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Freeman of The City of London



Brian Fantana

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2006
7,495
In the field
Not trying to blow my out trumpet or anything, but I am becoming a Freeman of The City of London in two weeks time by patrimony. I will be a Freeman of the Merchant Taylors' Livery Company.

Just wondered if there any other Albion fans who are Freemen or indeed Liverymen?
 








Lady Whistledown

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
47,501
I am GENUINELY interested to know. I feel quite daunted by the whole thing so to find another Albion fan would be nice.

It can't be that daunting surely?

What does this entitle you to? Is it one of those things whereby you can graze your flock on Hampstead Heath, or hang a Scotsman on the third Wednesday of each month, so long as he isn't wearing roller skates?
 


Brian Fantana

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2006
7,495
In the field
It can't be that daunting surely?

What does this entitle you to? Is it one of those things whereby you can graze your flock on Hampstead Heath, or hang a Scotsman on the third Wednesday of each month, so long as he isn't wearing roller skates?

I really don't know much about it. I was hoping to find another Albion fan who might be able to tell more more about it.
 




Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
71,973
Not trying to blow my out trumpet or anything, but I am becoming a Freeman of The City of London in two weeks time by patrimony. I will be a Freeman of the Merchant Taylors' Livery Company.

Just wondered if there any other Albion fans who are Freemen or indeed Liverymen?


Isn't EVERYBODY? :rolleyes:
 


Lady Whistledown

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
47,501
The 108 Livery Companies are trade associations based in the City of London, almost all of which are known as the "Worshipful Company of" the relevant trade or profession. The Livery Companies originally developed as guilds and were responsible for the regulation of their trades, controlling, for instance, wages and labour conditions. Some Livery Companies (for example, the Scriveners) continue to have a regulatory role today, and some (for example, the Longbow Makers) have become inoperative except as charitable foundations. Most Livery Companies, particularly those formed in recent years, are primarily charitable organizations. The active Livery Companies also play an important part in social life and networking in the City of London. They have a long history of cultural patronage.

After the Fan Makers were established in 1709 (and later granted Livery in 1809), no new companies were formed for almost 200 years until the Master Mariners in 1926 (Livery in 1932). Post-1926 companies are called Modern livery companies. Formed in 1999, The Company of Security Professionals became the 108th Livery Company on 19th February 2008 when the Court of Aldermen of the City of London Corporation approved the Petition for Livery. In recent years, many professions (such as Solicitors and Chartered Accountants) have established new guilds with the aim of being granted Livery, the most recent being the Tax Advisers (formed as a Guild in 1995 and granted Livery in 2005).[citation needed] As of 2008 there are two old bodies which, for historical reasons, are recognized as City Companies without Livery; three further guilds (Educators, Public Relations Practitioners and Arts Scholars, Dealers and Collectors) aim to obtain a grant of Livery.

Governance
Livery Companies are governed by a Master (known in some Companies as the Prime Warden), a number of Wardens (who may be known as the Upper, Middle, Lower, or Renter Wardens), and a Court of Assistants, which elects the Master and Wardens. The chief executive officer of the Company is known as the Clerk.

Members generally fall into two categories: freemen and liverymen. One may become a freeman, or acquire the "Freedom of the Company", upon fulfilling the Company's criteria; traditionally, one may be admitted by "patrimony" if either parent was a liverymen of the company, by "servitude" if one has served as an apprentice in the trade for the requisite number of years, or by "redemption" if one pays a fee. (The Company may also vote to admit individuals as honorary freemen.) Freemen generally advance to becoming liverymen by a vote of the Court of the Company. Historically, only liverymen could take part in the election of the Lord Mayor of the City of London.


Livery halls
Many companies still have a hall, where members and their guests can be entertained and company business transacted. Among the earliest companies known to have possessed halls were the Merchant Taylors and Goldsmiths in the 14th century, but neither their nor other companies' original halls remain; the few survivors of the Great Fire were destroyed, along with many reconstructed ones, during the Blitz. Today, only 40 companies have halls in London. Companies that do not have their own hall usually borrow one of the other companies' premises for social occasions.


Precedence
In 1515, the Court of Aldermen of the City of London settled an order of precedence for the forty-eight Livery Companies then in existence, which was based on the Companies' economic or political power. The first 12 Livery Companies are known as the Great Twelve City Livery Companies. There are now one hundred and eight Livery Companies, some of recent formation, so the Order of Precedence is sometimes reviewed. However, the Merchant Taylors and the Skinners have always disputed their precedence, so once a year (at Easter) they exchange sixth and seventh place. This is one of the theories for the origin of the phrase "at sixes and sevens", as the master of the Merchant Taylors has asserted a number of times, although the first use of the phrase may have been before the Taylors and the Skinners decided to alternate their position [1]. Both companies had been founded before the birth of Chaucer, who was one of the first people to use the phrase, so this may have dated from before him.


