[Help] Have we been ripped off?

[Billy the Fish]

For £600 I reckon you could get a couple of German Goo Girls to turn up instead.

 

[Brian Fantana]

This makes no sense whatsoever!?! I think they are pulling your plonker mate. They've just used your ignorance and thrown in the word 'german' and 'special' to imply it must be high tech, quality & expensive. What they've sloshed in there is probably some standard self levelling sealant compound of some sort, it most definitely wouldn't cost £500 for a single length of short gutter. You sound like you want to believe them, they are clearly ripping you off.

This.

I had an almost identical job carried out last summer, including many of the specific circumstances of the OP such as it being a section of guttering that was fairly difficult to reach etc. I live in a different part of the country, but even taking that into account I paid £135 inc VAT for the work, which included them applying some levelling sealant.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Update after visit this morning...

The boss didn’t come so I still haven’t paid.

Youngish chap came on his own. He was assistant yesterday but has been promoted as the other bloke has left the company!

Very personable young man who answered my questions and did a good job.

1. Replacing the gutter was completely impossible. There is no plastic gutter there. It is all made of integrated lead sheeting (see photo) that would genuinely be an expensive nightmare to start messing around with.

2. The levelling was required due to bowing and pooling. The German goo is described as “very expensive liquid plastic”. But they only used “half a large tin” so I am clear that £500 for materials can’t be right.

3. The leaking/overflowing after rain yesterday was due to blocked downpipe - it was blocked at the bottom and completely full of water. He cleared it and resealed at the top.

4. I am happy they have done a decent job that needed doing. £200 for labour feels about right now after 3 visits (checking with Mrs G this morning, they were also here for an hour on a first visit when they partially cleared the gully

). Before paying, I intend to try and get clear information from the boss about the cost of the material used.

 

[FamilyGuy]

But is one of your gutters fiendishly inaccessible and impossible to replace without major accompanying building work?

No building work, but one side is only accessible from next doors garage roof due to the narrow passage alongside my house, and another is only accessible from my garage roof, and leaning across the passage on the other side.
Scaffold towers will be needed.

 

[Live by the sea]

Unfortunately there are some tradesmen that will take the piss if given the opportunity. The minority give the rest a bad name . Always agree a price beforehand .

 

[B-right-on]

Mrs G arranged for our local friendly builder/roofer to come and fix the gutter that runs between our house and conservatory.

One bloke came and worked for 90mins. He swept out the gutter and then “painted” it with some stuff he mixed up in a large bucket. A young lad carried a couple of things and watched.

£700.

Apparently the main cost was the stuff that he poured in/painted on... it “comes from Germany and costs £500”...

Am I right in smelling a Siberian hamster? Or does this sound legit?

ALL advice very welcome.

Not read thru all of the replies on here but I have done gutter repairs and replacements pretty exclusively for over 12 years and I can guarantee 100% that they are ripping you off.

If the gutters are asbestos or cast iron, there are a few products which can stick to the them and these are a primer \ top coat system which takes hours to dry between coats. Asbestos and cast iron gutters are prone to cracks and leaks, especially after 50 years or so.

If they are upvc gutters there is zero reason to paint them with anything. Upvc gutters don't crack unless hit. They fail at the joints where silicone or a new rubber seal is needed. Depends on access, type of gutters and so on, but I'd say you are looking at £100 to clean and repair a upvc gutter. Metal /asbestos more but nowhere near half of £700.

Sounds like your downpipe is blocked causing the water to run on the outside. I'd get it fixed as will cause damp issues.

I'd refuse to pay the bill. The only way he can enforce payment is thru the Small Claims court and that's a nightmare. With no quote agreed beforehand he has no hope of getting it approved.

I'd offer him £150 and tell him to F off

 

[jackanada]

One of the reasons I’m not so pissed off about being a victim of Dick Turpin is that, in the course of the 90mins he spent at our house, he pointed out a further problem that it is useful I know about.

The opening from the kitchen to the conservatory has a beam across it which is sagging so the mortar in the bricks above the gutter outside is opening up. (Without any additional charge he smeared some brown goo into the cracks.)

Sagging beam would be worrying me more than a bit of damp. That WILL need replacing with one that's properly specked.
The detailing in joining conservatory to house is flawed, regardless of what epoxy they've allegedly strengthened it with. It's probably running close to dead level so needs to be able to hold a much higher volume of water and be much better supported.

I'd really be thinking about how much I want that conservatory, do I want to alter it or make it a proper extension etc because at some point that dodgy beam is coming out and at least some of the conservatory with it.
Make a plan and then you can start budgeting towards it.

With regards to the chimney, yes painting/treating it was a good idea and has done the job. It shouldn't need redoing any more than any other outside paint though.

