[Albion] Have Albion progressed this season?

[Washie]

I think TB’s aiming/aspiring for 5 years maximum.

Beyond 5 years is too long a period for a business plan, too many unpredictables farther than that.

But it isnt a plan, its a dream. If he truly believes we can become an established top 10 club without the budget to keep us there, then his dream will never be realised. But in no way is it a 5 year plan.

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[b.w.2.]

But it isnt a plan, its a dream. If he truly believes we can become an established top 10 club without the budget to keep us there, then his dream will never be realised. But in no way is it a 5 year plan.

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It is a goal. More than a dream. And 5 years is correct. And the goal was set a while ago now. We are doing okay. In fact, we are very close, with just one piece of the jigsaw missing. Thank God you are not in charge or we would still be in the lower leagues or worse.


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[Weststander]

We may be fortunate enough to finish there once but it will be nigh on impossible to sustain. To regularly finish top half of the PL means that you have to outperform at least one of the Shameful Six plus Everton plus Leicester, every season. There will always be a couple of ' other clubs ' that overachieve and finish top half and outachieve you. As has been stated on here, there are a minimum 8 clubs in the PL that will always have more resource and better players than us. That means we are effectively in a 12 team mini league. Our aim should be to be in the top half of that mini league and to finish anywhere from 14th to 9th. Thats a six position interchange each season. Staying out of trouble but not getting ahead of ourselves. Not setting unrealistic targets.
I measure progression a little differently to many on this thread. I thought, initially we would do well to stay in the top flight for three seasons. We are now approaching our fifth successive season. To me, that alone is progress. As each season goes by, we are learning a little bit more and a little bit better how to survive. How to put those mini clusters of results together at key times. We will always have poor mini runs ( 4-5 games ) Its inevitable. We seem to be able to bounce back a bit better now. We are definitely more competitive now. There were so many comfortable 0-2 defeats under CH, where the opposition coasted to victory.
I feel more comfortable with consolidation than progression. Small steps. Marginal gains. Not big leaps forward followed by inevitable disappointment and frustrated expectations. It is fine margins at this level and it only takes a small change in the dynamic to see a difference. Selling key players. Replacements not quite delivering. Long term injuries. Management change. If you haven't got mega resource to deal with all of this, then the job is harder.
The manager is still learning and the players are still learning. Slow and steady, season by season. Football history dictates that most clubs have a finite life at this level. Many clubs who did 5-10 seasons unbroken in the PL are now in the lower reaches of the leagues. It can change very quickly. One of the biggest failings is fans of those clubs taking their place in the PL for granted and then demanding more and more. Boards and owners losing their nerve, panicking and looking for different fixes.
We have to be aware that one day our time will probably be up and we will have to regroup. Lets hope that that is a little way off yet.

Excellent post. I’d guess that the majority of fans (not just those posting here) would concord with this review of the past 4 seasons and what’s achievable for us on our budget. All well and good pushing for an Europa League football, but I’m happy with gradual improvements, consolidation. Anything more’s a bonus. Simply, more EPL wins would be a huge boon for me.

 

[Washie]

It is a goal. More than a dream. And 5 years is correct. And the goal was set a while ago now. We are doing okay. In fact, we are very close, with just one piece of the jigsaw missing. Thank God you are not in charge or we would still be in the lower leagues or worse.


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What the **** are you on about, i'm talking about him offering more towards budget, as we won't be top 10 without it

 

[Weststander]

It is a goal. More than a dream. And 5 years is correct. And the goal was set a while ago now. We are doing okay. In fact, we are very close, with just one piece of the jigsaw missing. Thank God you are not in charge or we would still be in the lower leagues or worse.


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This. It’s a plan.

It won’t necessarily be met in a fiercely competitive and monied EPL, but it’s part of the strategy set from the top, something to aim for, with planning (transfers in and out, youth set up, commercial activities) below that built around it.

 

[chaileyjem]

This. It’s a plan.

It won’t necessarily be met in a fiercely competitive and monied EPL, but it’s part of the strategy set from the top, something to aim for, with planning (transfers in and out, youth set up, commercial activities) below that built around it.

Agreed. I'm perplexed at the rush to paint this as hubris on Bloom's part as if a desire to progress and set out a plan is to be criticised mercilessly just because we've lost 1-0 to Sheff Utd.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I sometimes suspect a lot of the fun for Tony is the challenge.


There is little fun for him just chucking money at it. What a dull game. Leave that to the PetroStates.


We mustn't forget "Top 10" was before pandemic, and currently we are just 4 unlucky results v West Brom and Palace away from being within touching distance of it.

 

[vagabond]

I think TB’s aiming/aspiring for 5 years maximum.

Beyond 5 years is too long a period for a business plan, too many unpredictables farther than that.

It’s definitely over 5 years. He gave GP a 7 year contract for one (obviously we’re now a year or two in) and the Amex sponsorship is 12 years.

