It may have been relevant 20 years ago, when to be a football fan meant in the eyes of the government and their appointees you were beneath contempt, but not now.
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Hillsborough Memorial day today
- Thread starter warsaw
- Start date
It may have been relevant 20 years ago, when to be a football fan meant in the eyes of the government and their appointees you were beneath contempt, but not now.
- Jul 7, 2003
- 47,499
Hmmm, even as a copper, I can see that the opening of the gate in Leppings Lane is the first step towards catastrophe in this particular situation.
I have no doubt the decision at the time was made with the best of intentions- it's well documented that the police were already concerned at that point with a large crush in Leppings Lane itself, as a result of the numbers of fans turning up, so who's to say something (albeit not as catastrophic) wouldn't have happened if they'd not done anything?
The key flaw in the decision, of course, is that once the gate was opened, there was nobody to stop people rushing to the central pens, thus causing the crush, and that's what the bloke giving the orders has failed to take into account. Likewise, I guess the police at the front of the terrace are so conditioned with the mentality that football fans have a tendency to be thugs who are only concerned with trying to get on the pitch, that they failed to recognise when there was a genuine problem. That's come from years of ingrained culture.
Hindsight, unfortunately, is a marvellous thing, and it took a tragedy of this magnitude for crowd control policies to be reconsidered, after decades of cliched thinking. At least (we hope) things have been learned as a result. I don't think there's many people out there who don't realise what the major contributory factors were towards this disaster by now.
I have no doubt the decision at the time was made with the best of intentions- it's well documented that the police were already concerned at that point with a large crush in Leppings Lane itself, as a result of the numbers of fans turning up, so who's to say something (albeit not as catastrophic) wouldn't have happened if they'd not done anything?
The key flaw in the decision, of course, is that once the gate was opened, there was nobody to stop people rushing to the central pens, thus causing the crush, and that's what the bloke giving the orders has failed to take into account. Likewise, I guess the police at the front of the terrace are so conditioned with the mentality that football fans have a tendency to be thugs who are only concerned with trying to get on the pitch, that they failed to recognise when there was a genuine problem. That's come from years of ingrained culture.
Hindsight, unfortunately, is a marvellous thing, and it took a tragedy of this magnitude for crowd control policies to be reconsidered, after decades of cliched thinking. At least (we hope) things have been learned as a result. I don't think there's many people out there who don't realise what the major contributory factors were towards this disaster by now.
I was at higbury watching us play newcastle, but my mum was very upset and i'll never forget that day, regardless of who is to blame lets hope it never happens again. Having said that liverpool fans were my first experience of nasty bastards at a match but when 96 people die in a stadium you have to look a bit deeper and question those in charge
Bwian
Kiss my (_!_)
- Jul 14, 2003
- 15,898
For the few on here:
In his interim report, Lord Justice Taylor concluded that the main cause of the disaster was overcrowding, and that the main reason was "a failure of police control". As the police neglected to manage the build-up of fans on the streets outside the Leppings Lane stand, the senior officer, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, ordered a large concertina gate leading into the ground to be opened. More than 2,000 people moved through the gate and into the Leppings Lane terrace, straight for the two packed central pens behind the goal: no one thought to direct them to the two outer pens, which were lightly populated. Swept along a narrow tunnel by a growing swell from behind, the fans ploughed into pens 3 and 4, unaware that their fellow supporters were being ground into the barriers, the fence, and each other.
Lord Justice Taylor stated of the senior officers on duty that "neither their handling of problems on the day nor their account of it in evidence showed the qualities of leadership to be expected of their rank". To this day, no one has ever been successfully prosecuted for the deaths of 96 people at Hillsborough.
Written by Professor Phil Scraton, Hillsborough: The Truth is recognised as the definitive analysis of the disaster, and all that followed. Commenting on the updated edition, Scraton says: "Twenty years on, many bereaved families and survivors are remarkably resilient. Yet beneath the surface lies unimaginable grief, compounded by an overwhelming sense of injustice. Brought together by an avoidable tragedy, they were treated appallingly on the day, then betrayed by a flawed investigation, inadequate inquests and a criminal justice system that protected the authorities. All police statements were reviewed and, in many cases, altered by a team of senior officers. Anger is understandably directed towards those responsible, those who made deceitful allegations against fans, and those who perpetuate the myth of hooliganism."
Is it any wonder Scousers won't let this disappear until Justice is done?
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,716
"Best intensions", well depends on your definition.
Advice given by another police officer to delay the kick off since it worked at the ground before to ease similiar congestion outside.
Ignored
Advice given by more than one stewards (who knew the ground well) not to open the gate because it would likely cause a crush inside, much worse than the one happening at the gate.
Stewards tried in vain not to hand over the keys.
Ignored
Gate opened, and less than an hour later, lied about.
I guess if I cross the road in front of a truck I have the "best intensions" of getting to the other side.
No wonder the families want justice.
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Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
South Yorkshire Police's main line of "justification" for this disaster was drunkeness on behalf of a large section of Liverpool fans who supposedly forced that exit gate open. Never proven, and the CCTV footage does nothing to support this. Subsequent statements confirmed that gate was opened, not forced, and nobody channelled the fans away from the central tunnell to the supporting pens.
Heads should have rolled over this, and they never did. And David Duckenfield took early retirement, on a full pension.
Heads should have rolled over this, and they never did. And David Duckenfield took early retirement, on a full pension.
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clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,716
Subsquent statements by Duckenfield himself confirmed he was lying.
Thing is, if you tell a porkie that big people start believing it.
You've only got to read this board....
Dick Knights Mumm
Take me Home Falmer Road
Word.
Northstander
Well-known member
- Oct 13, 2003
- 14,031
It was a disaster waiting to happen and changed football in the UK for the better, sad that it took 96 lives to do so. Additionally, it was happening all over the uk.
It nearly happened at Goldstone one summer against Bristol, thought I was on the way out against those damned fences!!
Nasty and scary that fans were seen at the time as people to be kept under control rather than safe!
RIP
It nearly happened at Goldstone one summer against Bristol, thought I was on the way out against those damned fences!!
Nasty and scary that fans were seen at the time as people to be kept under control rather than safe!
RIP
The Large One
Who's Next?
Anyone remember the FA Cup match at Peterborough in the snow in 1985? 1986?
Smythe
Active member
I think that pretty much somes it up.......Opening the outside gate was fine, providing the gate to the center pens had been closed off first...which it obviouly wasnt. Even with the amount of ticketless fans arriving there was loads of space in the outside pens.
B-Rad
New member
I was at Anfield yesterday. Was a big turnout and you could feel the emotion round the ground, very eery. RIP the 96