Home Grown Quota For Premiership

[beorhthelm]

Our administration is a 3-way battle between the FA (which really really does need reforming), the Prem and the FL. And we dont have any single body overlooking the coaching of school kids.

the 3 bodies is a nice side issue, but its a distraction. the EPL and FL have very little to do with governance and rules and nothing to do with grass roots. they are both members of the FA.

so really, the point about the FA being reformed is the important issue, but no one with the power seems interested in doing so.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

I do wonder what the Euro qualifying team will look like. The current squad has proven over the past decade it is simply not up to it. And the players in the wings simply do not look good enough to be major trophy winners. There's talk of Zamora. I'd love him to play for England but in all seriousness he is not international level, well not the level we're needing if we seriously expect to win something.

I agree, would be great for him, and nice for us to boast about, but he is not really the quality that is needed. Mind you, you could argue he couldn't do any worse than this summers 23.

 

[Captain Haddock]

Can anyone really imagine England players having the passing skills and ball control of the current crop of Spaniards? They can do what they like in the Premier League, it won't make a jot of difference until kids are taught to actually control and pass the ball from a very young age. Some of our players may be able to raise their game to look half reasonable when surrounded by foreigners but a bunch of Englishmen in a team put under pressure by decent footballers lose all ball skills and treat the thing like a hot potato. As a nation we are not comfortable on the ball, those that are tend to be considered luxury players and discarded early on or ignored as not being good team players..

Spot on!

 

[Wilko]

A vast generalisation. We're good at queuing, which kinda blows your theory out the water. .

Not really, we will queue but with no patience and probably tutting or leaving the queue if we can't be bothered to wait.

But, I get your point, it is a bit of a generalisation but I do think it contributes to our game. Our climate must do too, how many lad playing Sunday league in February spend time stroking little passes across a lush pitch? Luzz it long to the big lad innit.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

This is not much more than a PR stunt by the FA, and the clubs will take the piss out of it like they always do, because they can't be bothered to invest in coaching kids from a young age.

The facts of the matter are, the "home grown" players only have to be registered with that club for 36 months prior to their 21st birthday, so in reality, the clubs can carry on snapping up French, Spanish and African 18 year olds like they have been doing forever. Under these rules, Fabregas is classed as home grown because he's been there that long, but did Arsenal develop him as a young lad? No, Barcelona did.

The rule is paying lip service to the idea of developing a generation of young English players, but when push comes to shove, the PL teams will keep on signing (and playing) 18 year old Nigerians, while occasionally nipping in to poach any half decent 16 year old from cash-strapped Football League clubs, before leaving them to rot in the reserves and eventually get loaned back to Swansea or Colchester or some such outpost until they're released at 19.

 

[Kazenga <3]

I'm not too sure on this as it will just end up with englishmen v englishmen. Yes it means there will be more englishmen playing but in a weakened league and we will not see the technical improvements unless football is changed at grass roots.

 

[Gwylan]

Not really, we will queue but with no patience and probably tutting or leaving the queue if we can't be bothered to wait.

But, I get your point, it is a bit of a generalisation but I do think it contributes to our game. Our climate must do too, how many lad playing Sunday league in February spend time stroking little passes across a lush pitch? Luzz it long to the big lad innit.

What about those of us who are not blessed with silky skills? Grass roots football has been designed for those with, er, limited ball control to get a game provided we're adept at something else (in my case, kicking people up in the air).

If we relied on the Spanish system, half of us would have to give up football and take up something else

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

the 3 bodies is a nice side issue, but its a distraction. the EPL and FL have very little to do with governance and rules and nothing to do with grass roots. they are both members of the FA.

so really, the point about the FA being reformed is the important issue, but no one with the power seems interested in doing so.

It's a lot more than a side issue or a distraction. When you have the two most powerful bodies in your sport pulling in very different directions then any progress will be difficult. And as far as I know it is only Sir Dave Richards and the Man U and Bolton chairmen from the Prem who are 3 board members from about 9-10 others. Their views are heard but they are still a minority. As far as I can see they just serve as a hinderance on the board.

As for the Prem and the FL having nothing to do with grass roots....all their member clubs run academies or centres of excellences. So I would say they are a very important and significant part of grass roots. Arguably they are at the top end of 'grass roots' and have the task of turning the best English kids into top English professionals. And here lies the problem. The Prem and FL run the academies....but the FA has no say in how they are run, how many people go through them, how many coaxhes they have etc etc. This is totally different in Germany where the DFB and the Bundesliga (top two leagues) work in harmony and the DFB have a significant say in how their academies are operated.

 

[beorhthelm]

As for the Prem and the FL having nothing to do with grass roots....all their member clubs run academies or centres of excellences. So I would say they are a very important and significant part of grass roots.

surely the grass roots starts at schools and under X clubs and saturday/sunday leagues in every town, not the club academies. theres talk about how many qualified coaches are in Spain and Germany, well thats where the FA focus should be, 8-16yo. you are giving them an easy excuse. forget the clubs, if they pick up the talent produced that no bad thing, get the coaching in place. who governs the top levels shouldnt really matter to what measures are in place to nurture talent.

