Fracking in Sussex? Fracking Firm Test Drilling in Balcombe

[kevo]

Will Balcombe run out of water

http://greenpeaceblogs.org/2013/08/...=gpusfb&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=fracking

 

[somerset]

You can't have nuclear because lots of people oppose that too.

So you have no answers....

 

[BadFish]

So you have no answers....

Not to your dopey question, no.

However if you want to know how i think the world will be powered in the future you can read it in my previous posts.

 

[somerset]

Not to your dopey question, no.

However if you want to know how i think the world will be powered in the future you can read it in my previous posts.

But you simply talked in generalisations about new technology blah blah blah....... what technology,... speak man, you have put yourself out there as a man of conviction within this genre, if you think solar is the answer, say so,.... don't talk about some fantasy theory that isn't likely to be possible for centuries.... what do you think will happen in the next 50 years? Nothing dopey about it, stop resorting to abuse each time you don't have an answer.

 

[BadFish]

But you simply talked in generalisations about new technology blah blah blah....... what technology,... speak man, you have put yourself out there as a man of conviction within this genre, if you think solar is the answer, say so,.... don't talk about some fantasy theory that isn't likely to be possible for centuries.... what do you think will happen in the next 50 years? Nothing dopey about it, stop resorting to abuse each time you don't have an answer.

In the next 50 years we will continue bumbling about as we are. Using all kinds of different energy resources. At some point in the next century or so some clever person (cleverer than me and possibly even you) will work out a way to effectively access energy direct from the sun, possibly using technology similar to todays solar tech. That person and those who market it will become unspeakble rich and our children and grand children will complain about them.

I have answered your question as best i can. Unfortunately i had to ignore your dopey condition because i don't believe the technology is currently available. This is why i think we should be spending money on research so we can find the answer sooner.

 

[somerset]

In the next 50 years we will continue bumbling about as we are. Using all kinds of different energy resources. At some point in the next century or so some clever person (cleverer than me and possibly even you) will work out a way to effectively access energy direct from the sun, possibly using technology similar to todays solar tech. That person and those who market it will become unspeakble rich and our children and grand children will complain about them.
.

Didn't Spielberg direct that one?....

 

[BadFish]

Didn't Spielberg direct that one?....

Actually i can not take credit for the idea. I saw chap speak at a conference last year who was talking about this idea. I can't remember his name but will look it up tomorrow if you are intersted. Off to bed now ta ta.

 

[CheeseRolls]

So has this resulted in more investment in new technology?

Not as far as I can see, maybe it has helped some of the German manufacturers ? - our government literally followed their move, without really trying to justify themselves. They also aimed to address the issue that green domestic subsidies, were just another tax break for the wealthy, by bringing in a new scheme, details below.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/aug/20/green-deal-households-energy-efficiency

 

[CheeseRolls]

In the next 50 years we will continue bumbling about as we are. Using all kinds of different energy resources. At some point in the next century or so some clever person (cleverer than me and possibly even you) will work out a way to effectively access energy direct from the sun, possibly using technology similar to todays solar tech. That person and those who market it will become unspeakble rich and our children and grand children will complain about them.

I have answered your question as best i can. Unfortunately i had to ignore your dopey condition because i don't believe the technology is currently available. This is why i think we should be spending money on research so we can find the answer sooner.

I do think where you live has an impact on your perspective. I think you are right in a lot of what you say, from a global perspective. However many of the arguments here are localised, whether it be environmental damage around Balcombe, or higher fuel bills in the UK, the impact in Geelong is likely to be negligible.

Last winter the UK supposedly came within hours of a blackout. We are still heavily reliant on dirty coal (39% of electricity was produced this way in 2012) Gas has two advantages, firstly it is cleaner than coal, but more importantly from a power generation perspective unlike coal and nuclear generation, it can be turned on and off on demand and the plant is relatively inexpensive. This means it is a good compliment for wind and solar, where generation fluctuates with the weather.

Once North Sea gas, both UK and Norwegian supplies are depleted, we have a choice between Russia and the Middle East for gas supplies. No one in the UK wants to be caught up in these negotiations. So we must all hope that new technology drives greener sources of energy and I am all for that, but we MUST have a Plan B. Shale gas may well be the answer. It is not going to deliver huge savings as per the USA, but if it can give us stable prices, an independent energy source, we need to look seriously at what the environmental impact will be.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Will Balcombe run out of water

http://greenpeaceblogs.org/2013/08/...=gpusfb&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=fracking

Only if it has three successive years of drought and someone does some actual fracking.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Will Balcombe run out of water

http://greenpeaceblogs.org/2013/08/...=gpusfb&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=fracking

I seriously doubt it. This is a major concern if you live somewhere that is genuinely remote and unregulated. The 200 folk who live in Barnhart can't afford to dig themselves a new well. Cuadrilla and others are not licensed here to go take their own water, they have to pay along with the rest of us. Increasing water supplies in the South East of England is not an insurmountable problem, if the costs are justified.