:thumbsup:

Nothing about sheep grazing though :(
 


Brian Fantana

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2006
7,495
In the field
The 108 Livery Companies are trade associations based in the City of London, almost all of which are known as the "Worshipful Company of" the relevant trade or profession. The Livery Companies originally developed as guilds and were responsible for the regulation of their trades, controlling, for instance, wages and labour conditions. Some Livery Companies (for example, the Scriveners) continue to have a regulatory role today, and some (for example, the Longbow Makers) have become inoperative except as charitable foundations. Most Livery Companies, particularly those formed in recent years, are primarily charitable organizations. The active Livery Companies also play an important part in social life and networking in the City of London. They have a long history of cultural patronage.

After the Fan Makers were established in 1709 (and later granted Livery in 1809), no new companies were formed for almost 200 years until the Master Mariners in 1926 (Livery in 1932). Post-1926 companies are called Modern livery companies. Formed in 1999, The Company of Security Professionals became the 108th Livery Company on 19th February 2008 when the Court of Aldermen of the City of London Corporation approved the Petition for Livery. In recent years, many professions (such as Solicitors and Chartered Accountants) have established new guilds with the aim of being granted Livery, the most recent being the Tax Advisers (formed as a Guild in 1995 and granted Livery in 2005).[citation needed] As of 2008 there are two old bodies which, for historical reasons, are recognized as City Companies without Livery; three further guilds (Educators, Public Relations Practitioners and Arts Scholars, Dealers and Collectors) aim to obtain a grant of Livery.

Governance
Livery Companies are governed by a Master (known in some Companies as the Prime Warden), a number of Wardens (who may be known as the Upper, Middle, Lower, or Renter Wardens), and a Court of Assistants, which elects the Master and Wardens. The chief executive officer of the Company is known as the Clerk.

Members generally fall into two categories: freemen and liverymen. One may become a freeman, or acquire the "Freedom of the Company", upon fulfilling the Company's criteria; traditionally, one may be admitted by "patrimony" if either parent was a liverymen of the company, by "servitude" if one has served as an apprentice in the trade for the requisite number of years, or by "redemption" if one pays a fee. (The Company may also vote to admit individuals as honorary freemen.) Freemen generally advance to becoming liverymen by a vote of the Court of the Company. Historically, only liverymen could take part in the election of the Lord Mayor of the City of London.


Livery halls
Many companies still have a hall, where members and their guests can be entertained and company business transacted. Among the earliest companies known to have possessed halls were the Merchant Taylors and Goldsmiths in the 14th century, but neither their nor other companies' original halls remain; the few survivors of the Great Fire were destroyed, along with many reconstructed ones, during the Blitz. Today, only 40 companies have halls in London. Companies that do not have their own hall usually borrow one of the other companies' premises for social occasions.


Precedence
In 1515, the Court of Aldermen of the City of London settled an order of precedence for the forty-eight Livery Companies then in existence, which was based on the Companies' economic or political power. The first 12 Livery Companies are known as the Great Twelve City Livery Companies. There are now one hundred and eight Livery Companies, some of recent formation, so the Order of Precedence is sometimes reviewed. However, the Merchant Taylors and the Skinners have always disputed their precedence, so once a year (at Easter) they exchange sixth and seventh place. This is one of the theories for the origin of the phrase "at sixes and sevens", as the master of the Merchant Taylors has asserted a number of times, although the first use of the phrase may have been before the Taylors and the Skinners decided to alternate their position [1]. Both companies had been founded before the birth of Chaucer, who was one of the first people to use the phrase, so this may have dated from before him.


:thumbsup:

Nothing about sheep grazing though :(


:) cheers.
 




Horney

New member
Oct 12, 2008
549
After becoming a Freeman I tried to drive a flock of sheep over London Bridge ( as I was entitled to ) - but as it was 8.30am on a monday I caused chaos and was arrested for blocking the public highway ( so much for tradition ! )
Seriously,though, mine was via patrimony as well and if you work in the city ( as my father did ) there are clearly networking benefits...I don't, however and unless that changes, then it is only of prestige value to me.
 


Brian Fantana

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2006
7,495
In the field
After becoming a Freeman I tried to drive a flock of sheep over London Bridge ( as I was entitled to ) - but as it was 8.30am on a monday I caused chaos and was arrested for blocking the public highway ( so much for tradition ! )
Seriously,though, mine was via patrimony as well and if you work in the city ( as my father did ) there are clearly networking benefits...I don't, however and unless that changes, then it is only of prestige value to me.

Cheers for the info. Maybe I won't try sheep driving then.
 






Brian Fantana

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2006
7,495
In the field
Mate.

They've got tinternet on computers nowadays.

You know damn well you could have looked all that up for yerself without the Look At ME! thread :shootself

I was actually trying to get the actual facts from people like Horney who have experienced it first hand. I don't really see the problem in that.

The main point of the thread was to try and find other Albion fans who were Freemen or Liveryman.