 

[Yoda]

Premier League football news from the Barclays Premier League | Home-grown quota for Premier League

The definition of home grown is trained for three years under the age of 21 by somebody in the English and Welsh professional system.

Well, that's going to change f*** ALL then. Still doesn't stop clubs snapping up kids from abroad at 16 and then training them for the 3 years required.

 

[BensGrandad]

The answer to this is to follow Germany's way and put a top limit on wages so that every Francoise Petro & Gustav foreigner doesnt want to come and play here. That would mean more English/British players coming through and playing in the Premiership which in turn would improve the standard of the national sides in the UK. It will not happen unless it becomes rule that has to be adhered to by the Premier League.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

surely the grass roots starts at schools and under X clubs and saturday/sunday leagues in every town, not the club academies.

Yes, I did not suggest otherwise.

theres talk about how many qualified coaches are in Spain and Germany, well thats where the FA focus should be, 8-16yo.

Indeed. But Prem and FL academies cover this age range, and will arguably have the elite 8-16 players scouted, enrolled and coached and trained for their own needs. So how can the FA have focus here? How can the FA control or monitor progress? They cant. When it comes to coaching the elite youngsters they're at the whim of the Prem clubs.

forget the clubs, if they pick up the talent produced that no bad thing, get the coaching in place. who governs the top levels shouldnt really matter to what measures are in place to nurture talent.

No bad thing? On what grounds are you basing this? Or have I missed the conveyor belt of English talent emerging from the Premiership set-ups and seamlessly drifting into the England set up since 1992? Interesting year 1992. Two years after our post 1966 high-water mark. And things have been getting steadily worse ever since. Coincidence?

 

[beorhthelm]

No bad thing? On what grounds are you basing this? Or have I missed the conveyor belt of English talent emerging from the Premiership set-ups and seamlessly drifting into the England set up since 1992? Interesting year 1992. Two years after our post 1966 high-water mark. And things have been getting steadily worse ever since. Coincidence?

of course, the talent conveyor belt was running full tilt up until 1992... the blame it all on the premiership is tedious because it doesnt get anything moved forward. fine, carry on making an excuse. or we can call for the FA to do coaching and developement anyway, even if it means clubs pick up players later on for their academies (which i suggest is no bad thing, dont know how this was mis-read).

 

[Juan Albion]

So why are you all so bothered about international football? It's just a sideshow and should be treated as such. A local derby or a game for 3 vital points is far more exciting.

 

[BensGrandad]

So why are you all so bothered about international football? It's just a sideshow and should be treated as such. A local derby or a game for 3 vital points is far more exciting.

And more important if you asked most fans. I would rather BHA win Div 1 next season than England have won the World Cup

Most United fans would rather Rooney played well for United than England and the same Liverpool fans with Gerrard and Liverpool.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

of course, the talent conveyor belt was running full tilt up until 1992... the blame it all on the premiership is tedious because it doesnt get anything moved forward. fine, carry on making an excuse. or we can call for the FA to do coaching and developement anyway, even if it means clubs pick up players later on for their academies (which i suggest is no bad thing, dont know how this was mis-read).

At least we were able to sift through a half decent pool of fit players when forming a squad prior to 1992. We're so desperate these days the goalkeepers are chosen by default and we regularly take a number of crocked players to tournaments. At this world cup we took a striker who was 350/1 to be the top scorer, a defender who cannot train and has only played 3 games back-2-back once in the past 2-3 years and a slow clown who had retired from the international game years ago (and also claimed he didnt give a f**k about England). At the previous WC we took a player who had not even played in the top flight, and this is the worst, in one match squad the f**king Peterborough 'keeper popped up.

I did not mis-read your 'no bad thing' comment, I'm just puzzled why you think this? Especially when only two weeks ago the FA had to exert pressure on a couple of academies to release 4 players for u19 duty. It was only a potential public backlash in the aftermath of the WC debacle which freed them.

I'll end here as I've got other stuff to do today. If you think that all of England's woes will be solved simply by getting more coaches into schools then I feel you are wrong. It needs this plus a total sea-change in the way the Prem, FL and FA interact and operate plus a nationwide consistent, co-ordinated, structured and monitored program to identify, coach, nurture and progress young talent from a very young age right through to the first teams of pro clubs and then hopefully the England team. Everyone needs to be on the same side....then things might change.

 

[Gwylan]

... At the previous WC we took a player who had not even played in the top flight ...

He was our best player though - perhaps that alone tells us something about the Premiership

 

[Dandyman]

home grown and british/english/whatever at least 6 in the starting XI, to be brought in phases over a few years obviously as you probably could'nt do it straight away

Home grown works. Rules on nationality will only work if EU citizens are exempt.

 

[BensGrandad]

Home grown works. Rules on nationality will only work if EU citizens are exempt.

Or if a wage cap was introduced then they wouldnt want to come here.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

He was our best player though - perhaps that alone tells us something about the Premiership

? Not sure what you mean.