Greece crisis: Europe on edge over snap election

[symyjym]

I don't doubt the sentiment of your post but I'm pretty sure Barclays didn't receive a public bailout - it went back to the markets for investment and had billions pumped in from the oil rich Middle East backers.

Possibly, it was just something that came up on facebook, so not researched by myself.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Even in poker bluffing has its limits, and the EU should finally call Greeks' bluff.

The Union cannot works this way, it cannot bow down to every wish of populists just to avoid some, by and large, imaginary destabilisation of the eurozone. Greek GNP is around 1.5% of the overall EU GNP, so even in the worst case scenario there will be no major destabilisation of European economy. Europe is about honesty and integrity, it's about proper standards of banking, business and administration culture; these standards made Europe what it is today--a place where people from all over the world come to live, work and build better future for their families. If a country shows open despise for the the aforementioned pillars of European culture, it should seriously reconsider its membership in the EU.

If Greeks are allowed to get away with this, if Syriza is allowed to get away with this, then we have populists in other countries waiting to follow in Greek footsteps in foreseeable fututre, and that would mean a complete and utter disaster for Europe.

Agree.

 

[beorhthelm]

View attachment 66694

dont know your source, but that list of "bailouts" is ficticous. one of note, Bank of Scotland, doesnt even exist as unique entity (merged into HBoS about 2001), and Lehman Brothers was allowed to go to the wall.

 

[TomandJerry]

There has been no official reaction from the Kremlin yet about the Greek vote, writes Shaun Walker, but Russia has been watching the drama unfold between Athens and Brussels with some interest, and Greek prime minister Alexis Tsipras has made two visits to Moscow in recent months to make the point that Greece could seek alternative creditors. He has left with little in the way of concrete commitments, however.

A summit of the BRICS group of nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) will be held in the Russian city of Ufa later this week and Greece is likely to be on the agenda. Various ideas have been floated in recent weeks, including making Greece a member of the club, which would give it access to loans from the newly founded BRICS development bank.

However, while Moscow might be keen on the idea for political reasons, Russia is also still in a difficult financial situation, and the other BRICS members may well be less keen.

 

[wellquickwoody]

View attachment 66694

Even if this list was correct, which it isn't, these banks would have had restrictions and conditions placed upon them before receiving the money. That is the bit that the Greeks will not accept.

 

[TomandJerry]

Spain’s economy minister Luis de Guindos has echoed that Greece should remain part of the eurozone and the euro is irreversible.

He said the Spanish government was open to negotiating a third bailout, and any new Greek package should include a comprehensive analysis of Greek needs.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Spain’s economy minister Luis de Guindos has echoed that Greece should remain part of the eurozone and the euro is irreversible.

He said the Spanish government was open to negotiating a third bailout, and any new Greek package should include a comprehensive analysis of Greek needs.

And there is a perfect example of two things :

1. The EU not even able to agree what the rules are. Some have said Greece could drop out and now this fella saying it's impossible to drop out.

2. The arrogance of the EU thinking that a country can't decide to leave the eurozone - of course they can.

 

[Guy Crouchback]

The arrogance of the EU thinking that a country can't decide to leave the eurozone - of course they can.

But Tsipras himself keeps saying that the EU can't force Greece out of the eurozone because that would be against the law (he doesn't say which law exactly), whilst at the same time he disregards financial rules and laws himself pretty much in the same way previous Greek governments have been in recent years. Greeks know very well that going back to drachma would mean bankruptcy of thousands of businesses, sky-high inflation and even higher unemployment, and that's why they want to stay in the eurozone. What they don't want to do is to pay back their debts or accept austerity measures, hence their gamble and the attempt to terrify Europe with "destabilisation" and "the fall of the European Project" in order to receive more and more bailout money. The best thing to do now would be to call their bluff and let them go bankrupt--in the long run it will be healthier for both the eurozone and Greece.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But Tsipras himself keeps saying that the EU can't force Greece out of the eurozone because that would be against the law (he doesn't say which law exactly), whilst at the same time he disregards financial rules and laws himself pretty much in the same way previous Greek governments have been in recent years. Greeks know very well that going back to drachma would mean bankruptcy of thousands of businesses, sky-high inflation and even higher unemployment, and that's why they want to stay in the eurozone. What they don't want to do is to pay back their debts or accept austerity measures, hence their gamble and the attempt to terrify Europe with "destabilisation" and "the fall of the European Project" in order to receive more and more bailout money. The best thing to do now would be to call their bluff and let them go bankrupt--in the long run it will be healthier for both the eurozone and Greece.

