I just want to watch football, now I have to cconsider my Albion supporter "aspirations"

[HastingsSeagull]

Well my Budget is that I'm not going to pay to join any scheme, considering that I don't believe we will sell out the majority of games next season, there shouldn't be any reason why I can't get a ticket now and again.

very much this!

 

[TSB]

Just over a week ago, I wrote on the 'gutted' thread that many things around our club would be changing the next few weeks. I said some would be popular with many and an ambivalence to others and some were real fundamental issues that would be all down to the handling as to how people would perceive them.

This was one of the former....... And it's been handled appallingly. I can only assume that the latter, when it does happen, will start a binfest that will render NSC in turmoil for months. Interestingly, many have highlighted the thing that could be impacted by the latter, in this thread, as an example that we haven't (yet) lost our soul.

That is one scary scary message, especially coming from a poster as well-know as you, ROSM.
Am not looking forward to the latter announcement(s)

 

[Pevenseagull]

Have I got this right?

I pay money so I can pay money

If I pay more money my money is better than the money paid by the people who paid less money to pay money

Sounds par for the course

Personally, I shan't be paying money for the right to pay money

That is my choice, I am not aspirant

 

[ngood77]

I just want to watch football, now I have to cconsider my Albion supporter "asp

Have I got this right?

I pay money so I can pay money

If I pay more money my money is better than the money paid by the people who paid less money to pay money

Sounds par for the course

Personally, I shan't be paying money for the right to pay money

That is my choice, I am not aspirant

Three cheers for capitalism.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I don't think you'll need to miss them: that's exactly what will happen for the overwhelming majority of games next season.

So far be it to suggest that people just ignore this hare-brained, irrevelent and mildly irritating scheme and it will die through lack of interest. Ahem.

People are sheep though - look at the red scarves thing at Cardiff. I expect I'll end up paying for this, probably not because I'm scared of getting a ticket, or that I want to make the big cup game, but because I care about where I sit. I'll get to a couple of games next season max, and I don't want to be stuck down in the South right next to the away fans. I want to do what I usually do which is get online as soon as tickets are available and pick up a couple of decent West Lower seats for me and my Dad. It seems the only way I can do that is to pay £30 a head in advance (meaning my match day ticket could effectively be £45-£60 a game. Ouch. and it will probably be Doncaster). Thanks Barber.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Just over a week ago, I wrote on the 'gutted' thread that many things around our club would be changing the next few weeks. I said some would be popular with many and an ambivalence to others and some were real fundamental issues that would be all down to the handling as to how people would perceive them.

This was one of the former....... And it's been handled appallingly. I can only assume that the latter, when it does happen, will start a binfest that will render NSC in turmoil for months. Interestingly, many have highlighted the thing that could be impacted by the latter, in this thread, as an example that we haven't (yet) lost our soul.

Oh well that is fun. Cryptic as well. "the thing highlighted in this thread that could be impacted as an example that we haven't (yet) lost our soul." Massive cuts to AITC I wonder?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Massive cuts to AITC I wonder?

I'm starting to think that the whole AITC stuff and the self-styled community stadium were just sweeteners for the planning application. Now we have got all the stadium up and running and been granted full permission for 30k these elements of the club seem to be diminishing rapidly.

I'm with Hamilton on this one. We have the chance to be something a bit different which would be totally in keeping with our fine city.

 

[Bold Seagull]

http://www.seagulls.co.uk/news/article/membership-faqs-856145.aspx

Some more details / answers from the club... seems pretty reasonable to me

Barber in?

Seems fair to me.

And me. Seems a more inclusive scheme rather than exclusive.

 

[luge]

And me. Seems a more inclusive scheme rather than exclusive.

I'm not sure what the problem is. Plenty of other teams run these schemes... over time I've been to watch a fair few other clubs play and got tickets to a mediocre match without paying. But if I wanted to see a big club there you'd have to be a priority member.

