding , Ken Bates told Blackwell to think about signing him ! As for Harding , I personally rated the lad and wanted him to do well here but the leeds fans were not patient . He could not take the pressure of playing in front of 30k and it took time for him to make that step up ! But as a youngster , he deserved some faith but Blackwell , the idiot , sold him for peanuts ! Harding was always gonna come good , just a matter of him settling down and maturing as a player. He was another one of the reasons why we got relegated as we missed a good left back that season !

 

[Lady Whistledown]

The premiership is indeed losing it's relevance but I don't agree about the championship though ! You have Bristol City , Plymouth and Hull City in the top 6 while Southampton , Preston etc in the bottom ! That shows how level a field that league has become. Championship is definitely an open league , as much as league 1 , so I would not include it in the same bracket as premiership !

I think that the average club can still make it to the premiership but the frequency of that happening will be far lesser than what it was . You have big businessmen looking at the likes of QPR , that really shows the potential for all the clubs in the championship and the leagues below it !

Right now, there's a decent possibility of three from Bristol City, Stoke, Plymouth Argyle or Hull being in the Premiership next season, while at the same time having Newcastle in the Championship, and Sheffield Wednesday, Forest, Leeds, Southampton and Coventry in League One.

It's what makes football so interesting

Westlife nutmegging the Doncaster player and sprinting off into the distance with the ball was the highlight of my weekend by the way

 

[The Large One]

But if they think we want him then the price ticket will go up proportionately.

Not necessarily. I also depends on whether he features in their plans.

Look, for instance at Glenn Murray. Rochdale seriously wanted to keep him, and his figure rose accordingly, until we made an offer they couldn't refuse. In that case, you're right.

If, however, it's evident that Westlake wants to come here, and he doesn't feature in McAllister's plans (he is out on loan, after all) Leeds would ultimately be keeping a player who doesn't really want to be there. Logically, they'd be happy enough to offload him - and, let's face it, which club wants to keep a player who wants - and can - play for someone else?

 

[Icy Gull]

Is there a link anywhere to Westlake saying that he wants to stay here or is this NSC rumourmongering?

 

[Perry Milkins]

Not necessarily. I also depends on whether he features in their plans.

Look, for instance at Glenn Murray. Rochdale seriously wanted to keep him, and his figure rose accordingly, until we made an offer they couldn't refuse. In that case, you're right.

If, however, it's evident that Westlake wants to come here, and he doesn't feature in McAllister's plans (he is out on loan, after all) Leeds would ultimately be keeping a player who doesn't really want to be there. Logically, they'd be happy enough to offload him - and, let's face it, which club wants to keep a player who wants - and can - play for someone else?

You have not considered the fact that the sale/price of Westlake will be down to one Ken Bates and not McAllister.

 

[Simster]

Not necessarily. I also depends on whether he features in their plans.

Look, for instance at Glenn Murray. Rochdale seriously wanted to keep him, and his figure rose accordingly, until we made an offer they couldn't refuse. In that case, you're right.

If, however, it's evident that Westlake wants to come here, and he doesn't feature in McAllister's plans (he is out on loan, after all) Leeds would ultimately be keeping a player who doesn't really want to be there. Logically, they'd be happy enough to offload him - and, let's face it, which club wants to keep a player who wants - and can - play for someone else?

It also depends on other potential buyers. Westlake is getting rave reviews down here and he wants away from Leeds (which is not a surprise, given their recent board room/managerial record). However, if we agreed £200k and then a club like Norwich, Wolves or Stoke came in and offered a bit more, then we'd be priced out.

Personally I think we have to face facts that Westlake is unlikely to end up here as our player. He's too good to be playing in front of 6,300 and deserves a lot better. Let's just hope he continues to be a massive help in the short term.

 

[The Large One]

You have not considered the fact that the sale/price of Westlake will be down to one Ken Bates and not McAllister.

True enough. With him, he might want £3m, or he might let us have him for £150,000. You can't tell with that headcase.

It also depends on other potential buyers. Westlake is getting rave reviews down here and he wants away from Leeds (which is not a surprise, given their recent board room/managerial record). However, if we agreed £200k and then a club like Norwich, Wolves or Stoke came in and offered a bit more, then we'd be priced out.

Personally I think we have to face facts that Westlake is unlikely to end up here as our player. He's too good to be playing in front of 6,300 and deserves a lot better. Let's just hope he continues to be a massive help in the short term.

Again, fair point. However, there does apparently appear to be a slight Nicky Forster-type scenario in this instance - his family is down here (south, rather than Sussex, as I understand it - could be wrong).

I agree it's going to be tricky. I guess in order to improve our chances of keeping him, it's for us (the club AND the fans) to make him want to stay here. Plus, being Falmer-bound does appear to be having at least a small effect...

 

[Titanic]

Is there a link anywhere to Westlake saying that he wants to stay here or is this NSC rumourmongering?

I think the 'speculation' is based on Phil's comments on the SCR phone-in, saying that he had spoken to him after the game and he was 'loving it and would like to come here permanently' (or something like that).

BTW Phil's was the best call I've heard on the phone-in for absolutely ages.

 

[Squareball]

Another sensible Leeds fan here (were not all ****s)
Im pleased Westlake is doing well for you - it seems like he has found his level - ie looking good in this league, he's not good enough for Leeds (never was never will be) yes we are in the shite leagues for now but he isnt a leeds player
If he loves it there then he can f*** off and stay there

 

[Titanic]

Another sensible Leeds fan here (were not all ****s)
Im pleased Westlake is doing well for you - it seems like he has found his level - ie looking good in this league, he's not good enough for Leeds (never was never will be) yes we are in the shite leagues for now but he isnt a leeds player
If he loves it there then he can f*** off and stay there

Thank you - perhaps you could tell Mr Bates and his agent that... it might just swing it for us.

 

[Squareball]

Thank you - perhaps you could tell Mr Bates and his agent that... it might just swing it for us.

Oh I wish

 

[Simster]

yes we are in the shite leagues for now but he isnt a leeds player
If he loves it there then he can f*** off and stay there

You must just have loads of quality players just ITCHING to play for you with that attitude.

Come on to Leeds. We're MASSIVE. We're Champions of Europe you know. Look at us in Division THREE with Cheltenham Town but with 22,000 crowds. Mind you, play shit and we'll get on your back (even if the bloke in charge is a dwarf cretin and plays you out of position)

But far be it from me to mock your opinion, what with Leeds having got everything right in the past 3 or 4 years.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Another sensible Leeds fan here (were not all ****s)