How thick are students...

[User removed 4]

If you backtracked anymore you'd be time travelling. Your first post told me all I needed to know. You thought it was all jolly good fun and you got to bully some nasty Tories until the beastly plod give you and your mates a thoroughly deserved kicking.

Still buzzing from all this you come on here giving it Billy Big Bollocks. You think you're f***ing Che Guevera. Realising that you've dropped yourself in it completely with your tales of rebel bravado you then start to retreat "it wasn't intimidation it was...umm...I'm not sure but we certainly didn't say anything to those Milbank Tower workers. Not me, sir."

Bollocks. I hope you and your friends get identified by the police and get the full weight of the law thrown at you. This is a democracy and you and your silly mates have no right to bully people or cause criminal damage. Like I said, I was neutral until today. Having read the news and posts like yours I now have no sympathy for your position.

Brilliant !

 

[clapham_gull]

On the voting in of the President. It is a ballot that happens at NUS national conference. All delegates at the conference have to be elected by the membership of their local SU in order to go, each SU have a given number of places at conference dependent on the size of their respective institution (although I have known of 'fudged' votes where there were less candidates to go to conference than there were spaces, thus ensuring that all the spaces are filled).

I listen to them on the issue of "democracy" if they elected their leader directly.

 

[User removed 4]

There will still be bright working class kids (like my father) who will take on multiple jobs and work their way through University but many many more will be put off from even applying.

Then that's their problem isnt it.

 

[clapham_gull]

Then that's their problem isnt it.

Yes and no - depends on what they are going to study and how it helps industry in general.

Degrees like Architecture, Science and Engineering are going to become very very expensive.

For cases like above - I'm surprised the CBI have yet to pipe up.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Students are dicks, pissheads, time wasters blah blah blah.

Standard NSC binfest. It's all very boring.

I didn't go on the march today, funnily enough I had a lecture, but fully support all those who did.

and fully support the violence and criminal damage?

So whoever disagrees with the Government, general policy or just feel hard done by can cause injury and thousands of pounds worth of damage?

Seriously wake up and realise what you are supporting; condemn the violence and criminal damage and say you support the cause by all means but hey general support is a can of worms we really don't want to open.

 

[Biscuit]

try again, cock-splat.

Anti-tory messages - I am surprised you can string a sentence together let alone chant a message ... I hope your mate gets f***ing brain damage...And sort your f***ing spelling out, you unemployable twat.

For a lecturer, your responses on here have been quite frankly pathetic and you are letting your profession down. What is it you teach? Aggression and Abuse 101? In fact don't answer that, I'd only get a tirade of abuse. I thought lecturers like yourself might be more game for intelligent debate but obviously not, name call ahead. You're only showing yourself up I'm afraid.

Out of interest, how many people who disagree with the violence invaded the pitch and broke the goalposts back in '97? Or is criminal damage only justified when it's something like a football club and not something silly like the future of education in this country...

I'm not condoning it at all but well done for the students who got out and did something about it rather than moaning behind their newspaper at 'the state of the world today.'

As always with NSC a genuinely interesting debate eventually gets high-jacked by name calling morons like HampshireSeagull, calling people twats, cock-splat (still not entirely sure what that means must be playground slang) and wishing people brain damage.. all this from a lecturer. No wonder they no longer demand respect! Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

For all those like bhaexpress, KneeOn, Westdene Seagull, Superphil,
Uncle C, et al thanks for the interesting debate, it brightened up my afternoon.

 

[clapham_gull]

Labour would have done exactly the same and the NUS are arguing for a Graduate Tax....

In a way I'm glad students appear to have politicised again on mass. Nothing wrong with that...

 

[strings]

I think I'll leave my final words on the events to the NUS President:

"Yesterday was a long day of mixed emotions for me and thousands of others who came from all corners of the country to join with us in London yesterday to defend education.

More than 50,000 students, lecturers, teachers, brothers, sisters and parents took to London's streets for a jointly organised NUS and UCU march against brutal government cuts to our colleges and universities, proposals to triple fees and cuts to maintenance support for the poorest learners...

...Our membership rightly wanted and expected an opportunity to peacefully express their grievances and it was our responsibility to help deliver that. We worked closely with the police and authorities to agree the route and logistics to hold the powerful and emphatic but nonviolent protest on a crisp but sunny November lunchtime...

...Not on our side were the very small minority of violent protesters – estimated at 200 – who sought to hijack our organised success for their own agendas. The organisers of this splinter action are not known to us but we suspect they are not even students. I make no apology for condemning the mindless violence of a few that tried to undermine the case of a great many. I wish that rather than spend so much of our time talking about that reckless minority that we had more opportunity to talk about the real issues that brought so many people out on the streets.

