How thick are students...

[beorhthelm]

good on them i say, its a shit policy.

i do have to laugh at those targeting the party political issue of this. I went on the march 12 or so years ago for exactly the same principle, then it was the Labour government introducing fees. we said then that its the thin en dof the wedge. the Browne review was commissioned a year ago by the outgoing Labour party, and it was long their policy to increase student fees they just were waiting for the backing. this was coming irrespective of government or defict reduction plans.

all parties, led by people who got a free university education, have all conspired to block higher education to the current and future generation of acedemics, scientists and engineers. sad really.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Have'nt a f***ing clue what your on about bringing driving lessons into this.

My point being that regardless of where the money comes from for the lessons, that it could be used to help fund your education instead.

When you own a home etc and the mortgage rate goes up of gas / electricity doubles in price you often have to decide what gets cut - booze, fags, Sky TV etc.

If you value that education so much you'll cut the non-essentials to help pay for it ( or just hope the tax payer continues to do so ).

The current cap is just over £3k, being raised to £9k, thats 6k a year, leading to an 18k debt.

£9k is the maximum and only for a handful of courses. £6k will be the norm - meaning the increase ( or loss to the student ) will be £3k per year making £9k.

 

[Uncle C]

Yeah, thankfully!

It was at the time. AT THE TIME. That the manhandelling after we got her that pissed us off. AT THE TIME.

So they may have saved her life.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

good on them i say, its a shit policy.

i do have to laugh at those targeting the party political issue of this. I went on the march 12 or so years ago for exactly the same principle, then it was the Labour government introducing fees. we said then that its the thin en dof the wedge. the Browne review was commissioned a year ago by the outgoing Labour party, and it was long their policy to increase student fees they just were waiting for the backing. this was coming irrespective of government or defict reduction plans.

all parties, led by people who got a free university education, have all conspired to block higher education to the current and future generation of acedemics, scientists and engineers. sad really.

Don't do this, you will force Castello to implode! He was just getting on to his Anti-Tory rant (we almost had a "Thatcher" mention earlier) and you have gone and put it back in the court of the Red Machine. How can he groom Knee On when you are pointing out that the Comrades thought of all this first?

 

[essbee]

Lincoln imp,

At the 'new' Universities I grant you - some might not have a PhD, because
they do a lot more teaching - so maybe I should have been more precise
myself. But in research-led Universities, research degrees are standard.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

So those that DO do worthwhile courses, which are a benefit to society, should pay far inflated prices for those who do the courses which are a waste of time?
I want to be in the police force or possibly the secret service (obviously this would be difficult to achieve), and thus have just this week sent in an application for Law and Criminology. Based on your arguement, it would seem that you want increased fee's to pay for those taking courses that are not worthwhile, why should students doing good courses pay for those people more than anyone else in society?

I must have expressed myself very badly. I was simply saying that being charged an economic rate for all degrees would encourage people to take the worthwhile ones such as yours rather than the useless ones - in much the same way that being charged an economic price for a car led people to buy BMWs rather than Rovers.

 

[KneeOn]

So they may have saved her life.

Yes... now we've calmed down we are still very very thankful for helping her, and we understand the tactics used by the police.

At the time it was a case of two officers being guardians (for saving her) and one being a twat (when he pushed and punched three compliant people about) because we were angry and a little bit scared of what had happened to her.

 

[Foolg]

My point being that regardless of where the money comes from for the lessons, that it could be used to help fund your education instead.

When you own a home etc and the mortgage rate goes up of gas / electricity doubles in price you often have to decide what gets cut - booze, fags, Sky TV etc.

If you value that education so much you'll cut the non-essentials to help pay for it ( or just hope the tax payer continues to do so ).




£9k is the maximum and only for a handful of courses. £6k will be the norm - meaning the increase ( or loss to the student ) will be £3k per year making £9k.

So your suggesting that all of a sudden making me and other students cut back completely on any form of luxuries to pay for our education is fair, for wanting to better ourselves. This being a burden placed on us students thanks to a debt that is nothing to do with those who will be studying in the next few years. Fair eh?
If you think thats fair, give up arguing with me because I'd never be able to agree with you.