I don't really see that any of that warranted your attack.
 


Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
71,973
I was actually trying to get the actual facts from people like Horney who have experienced it first hand. I don't really see the problem in that.

The main point of the thread was to try and find other Albion fans who were Freemen or Liveryman.

I don't really see that any of that warranted your attack.

Sorry mate, but IMHO you were just 'Doing a Look-At-ME-Everybody!' thread as per NSC's resident attention-seeker Hove Born Inbred. In fact you KNOW you are. Your thread is inappropriate because a) All the stuff you are looking for is freely available on tinternet and b) You are just one of these random blips on the radar that NSC wishes Happy Birthday to 53 times between midnight and 00:02 once a year.

'The main point of the thread was to try and find other Albion fans who were Freemen or Liveryman'. Yeah, right :rolleyes:

No offence.

Obviously.
 


D

Deleted User X18H

Guest
I am a bit pissed at this actually especially with you Ross!!

This Robin character is blatantly attention seeking at least I discreetly sow the seed !!!!

And perhaps Notters my self and Robin thingy start these threads as we have something vaguely interesting to impart !!!
 




Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
71,973
I am a bit pissed at this actually especially with you Ross!!

This Robin character is blatantly attention seeking at least I discreetly sow the seed !!!!

Quite.

at least Tim you have put in the groundwork, annoyed us all for several thousand posts and - so far as is possible - earned the right to say LOOK. AT. ME.

Whereas, Roobie The Lurker seems to assume the right to say 'Hey! you Don't Know Me! My posts, if I made any ever, are utterly unmemorable. But look at me regardless, - and WORSHIP! - for I am a Freeman Of London'

At least you put in the hours on here and EARNED the right to be called WANKER!

No offence Tim :lol:
 


D

Deleted User X18H

Guest
Merchant Taylors Hall is I recall along Cornhill or Cheapside also I am sure you can pay a fee to have the hounour of City of London Freeman to be bestowed upon you...........if you want!
 


Brian Fantana

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2006
7,495
In the field
Pardon me for actually trying to use NSC to contact other people connected to something I am becoming a part of.

I have been posting on NSC for over 2 years now fairly regularly, so I would describe myself as more than just a "blip".

I find your rudeness and unwelcoming attitude unbelievable really.

If you weren't interested in the thread, why did you open it?
 


Oct 25, 2003
23,964
Sorry mate, but IMHO you were just 'Doing a Look-At-ME-Everybody!' thread as per NSC's resident attention-seeker Hove Born Inbred. In fact you KNOW you are. Your thread is inappropriate because a) All the stuff you are looking for is freely available on tinternet and b) You are just one of these random blips on the radar that NSC wishes Happy Birthday to 53 times between midnight and 00:02 once a year.

'The main point of the thread was to try and find other Albion fans who were Freemen or Liveryman'. Yeah, right :rolleyes:

No offence.

Obviously.

who cares how many posts he's done?!

robin posts a fair bit anyway

can't see what your problem is at ALL
 




northstandnorth

THE GOLDSTONE
Oct 13, 2003
2,441
A272 at 85 mph
Pardon me for actually trying to use NSC to contact other people connected to something I am becoming a part of.

I have been posting on NSC for over 2 years now fairly regularly, so I would describe myself as more than just a "blip".

I find your rudeness and unwelcoming attitude unbelievable really.

If you weren't interested in the thread, why did you open it?


run him over with your herd of sheep,in fact graze them upon preston park. with a bit of luck your baaa lambs will have a shit and it might smell the same as a hove bed and breakfast racing tip
 


Brian Fantana

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2006
7,495
In the field
Quite.

at least Tim you have put in the groundwork, annoyed us all for several thousand posts and - so far as is possible - earned the right to say LOOK. AT. ME.

Whereas, Roobie The Lurker seems to assume the right to say 'Hey! you Don't Know Me! My posts, if I made any ever, are utterly unmemorable. But look at me regardless, - and WORSHIP! - for I am a Freeman Of London'

At least you put in the hours on here and EARNED the right to be called WANKER!

No offence Tim :lol:

Last time I checked mate you weren't the owner, super-moderator and general judge of NSC.

Whether I have posted once or one million time doesn't deprive me of the right to post a thread.

I imagine from the vigour with which you attacked me thread that you have some kind of personal vendetta against Livery Companies which is your perogative and I have no problem with it but I see no reason for you to make it personal.

You and Hove Born and Bred clearly know each other personally so you have decided to attack the easy target who you don't know and use your status as a perceived "heavyweight" of the board to your advantage.

But you absolutely no right to judge me for what I post. The title of the threas made it clear what the topic was, if you didn't like the subject then why did you get involved.

You probably saw the chance to belittle a "lesser" member of NSC in front of your mates and generally feel pleased with yourself. You have probably succeeded as I have never felt so down on NSC as I do now.

Well done. You must be very proud of your efforts.
 


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