As for people whinging about loyalty points - i collated 80 in the first season at the amex, which was reduced by over half for the start of last season (although as a new ST holder I had an extra 1000 to go on top of that). If you;ve collated loads this season, it isn't going to matter much after game two next year.

Yes the whole thing is a money making exercise, but it's not tonnes. And in anycase, it's hardly going to matter too much whilst we are in the championship. It'll come into play if and when we get into the premier league when the world and his wife wants tickets.

The sending out of a smart card is a great idea too.

 

[rouseytastic]

It sounds to me as though the club were banking 100% on getting to the Premier League next season and with that was going to be a further increase in ticket prices, (over and above the current increase which should have been enough as we would have been playing less games and as such paying more per game.......) and this 'membership' nonsense is basically their way of banking that increased revenue. It's all a bit shady in my opinion. This is effectively an increase in match day/away ticket prices however you look at it just dressed up as some shiney new way to support the Albion.
If the club are this badly in need of money despite the highest ticket prices in the league already, concourse jumble sales selling everything from Vicentes pants to El Abd's scalp wax, programme price increases, food price increases, paid Mascots etc etc then perhaps we need a statement letting us know whats going on.

It all sounds very desperate cap in hand stuff, one thing after another, and i am certainly concerned about the financial position of the Albion

 

[teaboy]

I'm not sure what the problem is. Plenty of other teams run these schemes... over time I've been to watch a fair few other clubs play and got tickets to a mediocre match without paying. But if I wanted to see a big club there you'd have to be a priority member.

As for people whinging about loyalty points - i collated 80 in the first season at the amex, which was reduced by over half for the start of last season (although as a new ST holder I had an extra 1000 to go on top of that). If you;ve collated loads this season, it isn't going to matter much after game two next year.

Yes the whole thing is a money making exercise, but it's not tonnes. And in anycase, it's hardly going to matter too much whilst we are in the championship. It'll come into play if and when we get into the premier league when the world and his wife wants tickets.

The sending out of a smart card is a great idea too.

The problem is the fundamental idea that you can buy loyalty without being loyal. If I want to be seen by the club as loyal to the club I can pay £30 a year to get priority tickets. I don't need to ever go to a game, but the club will value me as a 'better' supporter/customer than someone who doesn't pay the £30 but attends every game as a non-STH.

This is just wrong.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The problem is the fundamental idea that you can buy loyalty without being loyal. If I want to be seen by the club as loyal to the club I can pay £30 a year to get priority tickets. I don't need to ever go to a game, but the club will value me as a 'better' supporter/customer than someone who doesn't pay the £30 but attends every game as a non-STH.

This is just wrong.

This. Welcome to the world of The Demon Barber.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The problem is the fundamental idea that you can buy loyalty without being loyal. If I want to be seen by the club as loyal to the club I can pay £30 a year to get priority tickets. I don't need to ever go to a game, but the club will value me as a 'better' supporter/customer than someone who doesn't pay the £30 but attends every game as a non-STH.

This is just wrong.

This. Welcome to the world of The Demon Barber.

But the flip side of that is that we have 5000 seats or so that need to be sold to non season ticket holders. I am sure there are many of these supporters who buy tickets regularly who feel isolated on the current loyalty system whereby when it comes to high demand tickets, they are in the same boat as the supporters who never go to any games. By offering a £10 - £30 annual membership will the 5-10 game fan, or one who does mostly away games, not feel at a bit more of an advantage over those supporters who might just turn up once in a blue moon by being a member?

It's really not the World of The Demon Barber at all, there are clubs all over that have been doing this for decades. It's the modern world of football, like it or loath it. Barber is introducing nothing startling new or revolutionary here, this is pretty much a standard model.

 

[Bold Seagull]

If the club are this badly in need of money despite the highest ticket prices in the league already, concourse jumble sales selling everything from Vicentes pants to El Abd's scalp wax, programme price increases, food price increases, paid Mascots etc etc then perhaps we need a statement letting us know whats going on.

