How LARGE will Cameron's failure be ?

[wellquickwoody]

He means single parenthood as a choice, either as a straightforward one or being too f***ing thick to use contraception, not as a result of marriage breakdown.

Correct, thank you. Maybe the Tory plan to give tax breaks for married couples is a good idea, or perhaps just the start of a good idea.

 

[Gwylan]

.. go back to the old days of babies being torn away from sobbing mothers to be adopted but we either carry on as we are , or there are some stark choices to be made.

There's a desperate shortage of both prospective adopters and foster parents at the moment, so this would be hard to achieve.

Taking kids into care is a very expensive option. It costs an average of £37,000 a year to look after a child in care - that's a lot more expensive than benefits paid per child. Apart from the emotional benefit to the child, there's also a financial reason to keeping mother and child together - hence the benefits system.

Like I said, I don't think it's perfect, there should be examination of how mothers in low-paid jobs can afford childcare.

 

[Simster]

Not dishing out a council flat and benefits to every 17 year old who knocks a kid out would be a start, seriously , that might make them think twice,i'm pretty sure my 17 year old chav second cousin would be less inclined to have got pregnant if she knew she had to live in some sort of unmarried mothers hostel , noone wants to go back to the old days of babies being torn away from sobbing mothers to be adopted but we either carry on as we are , or there are some stark choices to be made.

None of us really know the true cost to the state of people like this, but all I'd like to see is some proper limits on the levels of support you can expect from the state. Something along the lines of capping the child benefit until you've paid income tax for at least 5 years.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

It's odd that this debate is taking place on a thread that is about the outcome of the general election.

Is there ANYONE who thinks that one of the major political parties intends to implement policies that will seriously change the proportion of children who are educated outside the state system?

Is there ANYONE who believes it is possible for a political party to implement a programme that will reduce the number of young single parent families in Britain?

I think not. But there are plenty of people who don't like some aspect of modern society and want politicians (or a particular political party) to shoulder the blame.

 

[User removed 4]

There's a desperate shortage of both prospective adopters and foster parents at the moment, so this would be hard to achieve.

Taking kids into care is a very expensive option. It costs an average of £37,000 a year to look after a child in care - that's a lot more expensive than benefits paid per child. Apart from the emotional benefit to the child, there's also a financial reason to keeping mother and child together - hence the benefits system.

Like I said, I don't think it's perfect, there should be examination of how mothers in low-paid jobs can afford childcare.

Like i sai, no-one wants to go back to the days of mothers being ' encouraged' to give up children for adoption, when i advocated single mothers hostels i meant together with the child !

 

[User removed 4]

None of us really know the true cost to the state of people like this, but all I'd like to see is some proper limits on the levels of support you can expect from the state. Something along the lines of capping the child benefit until you've paid income tax for at least 5 years.

the whole concept of automatic child benefit is flawed, my wife received it and we clearly didnt need it , it should go to the people who NEED IT, not to someone who like me at the time earned quite a lot of money.

 

[The Large One]

But will refusing them a council flat stop their irresponsibility?

'Thinking twice' is not going to make it any less 'socially acceptable' (woody's phrase).

When we're talking about chavs, their idea of 'socially acceptable' and most other people's don't really tally. I can't see that taking away a council flat on its own will help.

 

[The Large One]

the whole concept of automatic child benefit is flawed, my wife received it and we clearly didnt need it , it should go to the people who NEED IT, not to someone who like me at the time earned quite a lot of money.

But it's cheaper than bringing in a system of means-testing.

 

[User removed 4]

But will refusing them a council flat stop their irresponsibility?

'Thinking twice' is not going to make it any less 'socially acceptable' (woody's phrase).

When we're talking about chavs, their idea of 'socially acceptable' and most other people's don't really tally. I can't see that taking away a council flat on its own will help.

It may do after a while when they see their friends living in hostel or some such place.

 

[Simster]

But will refusing them a council flat stop their irresponsibility?

'Thinking twice' is not going to make it any less 'socially acceptable' (woody's phrase).

When we're talking about chavs, their idea of 'socially acceptable' and most other people's don't really tally. I can't see that taking away a council flat on its own will help.

Taking away a council flat will not help, but making it very difficult to get one in the first place would certainly help. Just divert the money to more deserving causes and away from state funded housing stock.