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

Update after visit this morning...

The boss didn’t come so I still haven’t paid.

Youngish chap came on his own. He was assistant yesterday but has been promoted as the other bloke has left the company!

Very personable young man who answered my questions and did a good job.

1. Replacing the gutter was completely impossible. There is no plastic gutter there. It is all made of integrated lead sheeting (see photo) that would genuinely be an expensive nightmare to start messing around with.

2. The levelling was required due to bowing and pooling. The German goo is described as “very expensive liquid plastic”. But they only used “half a large tin” so I am clear that £500 for materials can’t be right.

3. The leaking/overflowing after rain yesterday was due to blocked downpipe - it was blocked at the bottom and completely full of water. He cleared it and resealed at the top.

4. I am happy they have done a decent job that needed doing. £200 for labour feels about right now after 3 visits (checking with Mrs G this morning, they were also here for an hour on a first visit when they partially cleared the gully

). Before paying, I intend to try and get clear information from the boss about the cost of the material used.

Looking at your photo, there is a step in your back wall. The conservatory has a box gutter, an aluminiu one piece U shaped channel, which will not leak.
Because of the step in the wall, a timber packer has been used to allow the box gutter to be one straight run.
Lead flashing out of the wall has been dressed over the timber packer and into the box gutter.
The only place where you might get a leak is where the two lead pieces join. You might get some vegetation growing in the box gutter if moss or leaves blow into it,
this is easy to clean out from each end regularly.
The builders could of smeared some German gunk over the lead seam, but at a push I would say £200/£300 would cover the work undertaken maximum.

As an aside, wher was the sagging noticed, was it inside the conservatory, if so, it might need a gallows bracket below the box gutter inside the room.

 

[B-right-on]

Update after visit this morning...

The boss didn’t come so I still haven’t paid.

Youngish chap came on his own. He was assistant yesterday but has been promoted as the other bloke has left the company!

Very personable young man who answered my questions and did a good job.

1. Replacing the gutter was completely impossible. There is no plastic gutter there. It is all made of integrated lead sheeting (see photo) that would genuinely be an expensive nightmare to start messing around with.

2. The levelling was required due to bowing and pooling. The German goo is described as “very expensive liquid plastic”. But they only used “half a large tin” so I am clear that £500 for materials can’t be right.

3. The leaking/overflowing after rain yesterday was due to blocked downpipe - it was blocked at the bottom and completely full of water. He cleared it and resealed at the top.

4. I am happy they have done a decent job that needed doing. £200 for labour feels about right now after 3 visits (checking with Mrs G this morning, they were also here for an hour on a first visit when they partially cleared the gully

). Before paying, I intend to try and get clear information from the boss about the cost of the material used.

Just saw this. Yea would be a total nightmare to replace this

Find out what the 'expensive German stuff' is called as most products like Acrypol (acrylic based sealant) which are used for roof repairs, are useless on lead as it doesn't stick and it's £50 a tin. Never heard of £500 a tin stuff but not saying there isn't any around

On the downpipe/leak, is it possible that the whole problem was caused by the blockage in the downpipe and the rainwater simply backed up and came over?

Seen this dozens of times. Also blocked soakaway or underground pipes can cause the same thing.

 

[Bodian]

The last bloke who cleaned out my gutter charged £10 for the front, £10 for the back, and used a very long ladder and a pair of thick gloves. He obviously forgot the German goo.

(He got a further £10 for removing a dead pigeon that was overhanging from my neighbour's gutter and would, eventually, have fallen into my garden. Talk about lucky that he knocked on my door the same evening after the pigeon died that morning. If the gutter had been visible from any road, I might have been suspicious.)

He carries that pigeon around with him......

 

[B-right-on]

One of the reasons I’m not so pissed off about being a victim of Dick Turpin is that, in the course of the 90mins he spent at our house, he pointed out a further problem that it is useful I know about.

The opening from the kitchen to the conservatory has a beam across it which is sagging so the mortar in the bricks above the gutter outside is opening up. (Without any additional charge he smeared some brown goo into the cracks.)

I'm smelling more BS here, sorry. By the 'sagging', does he mean the cement above the lead where he has put the grey silicone sealant in this photo?



If so, cement cracking above lead flashing is a very common occurrence due to the lead expansion and contraction in the summer. Means absolutely nothing, the gaps in the brickwork don't look over large and no other cracks above from 'sagging' brickwor like you'd expect to see. Sagging beam is a load of b0llocks imo.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Sagging beam would be worrying me more than a bit of damp. That WILL need replacing with one that's properly specked.
The detailing in joining conservatory to house is flawed, regardless of what epoxy they've allegedly strengthened it with. It's probably running close to dead level so needs to be able to hold a much higher volume of water and be much better supported.