That violence by a tiny minority sought to detract from our powerful collective message and let students down. We will never defend those who took actions that put innocent people's lives at risk. Indeed, I notice that none of those who unleashed violence on innocent people have been willing to comment in public. They simply cannot defend the indefensible.

I have a responsibility to carry our message forward and build our case. Our cause is too important to be undermined."

Student protest: violence will not undermine cause

 

[fataddick]

Top cop: I (did not) predict a riot | The Sun |News

The Have Your Say bit attached to that article makes for interesting reading with up to half the posters saying they supported the rioters and/or pinning all the blame on Nick Clegg. That's SUN READERS supporting rioting middle class students. I think people seriously underestimate how much the bankers' bonuses and flip-flopping double home politicians have eroded the wider public's respect for the 'Powers The Be' to the extent where anyone fights back, even in an 'irresponsibe' way, gets the support of a large chunk of the public. Albeit seemingly not on NSC.

And for those claiming the attack on the Tories' ivory tower was all the work of 'anarchists', take a look at the photos the Spanish newspaper El Pais got right from the middle of it and see how few people are masked/scarfed up (as any seasoned anarchist troublemaker would be):

Contra la vitrina - Asalto a la sede de los 'Tories' - ELPAÍS.com

Click the arrows at either side to scroll through, there's about a dozen pics in total. Quite clearly 90%+ are ordinary students (ordinary students likely to be getting a visit from Dixon of Dock Green around now), no matter what that Labour-MP-in-waiting Aaron Porter might say.

 

[BLOCK F]

some girl union president from UCL or somewhere who was on bbc breakfast with him this morning made him appear positively statesman-like by comparison. she was hysterical, it really is worth a watch just to see her get totally owned by f***ing bill turnbull and sian williams of all people. she would have got a kicking on richard and judy too.

she was all angry pompous and smart alec-y studenty in the most brilliant way, you couldnt have made her up. i was so intrigued i had to go all internet stalky and look her up.

i am in no hurry to subsidise education for wankers like this.

http://solomonsmindfield.blogspot.com/

I saw her too.Couldn't believe she was so dreadful....had to call in my wife to listen to her.Clare something ,I think her name was.As soon as she uttered her 'words of wisdom' I thought oh God,how to ruin the students' cause in one easy go.
Thought Aaron Porter spoke very well and I am sure he was as appalled by 'Clare' as many others must have been.
Quite exhausted after reading through this 'exciting' thread...perhaps someone should adapt it for telly or something.Now there is an idea to earn a few bob for a penniless student!
Seriously though,I do have sympathy for many students who face years of debt,then try to buy a house and also save for a pension....not going to be easy.I am a retired Tory voting student of the 60's who has had it a lot easier.Nevertheless, 2 of my 3 offspring are wanting to go to uni,so there may be trouble ahead.
Shame the previous Government had this mad notion of aiming to send 50% of kids to uni....Why?Too many courses and unis have devalued degrees and many youngsters who would have been better off pursuing other courses of action have become disillusioned debtors.IMHO,schools are all geared up to brainwash their pupils and parents into it is uni or nothing.Wrong ,of course.

 

[clapham_gull]

The Have Your Say bit attached to that article makes for interesting reading with up to half the posters saying they supported the rioters and/or pinning all the blame on Nick Clegg. That's SUN READERS supporting rioting middle class students. I think people seriously underestimate how much the bankers' bonuses and flip-flopping double home politicians have eroded the wider public's respect for the 'Powers The Be' to the extent where anyone fights back, even in an 'irresponsibe' way, gets the support of a large chunk of the public. Albeit seemingly not on NSC.

And for those claiming the attack on the Tories' ivory tower was all the work of 'anarchists', take a look at the photos the Spanish newspaper El Pais got right from the middle of it and see how few people are masked/scarfed up (as any seasoned anarchist troublemaker would be):

Contra la vitrina - Asalto a la sede de los 'Tories' - ELPAÍS.com

Click the arrows at either side to scroll through, there's about a dozen pics in total. Quite clearly 90%+ are ordinary students (ordinary students likely to be getting a visit from Dixon of Dock Green around now), no matter what that Labour-MP-in-waiting Aaron Porter might say.

Yep agree with most of that - but I think the MP expenses scandal has really focused voters minds on how their money is spent. The students need to win the argument with the general public as well as the Government.

Funny how Clegg has become public enemy numero uno after his rock star status a few months ago.

Just goes to show that irrespective of your political leanings - no-one likes a liar.