 

[BadFish]

I do think where you live has an impact on your perspective. I think you are right in a lot of what you say, from a global perspective. However many of the arguments here are localised, whether it be environmental damage around Balcombe, or higher fuel bills in the UK, the impact in Geelong is likely to be negligible.

Last winter the UK supposedly came within hours of a blackout. We are still heavily reliant on dirty coal (39% of electricity was produced this way in 2012) Gas has two advantages, firstly it is cleaner than coal, but more importantly from a power generation perspective unlike coal and nuclear generation, it can be turned on and off on demand and the plant is relatively inexpensive. This means it is a good compliment for wind and solar, where generation fluctuates with the weather.

Once North Sea gas, both UK and Norwegian supplies are depleted, we have a choice between Russia and the Middle East for gas supplies. No one in the UK wants to be caught up in these negotiations. So we must all hope that new technology drives greener sources of energy and I am all for that, but we MUST have a Plan B. Shale gas may well be the answer. It is not going to deliver huge savings as per the USA, but if it can give us stable prices, an independent energy source, we need to look seriously at what the environmental impact will be.

I take your point about my location, but I also think that the localized problems in the UK can and will be over come by technological breakthroughs.

I also think your final point is the most telling on the fracking issue(as well as many others IMHO). The environmental impacts are not looked at and considered carefully enough before embarking on these kind of projects. The kind of learning as we go and see what happens is for me the most important concern, we have learned over nd over that ecosystems and environmental problems caused are not always obvious and are often irreversible. We have seen in the USA some of the problems that have been caused by fracking because the environmental impacts were not consider in enough depth and detail.

Living in Australia does give me a insight into the effects of ill conceived actions on an ecosystem and how these decisions can come back to haunt you years later. Many flora and fauna has been introduced here and devastated the natural environment. Look at the vast tracts of desert in northern Victoria and southern NSW caused by the introduction of 12 rabbits or the continuing cane toad problem that is crossing the country from northern Queensland. As I say these are obviously not directly related to fracking but they do represent environmental lesson that we do not appear to have learnt from.

 

[BadFish]

I seriously doubt it. This is a major concern if you live somewhere that is genuinely remote and unregulated. The 200 folk who live in Barnhart can't afford to dig themselves a new well. Cuadrilla and others are not licensed here to go take their own water, they have to pay along with the rest of us. Increasing water supplies in the South East of England is not an insurmountable problem, if the costs are justified.

But most summerd you still have hosepipe bans don't you? This suggests that their is not plentiful water in Sussex.

 

[CheeseRolls]

But most summerd you still have hosepipe bans don't you? This suggests that their is not plentiful water in Sussex.

If the political will and the money is there, they will create another reservoir. Hosepipe bans are the easy option and whilst we have had a warm summer, there has been no ban this year.

 

[CheeseRolls]

I take your point about my location, but I also think that the localized problems in the UK can and will be over come by technological breakthroughs.

I also think your final point is the most telling on the fracking issue(as well as many others IMHO). The environmental impacts are not looked at and considered carefully enough before embarking on these kind of projects. The kind of learning as we go and see what happens is for me the most important concern, we have learned over nd over that ecosystems and environmental problems caused are not always obvious and are often irreversible. We have seen in the USA some of the problems that have been caused by fracking because the environmental impacts were not consider in enough depth and detail.

Living in Australia does give me a insight into the effects of ill conceived actions on an ecosystem and how these decisions can come back to haunt you years later. Many flora and fauna has been introduced here and devastated the natural environment. Look at the vast tracts of desert in northern Victoria and southern NSW caused by the introduction of 12 rabbits or the continuing cane toad problem that is crossing the country from northern Queensland. As I say these are obviously not directly related to fracking but they do represent environmental lesson that we do not appear to have learnt from.

There is tons of research into the environmental impacts, the fact that a lot of this is highly technical and not easy for us laymen to understand does not mean it doesn't exist.