Oh, and i understand the 9k cap wont be for every university, but it will be at the top ones. Three of my five universities are top 10 in the UK, i'd expect them to go up to the maximum fees. I presume your arguement would be to go to a cheaper university, thus decreasing the future employment oppurtunities.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So your suggesting that all of a sudden making me and other students cut back completely on any form of luxuries to pay for our education is fair, for wanting to better ourselves. This being a burden placed on us students thanks to a debt that is nothing to do with those who will be studying in the next few years. Fair eh?
If you think thats fair, give up arguing with me because I'd never be able to agree with you.

Welcome to the real world. When gas goes up nearly 10% next month what luxury should I cut ? Or should I go and smash up the offices of British Gas ?

The debt wasn't my fault either but life isn't fair.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

So your suggesting that all of a sudden making me and other students cut back completely on any form of luxuries to pay for our education is fair, for wanting to better ourselves.

Can you see what you said? You seriously don't believe that you should cut back in order to pursue your chosen qualification? I spent a year working in ASDA every evening and weekend, we cancelled all "luxuries" and lived on the ASDA own-brand stuff so that I could qualify with a PGCE. It was the price I paid to follow my choice and better myself. I took the loans and grants because I have a family - and I pay them back.

Perhaps that's just my approach.

 

[cannedheat]

Well done the students majority of the nation think you are a bunch of c-n-s, keep it up.

 

[southstandandy]

Having been a student I can sympathise with the costs involved even though they were much less 15 years ago when I was at University. I did though work every holiday and 3 nights a week whilst there to pay rent (as I didn't qualify for a grant) and the £8,000 I managed to earn over the year managed to pay for food, living expenses, and my fees of £2500 a year.

If some of these students now were prepared to work a bit they could offset a sizeable chuck of any potential cost increases, but I can imagine most would rather be down the pub. I don't agree with the rises, and it's fair to protest, but it is also possible to work whilst at Uni and earn a reasonable sum.

I'm pretty sure though the violence today was caused not so much by actual students but a small number of anarchists who always try to attach themselves to any protest whatever the cause.

It was interesting on an earlier news bulletin when the interviewer asked one guy why he had just thrown 3 pieces of wood at the police and did he think this helped his cause - the guy replied 'I'm not 'ere for the students, I just love 'avin a ago at the old bill'

I rest my case.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Can you see what you said? You seriously don't believe that you should cut back in order to pursue your chosen qualification? I spent a year working in ASDA every evening and weekend, we cancelled all "luxuries" and lived on the ASDA own-brand stuff so that I could qualify with a PGCE. It was the price I paid to follow my choice and better myself. I took the loans and grants because I have a family - and I pay them back.

Perhaps that's just my approach.

Call me foolish but I think it's called paying your way

 

[Dandyman]

Don't do this, you will force Castello to implode! He was just getting on to his Anti-Tory rant (we almost had a "Thatcher" mention earlier) and you have gone and put it back in the court of the Red Machine. How can he groom Knee On when you are pointing out that the Comrades thought of all this first?

To be honest I gave you more credit than thinking there was anything red or comradely about Neo Labour.

 

[Foolg]

Welcome to the real world. When gas goes up nearly 10% next month what luxury should I cut ? Or should I go and smash up the offices of British Gas ?

The debt wasn't my fault either but life isn't fair.

Great idea, so you feel teenagers should have no luxuries for 3 or 4 years and put all there money towards further education, and still have NOWHERE near enough money to cover the costs of University education. Another suggestion in there which has nothing to do with me revolving around the protests today, that was a MINORITY, and if you read my posts, you'd see i condemned the violence. This is despite the fact most of those partakeing in such activities were probably there not to protest at the fee's, but as a chance to ruin a few government buildings.

Your gas goes up 10%, big deal, university education, which note already leaves students with over £20k worth of debt, has decided to increases its fee's by 300%. Comparing your gas bill to that.

Did you go to university yourself, out of interest, just wondering as if the answer to that is yes, i'd be very suprised if you would have carried on as usual if it were you affected.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

HAven't read the whole thread but these students have to realise that their loan will cost them less than sly tv per month to pay back.

 

[Castello]

I could always come and discuss this at your place of work? Housing Support Worker with a wide red stripe then?

Let's hope you lose your job in the cuts (like in your avatar) and end up needing your own services.