He mentioned in the article linked above how he was looking 10 years ahead at one point. This is a very long term vision way beyond 5 years IMO.

 

[Guinness Boy]

This. It’s a plan.

It won’t necessarily be met in a fiercely competitive and monied EPL, but it’s part of the strategy set from the top, something to aim for, with planning (transfers in and out, youth set up, commercial activities) below that built around it.

Agreed. I'm perplexed at the rush to paint this as hubris on Bloom's part as if a desire to progress and set out a plan is to be criticised mercilessly just because we've lost 1-0 to Sheff Utd.

It’s definitely over 5 years. He gave GP a 7 year contract for one (obviously we’re now a year or two in) and the Amex sponsorship is 12 years.

He mentioned in the article linked above how he was looking 10 years ahead at one point. This is a very long term vision way beyond 5 years IMO.

Absolutely no doubt in my mind it's a plan aligned to the business plan for the club and they do tend to be over 5 years.

However, while you can look at the second year with a reasonable degree of certainty, the longer it goes out the more of a projection it is. When I was at a (very small) software company a few years ago I sat in every board meeting as I reported straight in to them. "Business Plan Review" was a standing item on the agenda. It was looked at every month.

I assume that a fairly big replan was done when we got promoted. The question is whether the "top ten" ambition was projected five years from promotion or whether new plans were effectively put in place once both DA and GP arrived (and obviously there will have been big adjustments to things like projected income once Covid took hold).

If the plan largely assumed steady Premier League progress under Hughton then you can see why he was jettisoned at the end of season two. So, I guess, the question is whether things were reset for GP's arrival. If they were then I'd certainly accept I've been over angsty and cut him a bit more slack. If, however, the appointments of GP and DA were to get the original plan back on track then there's still a fair bit of heavy lifting to do next season.

We mere mortals won't know of course. Only the board and those reporting to them will, and that's the way it should be. The bottom line is I completely accept that there should be gradual progress rather than bankrupting the club, but still there will be dates and milestones as per any plan.

 

[Weststander]

Absolutely no doubt in my mind it's a plan aligned to the business plan for the club and they do tend to be over 5 years.

However, while you can look at the second year with a reasonable degree of certainty, the longer it goes out the more of a projection it is. When I was at a (very small) software company a few years ago I sat in every board meeting as I reported straight in to them. "Business Plan Review" was a standing item on the agenda. It was looked at every month.

I assume that a fairly big replan was done when we got promoted. The question is whether the "top ten" ambition was projected five years from promotion or whether new plans were effectively put in place once both DA and GP arrived (and obviously there will have been big adjustments to things like projected income once Covid took hold).

If the plan largely assumed steady Premier League progress under Hughton then you can see why he was jettisoned at the end of season two. So, I guess, the question is whether things were reset for GP's arrival. If they were then I'd certainly accept I've been over angsty and cut him a bit more slack. If, however, the appointments of GP and DA were to get the original plan back on track then there's still a fair bit of heavy lifting to do next season.

We mere mortals won't know of course. Only the board and those reporting to them will, and that's the way it should be. The bottom line is I completely accept that there should be gradual progress rather than bankrupting the club, but still there will be dates and milestones as per any plan.

We're all guessing I realise, but I would imagine that the business plan is completely updated and extended one year, annually. Altered to known actuals as the starting point, with variables adjusted as new information is known. No doubt the effect of the pandemic meant a complete rejig. Also (for example) they wouldn't have known last summer that Bissouma would so quickly have an OMV of say £45m and be sought after.

With a contingency business plan in case we were relegated. No way would TB/PB ignore that potential outcome.

 

[blue-shifted]

Absolutely no doubt in my mind it's a plan aligned to the business plan for the club and they do tend to be over 5 years.

However, while you can look at the second year with a reasonable degree of certainty, the longer it goes out the more of a projection it is. When I was at a (very small) software company a few years ago I sat in every board meeting as I reported straight in to them. "Business Plan Review" was a standing item on the agenda. It was looked at every month.

I assume that a fairly big replan was done when we got promoted. The question is whether the "top ten" ambition was projected five years from promotion or whether new plans were effectively put in place once both DA and GP arrived (and obviously there will have been big adjustments to things like projected income once Covid took hold).

If the plan largely assumed steady Premier League progress under Hughton then you can see why he was jettisoned at the end of season two. So, I guess, the question is whether things were reset for GP's arrival. If they were then I'd certainly accept I've been over angsty and cut him a bit more slack. If, however, the appointments of GP and DA were to get the original plan back on track then there's still a fair bit of heavy lifting to do next season.

We mere mortals won't know of course. Only the board and those reporting to them will, and that's the way it should be. The bottom line is I completely accept that there should be gradual progress rather than bankrupting the club, but still there will be dates and milestones as per any plan.