Take a look here http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Gas/OperationalInfo/TBE/Future+Energy+Scenarios/ and specifically at the FES summary. The future for domestic power is a combination of electric heat exchangers and smart meters. There are so many limitations on ground and air pumps today, this is a big assumption. Without either nuclear or gas the people who supply our electricity today, don't think the numbers add up. Maybe this is all part of a big business conspiracy, but I would rather not rely on the word of the Balcombe rent a mob.

 

[BadFish]

There is tons of research into the environmental impacts, the fact that a lot of this is highly technical and not easy for us laymen to understand does not mean it doesn't exist.

Take a look here http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Gas/OperationalInfo/TBE/Future+Energy+Scenarios/ and specifically at the FES summary. The future for domestic power is a combination of electric heat exchangers and smart meters. There are so many limitations on ground and air pumps today, this is a big assumption. Without either nuclear or gas the people who supply our electricity today, don't think the numbers add up. Maybe this is all part of a big business conspiracy, but I would rather not rely on the word of the Balcombe rent a mob.

Had a quick look (there is a lot there) but it seems to suggest that gas demand will decline and electricity demand will increase. What this suggests to me is that we need to invest in clean and environmentally friendly electricity production.

Here are some numbers which do add up. It amazes me that we are not investing heavily in working out how to hardness the glaring ball of energy that already powers the globe. Especially here in Australia.

Every hour the sun beams onto Earth more than enough energy to satisfy global energy needs for an entire year.
http://environment.nationalgeographic .com.au/environment/global-warming/solar-power-profile/

Interstingly GE believe that 100 square miles of their solar panels will provide enough power for the USA



This suggests that viable and workable technology isn't very far away.....even for cloudy old UK

 

[beorhthelm]

Here are some numbers which do add up. It amazes me that we are not investing heavily in working out how to hardness the glaring ball of energy that already powers the globe. Especially here in Australia.

the problem is collection and storage. we need domestic electric power when its dark and cold, just when solar is unavailable or at its lower efficency. but the collection isnt as simple as it looks, for industrial power you need vast banks of solar panels taking up space and not cheap or without environmental impact. if one can find an improve method for collection (and i believe thats being explored) and find a method to store and transport the energy (convert to hydrogen?), we might get somewhere.

a piece in the Standard summed it up succintly today: shale is dirty but its cleaner than coal. thats whats behind fracking. i'll go futher and point out the irony that wind, solar, tidal etc all need gas along side them to provide backup when the renewable isnt available. so to go over ground again, do we obtain that locally or ship it in from overseas. because the fact is renewables cannot do it alone. chose where you want the fossils to be found please.

 

[BadFish]

the problem is collection and storage. we need domestic electric power when its dark and cold, just when solar is unavailable or at its lower efficency. but the collection isnt as simple as it looks, for industrial power you need vast banks of solar panels taking up space and not cheap or without environmental impact. if one can find an improve method for collection (and i believe thats being explored) and find a method to store and transport the energy (convert to hydrogen?), we might get somewhere.

a piece in the Standard summed it up succintly today: shale is dirty but its cleaner than coal. thats whats behind fracking. i'll go futher and point out the irony that wind, solar, tidal etc all need gas along side them to provide backup when the renewable isnt available. so to go over ground again, do we obtain that locally or ship it in from overseas. because the fact is renewables cannot do it alone. chose where you want the fossils to be found please.

I agree with the problems you state but as you also state they are also being explored and progress is being made.

Renewable cannot do it alone, again you are correct. However they will be able to when we work out the issues you previously stated. Until then we will need to continue our reliance on fossil fuels. To this end we are moving in the right direction but we need more investment to get us there quicker.

For me fracking is a backward step that is fraught with environmental concerns. I would rather see us exploring progressive and clean energy rather than trying to milk the planet dry of every drop of oil and cloud of gas.

 

[pork pie]

I agree with the problems you state but as you also state they are also being explored and progress is being made.

Renewable cannot do it alone, again you are correct. However they will be able to when we work out the issues you previously stated. Until then we will need to continue our reliance on fossil fuels. To this end we are moving in the right direction but we need more investment to get us there quicker.

For me fracking is a backward step that is fraught with environmental concerns. I would rather see us exploring progressive and clean energy rather than trying to milk the planet dry of every drop of oil and cloud of gas.

We have invested heavily in off-shore wind to please the tree-huggers. At what point does their carbon footprint become negative? Nulear is the only long-term solution to our energy problems.

 

[somerset]

Nuclear is the only long-term solution to our energy problems.

The message will get through eventually PP...... but the planning process will hamper any real progress, we have a system whereby the surreptitious introduction of a newt, even in a field where there hasn't been one recorded in history, can hold up or force the cancellation of multi million pound projects...crazy system