I'd really be thinking about how much I want that conservatory, do I want to alter it or make it a proper extension etc because at some point that dodgy beam is coming out and at least some of the conservatory with it.
Make a plan and then you can start budgeting towards it.

With regards to the chimney, yes painting/treating it was a good idea and has done the job. It shouldn't need redoing any more than any other outside paint though.

Yes, sagging beam is a big concern (not yet shared with Mrs G..!!).

Conservatory is very nice so don’t want to change it.

Bloke said it would cost about £5K to fix the beam. Does that sound right?

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

Yes, sagging beam is a big concern (not yet shared with Mrs G..!!).

Conservatory is very nice so don’t want to change it.

Bloke said it would cost about £5K to fix the beam. Does that sound right?

Did you have the conservatory built or was it there when you purchased the house?
Was there a patio door or widow there originally or was the aperture widened?
Did you not see if a lintle was fitted? Even before it was plastered you would see a lintle or RSJ.?
Are there any cracks at the coving line or above below a window or at the skirting line, upstairs?
If none, might just be a crappy spread.
k5 does sound very expensive.

 

[schmunk]

I'm smelling more BS here, sorry. By the 'sagging', does he mean the cement above the lead where he has put the grey silicone sealant in this photo?

View attachment 137795

If so, cement cracking above lead flashing is a very common occurrence due to the lead expansion and contraction in the summer. Means absolutely nothing, the gaps in the brickwork don't look over large and no other cracks above from 'sagging' brickwor like you'd expect to see. Sagging beam is a load of b0llocks imo.

You need to concentrate on more important problems in your life.

20% battery at 10:22?

 

[Bodian]

I'm smelling more BS here, sorry. By the 'sagging', does he mean the cement above the lead where he has put the grey silicone sealant in this photo?

If so, cement cracking above lead flashing is a very common occurrence due to the lead expansion and contraction in the summer. Means absolutely nothing, the gaps in the brickwork don't look over large and no other cracks above from 'sagging' brickwor like you'd expect to see. Sagging beam is a load of b0llocks imo.

Now - I didn't know that. Would that be why my [Heath Robinson] conservatory leaks about two years after I have repainted outside and put yet more silcone in along the flashing. It's actually that the flashing expands and contracts, leaves a little gap, and then the water gets in? If flashing is put in during the summer - will it contract in the winter enough to let water seep round it?

 

[jackanada]

Yes, sagging beam is a big concern (not yet shared with Mrs G..!!).

Conservatory is very nice so don’t want to change it.

Bloke said it would cost about £5K to fix the beam. Does that sound right?

It sounds high but you have to compare like with like.
Where one person may quote just to replace the beam and dry pack it another may be including all the making good and redecorating and engineers calcs and building control etc

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Are there any cracks at the coving line or above below a window or at the skirting line, upstairs?
If none, might just be a crappy spread.
k5 does sound very expensive.

Conservatory was added around 20 years ago.

Sagging of beam is visible - just measured 5mm lower in middle compared to ends - and there is already a crack in fresh paintwork on the underside of it.

What is a “crappy spread”?

Bloke described need to remove bricks from wall above and replace beam. TBF he said £3-5K so pleased to hear it is probably low end of that.

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

Conservatory was added around 20 years ago.

Sagging of beam is visible - just measured 5mm lower in middle compared to ends - and there is already a crack in fresh paintwork on the underside of it.

What is a “crappy spread”?

Bloke described need to remove bricks from wall above and replace beam. TBF he said £3-5K so pleased to hear it is probably low end of that.

Crappy spread is a poor plasterer.
If you have the conservatory installed, what was in the wall originally, patio doors or window? Or did you have opening made wider.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Crappy spread is a poor plasterer.
If you have the conservatory installed, what was in the wall originally, patio doors or window? Or did you have opening made wider.

We didn’t install. Suspect opening was widened when conservatory added.

Had full survey when buying house. Vaguely remember width of opening was an issue but thought that was more to do with energy efficiency.

 

[sydney]

Mrs G arranged for our local friendly builder/roofer to come and fix the gutter that runs between our house and conservatory.

One bloke came and worked for 90mins. He swept out the gutter and then “painted” it with some stuff he mixed up in a large bucket. A young lad carried a couple of things and watched.

£700.

Apparently the main cost was the stuff that he poured in/painted on... it “comes from Germany and costs £500”...

Am I right in smelling a Siberian hamster? Or does this sound legit?

ALL advice very welcome.

the siberian hamster in itself is a myth , i think you have probably encountered the shoreham shyster or the chichester chancer , the worthing wrongun or the wivelsfiel wanker........either way sound like you have been well and truly had....