It all sounds very desperate cap in hand stuff, one thing after another, and i am certainly concerned about the financial position of the Albion

They've made very clear statements about how fast the club has grown and how they need to progress. How many more statements do you need? Perhaps the minutes of Board meetings should be posted on NSC!?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's really not the World of The Demon Barber at all, there are clubs all over that have been doing this for decades. It's the modern world of football, like it or loath it. Barber is introducing nothing startling new or revolutionary here, this is pretty much a standard model.

I never said Demon Barber is introducing anything new. And just because it's happening elsewhere does not mean I have to like it or accept it. In fact this is a very lazy argument.

 

[luge]

The problem is the fundamental idea that you can buy loyalty without being loyal. If I want to be seen by the club as loyal to the club I can pay £30 a year to get priority tickets. I don't need to ever go to a game, but the club will value me as a 'better' supporter/customer than someone who doesn't pay the £30 but attends every game as a non-STH.

This is just wrong.

I understand that and in some part agree with philosophical element of your argument. However, whatever is right or wrong doesn't really matter. There is due precedent of this type of scheme being run - successfully - up and down the country, for several decades. Even at clubs that aren't as big as us. The albion will quite easily point to this as justification.

As for buying loyalty - well, that's capitalism right there... there isn't a single loyalty system out there where you can't bump up your loyalty status with a bit of cash - the premium credit card, buying of extra airmiles despite not flying. It sounds like the club are offering something in return for the 30 quid (loyalty points, events etc).

If this had been introduced during the first season at the Amex there would have been several people taking it up, including myself (then a non STH) as there was a paucity of tickets. Right now there are enough tickets to go round... if and when we go up - people will pay it no problems.

I would rather not have a system, either - but I don't think they've messed this one up in the slightest.

And in anycase, weren't there members schemes in the past?

 

[teaboy]

But the flip side of that is that we have 5000 seats or so that need to be sold to non season ticket holders. I am sure there are many of these supporters who buy tickets regularly who feel isolated on the current loyalty system whereby when it comes to high demand tickets, they are in the same boat as the supporters who never go to any games. By offering a £10 - £30 annual membership will the 5-10 game fan, or one who does mostly away games, not feel at a bit more of an advantage over those supporters who might just turn up once in a blue moon by being a member?

It's really not the World of The Demon Barber at all, there are clubs all over that have been doing this for decades. It's the modern world of football, like it or loath it. Barber is introducing nothing startling new or revolutionary here, this is pretty much a standard model.

That simply isn't true. At the moment if someone goes to games they get 'loyalty points'. The more games they go to, the more points they get. When there are 'high demand' games the people with the most points have the best chance of getting tickets. If you go to 5 games you have more points than someone who goes to none. If the system is administered properly then it works. It allows the club to encourage fans to go to certain games by offering more points for some games (Yeovil away on a Tuesday night) than others (QPR at home on a Saturday afternoon). Sometimes demand will outstrip supply, but NO system will stop that. The only advantage 'membership' gains is over 'non-members'. It has nothing to do with attendance. In fact, if 'loyalty points' only apply to members then the whole 'loyalty' pretence backfires. It's divisive, and unnecessary.

Either way I don't believe people should have to pay a fee for the right to try and buy a ticket for something (whether or not there are tickets available is irrelevant).

 

[Bold Seagull]

I never said Demon Barber is introducing anything new. And just because it's happening elsewhere does not mean I have to like it or accept it. In fact this is a very lazy argument.

That is true, it was a bit lazy.

 

[Bold Seagull]

That simply isn't true. At the moment if someone goes to games they get 'loyalty points'. The more games they go to, the more points they get. When there are 'high demand' games the people with the most points have the best chance of getting tickets. If you go to 5 games you have more points than someone who goes to none. If the system is administered properly then it works. It allows the club to encourage fans to go to certain games by offering more points for some games (Yeovil away on a Tuesday night) than others (QPR at home on a Saturday afternoon). Sometimes demand will outstrip supply, but NO system will stop that. The only advantage 'membership' gains is over 'non-members'. It has nothing to do with attendance. In fact, if 'loyalty points' only apply to members then the whole 'loyalty' pretence backfires. It's divisive, and unnecessary.