Plan is the wrong word and the comparison you make with the business you worked with is the wrong one.

The club have used the word "aim" or "aspiration" rather than plan.

The word plan infers that you can consciously take a choice to go in one direction or the other.

The football club aim to get into the top 10, then establish themselves, but they've been clear they are not putting a timescale on this. In addition to stating that there aren't timescales the club have also acknowledged that this won't be linear, they've said on the matter that even if relegated the plan would remain the same. What they are doing is putting the apparatus in place to at least make it possible. Whether it happens is down to a lot of luck and a lot of circumstances out of their control.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Plan is the wrong word and the comparison you make with the business you worked with is the wrong one.

The club have used the word "aim" or "aspiration" rather than plan.

The word plan infers that you can consciously take a choice to go in one direction or the other.

The football club aim to get into the top 10, then establish themselves, but they've been clear they are not putting a timescale on this. In addition to stating that there aren't timescales the club have also acknowledged that this won't be linear, they've said on the matter that even if relegated the plan would remain the same. What they are doing is putting the apparatus in place to at least make it possible. Whether it happens is down to a lot of luck and a lot of circumstances out of their control.

Completely wrong.

Where we finish determines other lines in the continuing business plan since it will affect the prize money we receive for sure and the number of televised games for almost sure. In normal times you'd have to factor in match by match spend. A really good season will see an actual packed stadium and high demand for branded goodies. A really bad one? Not so much.

Without projected and actual income and expenditure you can't manage a business.

 

[blue-shifted]

Completely wrong.

Where we finish determines other lines in the continuing business plan since it will affect the prize money we receive for sure and the number of televised games for almost sure. In normal times you'd have to factor in match by match spend. A really good season will see an actual packed stadium and high demand for branded goodies. A really bad one? Not so much.

Without projected and actual income and expenditure you can't manage a business.

A bit charmless

 

[chaileyjem]

So, I guess, the question is whether things were reset for GP's arrival. If they were then I'd certainly accept I've been over angsty and cut him a bit more slack..

I'm fairly certain that the aspiration to finish in the top 10 as a "stretching target" as Barber put it - was first mentioned in the summer of 2019 - ie: post Hughton - when Bloom/Barber did pre season interviews including the Radio Sussex Fans forum. And also after the announcement of the new lucrative AMEX sponsorship.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49294235.amp

 

[Guinness Boy]

I'm fairly certain that the aspiration to finish in the top 10 as a "stretching target" as Barber put it - was first mentioned in the summer of 2019 - ie: post Hughton - when Bloom/Barber did pre season interviews including the Radio Sussex Fans forum. And also after the announcement of the new lucrative AMEX sponsorship.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49294235.amp

It would be completely hubristic to announce that the top ten was a target at the start of your first season back in the top flight for over 30 years so I wouldn't have expected any such claim at that point. Equally, I think it's a good bet that calling it out as part of the announcement of a new manager (or just after he's started) is also a good way to calm down anyone attached to the old guy and really present the new man as the coach to take it forward. (That, incidentally is probably why I'm tough on Potter, from those announcements I saw him as the man). That doesn't mean there wasn't at least an optimistic plan earlier, but as I said, we'll never know. This is only in the board room stuff.

It does pose the thought that Hughton thought it couldn't be done on the budget and Potter had credible ideas in either his interview or first weeks as to how it could be. That again explains the change (beyond the poor games as we ultimately did survive). But, again, I suspect that will remain between those intimately involved in the appointment and, as ever, I'm speculating on a message board.

 

[b.w.2.]

What the **** are you on about, i'm talking about him offering more towards budget, as we won't be top 10 without it

WTF. The claim was made that our goal was not a goal but some airy fairy dream to be achieved over a gazillion years. I corrected that. You reacted weirdly.


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[Seasidesage]

As a Top 10 finish is going to take at least a top 12 budget, its asking a lot to bump the correlation between budget and league position much more than that. We are clearly going to need some successful sales to boost our budget to those sort of levels. I'd say that means we are at least 2/3 seasons from the mythical top 10 finish even assuming we sell and buy well in that period

 

[London Irish]

We’re closer to about the same than any noticeable improvement. Some improvement to defence, gone backwards in striking department, slight improvement in midfield but I really liked Mooy. Not a lot in it

 

[albionalex]

As a Top 10 finish is going to take at least a top 12 budget, its asking a lot to bump the correlation between budget and league position much more than that. We are clearly going to need some successful sales to boost our budget to those sort of levels. I'd say that means we are at least 2/3 seasons from the mythical top 10 finish even assuming we sell and buy well in that period

Burnley have finished in the top 10 in two of the last four seasons.

 

[crodonilson]

Burnley have finished in the top 10 in two of the last four seasons.

Playing the 2nd worst football in the league, in keeping with the town. We're a far more progressive easy on the rye outfit, and our structure lends itself to more long term success than that of 'Burnley'.