Agree

 

[Westdene Seagull]

But Tsipras himself keeps saying that the EU can't force Greece out of the eurozone because that would be against the law (he doesn't say which law exactly), whilst at the same time he disregards financial rules and laws himself pretty much in the same way previous Greek governments have been in recent years.

You're twisting what I posted - I didn't comment on it being possible for Greece to be kicked out and nor did the Spanish minister - he suggested Greece couldn't DECIDE to leave voluntarily. Which of course is utter rubbish - they only need to create their own currency and away they go. Whether it would be a good idea is another thing entirely.

 

[Guy Crouchback]

I didn't comment on it being possible for Greece to be kicked out and nor did the Spanish minister - he suggested Greece couldn't DECIDE to leave voluntarily. Which of course is utter rubbish - they only need to create their own currency and away they go.

I misunderstood your post, sorry. Of course, Greeks can go back to drachma voluntarily and it would be a very wise choice in the long run (despite the initial cost to Greek economy).

 

[Monsieur Le Plonk]

You're twisting what I posted - I didn't comment on it being possible for Greece to be kicked out and nor did the Spanish minister - he suggested Greece couldn't DECIDE to leave voluntarily. Which of course is utter rubbish - they only need to create their own currency and away they go. Whether it would be a good idea is another thing entirely.

I agree.
The Greek banks are running dry, some say they will be empty by tomorrow. The creditors will then just watch as the pain really starts to hit the civilians, expecting the Greek government to cave in to each and every demand so that the lifeline can be extended.
Well feck that. Call their bluff and start printing drachmas now just to get a bit of cash flushing through their system so that shops and businesses can operate at a local level?.
Totally illegal within the framework of the EU membership of course but these are desperate times for desperate people whereby polite dialogue and patient diplomacy is going to lead to ruin for the Greeks.
Sure Greece is the architect of it's current position but it now needs to stop playing by the rules for the welfare of it's own citizens.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

There has been no official reaction from the Kremlin yet about the Greek vote, writes Shaun Walker, but Russia has been watching the drama unfold between Athens and Brussels with some interest, and Greek prime minister Alexis Tsipras has made two visits to Moscow in recent months to make the point that Greece could seek alternative creditors. He has left with little in the way of concrete commitments, however.

A summit of the BRICS group of nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) will be held in the Russian city of Ufa later this week and Greece is likely to be on the agenda. Various ideas have been floated in recent weeks, including making Greece a member of the club, which would give it access to loans from the newly founded BRICS development bank.

However, while Moscow might be keen on the idea for political reasons, Russia is also still in a difficult financial situation, and the other BRICS members may well be less keen.

Luckily Putin is running out of money hand over fist, and to help Greece he'll have to cut back his own military budget - which is a good thing in itself.

 

[TomandJerry]

Greek debt reduction not on Germany's agenda

Following the*downbeat comments earlier from German government spokesman Steffen Seibert, the country’s finance ministry has now said a reduction in Greece’s debt mountain is not on Germany’s agenda

 

[Lower West Stander]

The fact that the markets are only slightly down this morning tells you everything you need to know.

They either:

1. Underestimate the likelihood and effect of a Grexit.
2. Don't have a clue.
3. Don't care.

I suspect its a combination of 2&3. Greece is a basket case and an irrelevance. Its the knock on effect to Spain, Portugal and Italy we need to worry about

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

If the Greeks have any sense at all they won't start calling general strikes left right and centre over the summer because the tourist euros are the only euros they're likely to be getting before the autumn and the last thing they want to be doing is cutting off the supply of tourists.

 

[beorhthelm]

The fact that the markets are only slightly down this morning tells you everything you need to know.

They either:

1. Underestimate the likelihood and effect of a Grexit.
2. Don't have a clue.
3. Don't care.

or
4. consequences are already largely priced in.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If the Greeks have any sense at all they won't start calling general strikes left right and centre over the summer because the tourist euros are the only euros they're likely to be getting before the autumn and the last thing they want to be doing is cutting off the supply of tourists.

Judging by the past 6 months I think sense is in short supply.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Judging by the past 6 months I think sense is in short supply.

Good point, well made

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

Ironically, this may actually be good news for David Cameron. It gives him a potential trump card.

I'm sure the EU don't want to lose Greece but if that happens it won't be such a disaster for Europe.

But if Cameron doesn't get the reforms he wants and loses the UK referndum on Europe that will be a whole different kettle of fish. Much as they may not like it personally, I suspect that most EU leaders will now bend over backwards to make sure UK stays in, they certainly will want to do petty much everything possible to make sure UK doesn't follow Greece by leaving so soon after, even under completely different circumstances.

If I was Cameron I would hold the UK referendum as soon as possible.