Bring on the revolution, eh Che?

Nice and patronising there Mr Sanctimonius. If it wasn't a public board I would suggest that was a 7/10 attempt at grooming!

It's nothing to do with voting Tory, it's more to do with how the protest was handled and the damage done to the argument. However, if you want to turn this into the Great Class War that never was, then carry on. I will dig out the words to the "Red Flag" and have them ready to hand when the call comes.

Don't do this, you will force Castello to implode! He was just getting on to his Anti-Tory rant (we almost had a "Thatcher" mention earlier) and you have gone and put it back in the court of the Red Machine. How can he groom Knee On when you are pointing out that the Comrades thought of all this first?

Oh my, I really seem to have upset you. But lets be honest you really dont mean your threat of violence now do you. We both know you're far too middle class to do anything but write a few words of vitriol and big yoruself up about how you have me soooo summed up.

Think again, or not, I really dont care.

 

[Foolg]

Can you see what you said? You seriously don't believe that you should cut back in order to pursue your chosen qualification? I spent a year working in ASDA every evening and weekend, we cancelled all "luxuries" and lived on the ASDA own-brand stuff so that I could qualify with a PGCE. It was the price I paid to follow my choice and better myself. I took the loans and grants because I have a family - and I pay them back.

Perhaps that's just my approach.

So i should more a less give up 4 or 5 years of my life to save for education, in which i'd still be nowhere near having enough money to be debt free. I've worked since 12, and still have 2 jobs, if you expect kids to work every free day they have, spend no money on any form of luxury, just to pay for higher education, you'll be left with just a group of loaded kids at university who can blag it off their parents.
If i saved everything i earnt, about 2k a year, i'd have saved 14k between the age i started work and intend on going to university. Thats still 4k BELOW the INCREASE in fee's alone, add on the other 9k you would be paying before the increase. So nobody intending on University should take driving lessons, go to football matches, go out with mates, because by your logic i couldnt afford to do both.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Great idea, so you feel teenagers should have no luxuries for 3 or 4 years and put all there money towards further education, and still have NOWHERE near enough money to cover the costs of University education. Another suggestion in there which has nothing to do with me revolving around the protests today, that was a MINORITY, and if you read my posts, you'd see i condemned the violence. This is despite the fact most of those partakeing in such activities were probably there not to protest at the fee's, but as a chance to ruin a few government buildings.

Your gas goes up 10%, big deal, university education, which note already leaves students with over £20k worth of debt, has decided to increases its fee's by 300%. Comparing your gas bill to that.

Did you go to university yourself, out of interest, just wondering as if the answer to that is yes, i'd be very suprised if you would have carried on as usual if it were you affected.

I went to a Poly and worked at the same time. as others have suggested, if student bothered to work ( and I don't mean 3 hours in Asda every other Saturday morning ) they could easily cover most of the extra fees. I got a very small grant that didn't come even close to paying the fees and my living expenses.

If a student comes out with £20k of debt after a 3 year course then they clearly haven't worked during that period.

So how much do you think is reasonable to charge for Uni fees then ?

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

Great idea, so you feel teenagers should have no luxuries for 3 or 4 years and put all there money towards further education, and still have NOWHERE near enough money to cover the costs of University education. Another suggestion in there which has nothing to do with me revolving around the protests today, that was a MINORITY, and if you read my posts, you'd see i condemned the violence. This is despite the fact most of those partakeing in such activities were probably there not to protest at the fee's, but as a chance to ruin a few government buildings.

Your gas goes up 10%, big deal, university education, which note already leaves students with over £20k worth of debt, has decided to increases its fee's by 300%. Comparing your gas bill to that.

Did you go to university yourself, out of interest, just wondering as if the answer to that is yes, i'd be very suprised if you would have carried on as usual if it were you affected.

1. You do realise that fees are not payable up front - and you get the loans to make the payments?

2. You will have enough to live on as you do now - the debt accrues and you pay it back at a higher threshold of £21K and not £15K.

3. The debt is cleared after 30 years (I know, whoopee).

4. The loans are means tested - blame your parents for earning too much.

You are paying a going rate for a qualification and you don't pay it back until you have qualified and you are earning over £21K. What is really wrong with that?