Either way I don't believe people should have to pay a fee for the right to try and buy a ticket for something (whether or not there are tickets available is irrelevant).

Yes, but generally the released criteria for loyalty points is say 1200+, then 1000+, then 100+ then general sale. That means everyone under that last threshold is treated the same. The loyalty points are what, league and away cup matches 10 pts, home cup matches 20 points. So you could be going to a handful of games, but you're still potentially the same priority as someone who goes to none.

I also don't altogether agree that pure attendance defines your loyalty as a fan. I'm sure there are many passionate fans who work on Saturdays, or similar can't get to as many games as they'd like. Just because their attendance is low, makes them no less of a supporter.

So buying loyalty is not an ideal solution, but neither is the current one in all honesty which you've already stated.

I think that potentially there are enough people who'd be happy to spend £10-£30 pa, get a membership pack no doubt, a smartcard and some priority status. There will be some that perhaps 'don't deserve' to buy that status, but I think most committing to a membership scheme probably will.

On your last point, it's clear that membership is not a requirement to purchase tickets at all. It is really only going to be relevant on the handful of high demand games. If we did go up, then clearly membership is going to be a lot more relevant.

 

[teaboy]

That simply isn't true. At the moment if someone goes to games they get 'loyalty points'. The more games they go to, the more points they get. When there are 'high demand' games the people with the most points have the best chance of getting tickets. If you go to 5 games you have more points than someone who goes to none. If the system is administered properly then it works. It allows the club to encourage fans to go to certain games by offering more points for some games (Yeovil away on a Tuesday night) than others (QPR at home on a Saturday afternoon). Sometimes demand will outstrip supply, but NO system will stop that. The only advantage 'membership' gains is over 'non-members'. It has nothing to do with attendance. In fact, if 'loyalty points' only apply to members then the whole 'loyalty' pretence backfires. It's divisive, and unnecessary.

Either way I don't believe people should have to pay a fee for the right to try and buy a ticket for something (whether or not there are tickets available is irrelevant).

Yes, but generally the released criteria for loyalty points is say 1200+, then 1000+, then 100+ then general sale. That means everyone under that last threshold is treated the same. The loyalty points are what, league and away cup matches 10 pts, home cup matches 20 points. So you could be going to a handful of games, but you're still potentially the same priority as someone who goes to none.

I also don't altogether agree that pure attendance defines your loyalty as a fan. I'm sure there are many passionate fans who work on Saturdays, or similar can't get to as many games as they'd like. Just because their attendance is low, makes them no less of a supporter.

So buying loyalty is not an ideal solution, but neither is the current one in all honesty which you've already stated.

I think that potentially there are enough people who'd be happy to spend £10-£30 pa, get a membership pack no doubt, a smartcard and some priority status. There will be some that perhaps 'don't deserve' to buy that status, but I think most committing to a membership scheme probably will.

On your last point, it's clear that membership is not a requirement to purchase tickets at all. It is really only going to be relevant on the handful of high demand games. If we did go up, then clearly membership is going to be a lot more relevant.

I've highlighted the above as it's vital for a fair system. Currently (as you've said) I don't think the points system is being administered properly. All games get the same points - why? The points required for tickets have huge gaps - why? There's no reason you can't have a 30+ criteria or whatever you want, but it depends on the point of the scheme. Is it (as perceived) to enable your most loyal (through attendance) fans to have first pick of tickets for big games? Or is it something else? Is it currently 'fit for purpose'? If the answer is no, then change it so that it is. I don't believe that 'membership' is the way to do it.

It isn't a choice of the current system or the new membership plan. There are plenty of other options for the distribution of tickets that I would prefer as I think they're fairer.