 

[User removed 4]

But it's cheaper than bringing in a system of means-testing.

im not fully au fait with the system , but how can it cost money to draw a line and say for instance , if you earn above x amount a year , you no longer qualify for child benefit.

 

[The Large One]

Correct, thank you. Maybe the Tory plan to give tax breaks for married couples is a good idea, or perhaps just the start of a good idea.

But a Married Couple's tax break is not going to be the deciding factor (or even in the Top 10 of deciding factors) in choosing whether a couple gets married - or splits up.

So you then have to ask - what purpose is it for?

 

[wellquickwoody]

Is there ANYONE who believes it is possible for a political party to implement a programme that will reduce the number of young single parent families in Britain?

In the current PC (wait for the abuse at me) world we live in you are correct LB, no politicians have the balls to address many of the issues that the electorate really do care about.

Perhaps if they did they would be surprised at the amouny of support they would receive. David Cameron gave me a label this week, and he was spot on, I am part of the 'great ignored'.

 

[User removed 4]

Taking away a council flat will not help, but making it very difficult to get one in the first place would certainly help. Just divert the money to more deserving causes and away from state funded housing stock.

or give prioriy to what i would consider more deserving causes, i know 40year old blokes in low income jobs who are living with their parents due to their inability to afford a private rental, and they are literally laughed at when they apply for social housing, i know where my sympathies lie.

 

[wellquickwoody]

the whole concept of automatic child benefit is flawed, my wife received it and we clearly didnt need it , it should go to the people who NEED IT, not to someone who like me at the time earned quite a lot of money.

Gonna have to start that fan club bushy! You are only the second person I have heard having the balls to say this. I have a 'nice' home in Hove, near but not next to Hove Park. I totally object to my money being given to people living in £1 million pound homes just round the corner from me, why am I paying for their kids FFS?

 

[The Large One]

im not fully au fait with the system , but how can it cost money to draw a line and say for instance , if you earn above x amount a year , you no longer qualify for child benefit.

Several things - for a start, there's the administration involved when you would have to register your income. And not everyone's income is the same throughout the year. People are self-employed or freelance - there is famine and drought in that sort of work.

During the year you may become unemployed, and then get work again. Do you include the earnings of an absent parent, or someone who has just formed a relationship with the mother, but who doesn't yet live with them - or who has an arrangement to live them now and then?

All of this keeping records up to date is going to cost. Then there will be some people who would be above a nominal earnings threshold who wouldn't be entitled to it, so those people are defrauding the system, so more benefit inspectors have to be employed.

And on and on. It's bad enough sorting this shit out with HMRC, the Benefits Agency would probably just implode.

 

[Simster]

or give prioriy to what i would consider more deserving causes, i know 40year old blokes in low income jobs who are living with their parents due to their inability to afford a private rental, and they are literally laughed at when they apply for social housing, i know where my sympathies lie.

You'll be voting Tory though. Good luck with expecting to see that lot change the benefits system in this way. There aren't many tory votes from 40 year old blokes in low income jobs needing a council flat.

 

[Chicken Run]

But a Married Couple's tax break is not going to be the deciding factor (or even in the Top 10 of deciding factors) in choosing whether a couple gets married - or splits up.

So you then have to ask - what purpose is it for?

I assume your couple in question are first timers, young, whole lives ahead of them perhaps even a small family in the future types, if you are then your forgetting the large amount of people that are in there second relationship after say 10 years of married life who handn't planned to get married but might

 

[The Large One]

In the current PC (wait for the abuse at me) world we live in you are correct LB, no politicians have the balls to address many of the issues that the electorate really do care about.

Perhaps if they did they would be surprised at the amouny of support they would receive. David Cameron gave me a label this week, and he was spot on, I am part of the 'great ignored'.

But you still haven't come up with an idea (no, I'm not taking that other one seriously) as to how to tackle this problem. All you've done is shift the emphasis on to the politicians sorting it.

You care about the problem (don't we all), but where's the solution?

 

[User removed 4]

You'll be voting Tory though. Good luck with expecting to see that lot change the benefits system in this way. There aren't many tory votes from 40 year old blokes in low income jobs needing a council flat.

well labour have done him proud havent they ? and i think you'd be surprised at the tory vote amongst this group, immigration has a greater effect on which way people vote than maybe some people realise.