 

[bhaexpress]

I think perhaps that there should be an NUU, a National Union of the Underprivileged. They can all get together and march on London in protest at the fact they are Underprivileged. Probably be a bigger gathering (as long as they could afford the fares into London) but I fear they would also do a lot more damage. Still as they realise they have little hope of things improving they have a lot of frustration.

 

[brakespear]

Can this not be pro-rata for different subjects? I dont mind my tax money fully subsidising someone to do a medical degree, I dont even mind part funding someone to learn about business or geography but if you want to do the History of Art? or Surfing?? you can pay for the whole thing yourself

I've always thought this is would be a good way to do it.

 

[Gazwag]

Out of interest, how many people who disagree with the violence invaded the pitch and broke the goalposts back in '97? Or is criminal damage only justified when it's something like a football club and not something silly like the future of education in this country...

Breaking a goal post is hardly attempted murder though is it I don't recall pieces of said goal post being thrown at Bellotti or the police unlike chucking a fire extinguisher off a tall building with the intention of killing a police officer

 

[Biscuit]

and fully support the violence and criminal damage?

So whoever disagrees with the Government, general policy or just feel hard done by can cause injury and thousands of pounds worth of damage?

Seriously wake up and realise what you are supporting; condemn the violence and criminal damage and say you support the cause by all means but hey general support is a can of worms we really don't want to open.

A well argued point and no one can condon the violence. At all. It was unacceptable. I just hope as with the poll tax riots, mob behaviour occasionally does help promote positive policy outcomes.

 

[Skintagain 1983]

That old chestnut eh?

Out of interest, does anyone have any viable suggestions as to how higher/further education should be paid for? Rather than constant critisism of consecutive governments, what do you think would be the fairest way of paying for it?

Er... Perhaps by seriously investing in staffing for HMRC to start collecting the £123bn (yes billion) each year in tax that the rich and super rich manage to avoid and evade, would be the starting point.

 

[MaggieT83]

I'm a student and think the plans are fair enough. I do a decent degree at a decent uni and will come out with a lot of debt but am confident that my degree will help me financially in the future. I have had very little financial support from my family and I receive no grant because the government assumes my dad that earns more than the thresh hold can support me, not taking into account he also has a large family to support. However the loans provided for tuition fees and living costs I think are sufficient for anyone from any background to get a degree. I have met to many students that go to university 'for the university life' or simply because they don't want to work or don't know what to do with their lives.

 

[seagulls4ever]

Breaking a goal post is hardly attempted murder though is it I don't recall pieces of said goal post being thrown at Bellotti or the police unlike chucking a fire extinguisher off a tall building with the intention of killing a police officer

That was one extreme incident, to which the crowd reacted by booing and chants of "stop throwing shit". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAGNJMQD1rA&feature=player_embedded

I don't really agree with the violence, but I was there and at the end of the day had the violence not occured the story wouldn't have made headline news. This sends a bigger message to the government that students will not stand for what they are doing than what a peaceful protest would have done. I think a little argy bargy and breaking a few windows is fine, but when people start getting seriously hurt that's when I have an issue with it.

The police were being extremley heavy handed as well, and a lot of the violence was actually instigated by them. Rather than trying to protect the building which is what they were meant to be doing, they were seriously trying to injure people - and succeeded on a few occasions. The news says there were only 14 injuries, but I can promise you there were a lot more than that.

 

[User removed 4]

I saw her too.Couldn't believe she was so dreadful....had to call in my wife to listen to her.Clare something ,I think her name was.As soon as she uttered her 'words of wisdom' I thought oh God,how to ruin the students' cause in one easy go.
Thought Aaron Porter spoke very well and I am sure he was as appalled by 'Clare' as many others must have been.
Quite exhausted after reading through this 'exciting' thread...perhaps someone should adapt it for telly or something.Now there is an idea to earn a few bob for a penniless student!
Seriously though,I do have sympathy for many students who face years of debt,then try to buy a house and also save for a pension....not going to be easy.I am a retired Tory voting student of the 60's who has had it a lot easier.Nevertheless, 2 of my 3 offspring are wanting to go to uni,so there may be trouble ahead.
Shame the previous Government had this mad notion of aiming to send 50% of kids to uni....Why?Too many courses and unis have devalued degrees and many youngsters who would have been better off pursuing other courses of action have become disillusioned debtors.IMHO,schools are all geared up to brainwash their pupils and parents into it is uni or nothing.Wrong ,of course.

I saw it too, she looked to be older than the average student as well.

 

[clapham_gull]

I saw it too, she looked to be older than the average student as well.

How old is your average student then ?

The average age on my Masters Degree was well over 30.

Silly women but age isn't the issue.