Four players released

[rool]

In fact, I think the situation is, the lower down the transfer market you go (and low down is the bit we are restricted to) the more likely is is that gambles don't come off, because you are dealing almost exclusively with untested or potentially past-it players.

Probably, but I assume that the wage demands and fees expected from a league 1 club compared to a championship club will be more realistic for the untested category of player and that will hopefully allow us to take less of a gamble. The risk with the potentially past it is that they can probably still demand wages above their worth.

Anyway, I would be surprised if a deal like that happened again in the near future.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

Eaxctly, both Dowie and McGhee are fine managers.

I think you are speculating on aspects of El Turi's transfer, you have no evidence whatsoever that his signing on fee was "substantial".

The club have said that the fee to bring El Turi to the club was a 6 figure fee. Now that's atleast £100,000. I'd said thats fairly substantial for us in the current situation.

Unless it was actually counting pence as well in which case £1000.00 is fine however £1000.01 was still too much.

 

[London Irish]

The club have said that the fee to bring El Turi to the club was a 6 figure fee. Now that's atleast £100,000. I'd said thats fairly substantial for us in the current situation.

Unless it was actually counting pence as well in which case £1000.00 is fine however £1000.01 was still too much.

There's a confusion here - Barrell was referring to a fee paid to the player, not to his agent. We have no evidence that this fee was substantial, which was what was claimed.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

There's a confusion here - Barrell was referring to a fee paid to the player, not to his agent. We have no evidence that this fee was substantial, which was what was claimed.

I would think we would of had to pay off his contract as he would have been entitled to that under UK Law.

Did he have 1 year remaining or 2 on his contract? As he was meant to be on 3k a week (and that figure has been banded about by more than 1 source close to the club).

If we have had to pay him off fully for the remainder of his contract we are back into the 6 figure sum again. Nice little earner for them. Him and his agent should get on The Real Hustle.

Of course we may well of said to him take a heavily reduced amount and f*** off to Italy and fail there as well, or sit and rot in our reserves.

 

[Silent Bob]

It's interesting that people keep bringing up El Turi.

I guess if you and Munster were Palace fans, you would be saying Ian Dowie is a shit and useless manager who deserved to be fired because he spent between £750,000 and £1.1m for Jon Macken?

Puts the £150k for El Turi in perspective I think.

Not really, they spend in propotion to their budget and we spend in proportion to ours. £150k is a lot of money to us. I understand that we have to gamble at times, but I can't understand the nature of this gamble. We bought a completely unproven and unknown player based on a video and 45 unconvincing minutes against Lewes when there were players such as Owusu, Iwelumo, Shipperly, even the likes of Greenacre and Benjamin etc available for FREE, but we chose to spend £150k on Turienzo?

El Turi was a mistake, but how big a mistake would only be clear if we knew we had been paying him inflated wages (we don't know that) or how the transfer deal with his agent was structured, was there appearance clauses and staggered payments for example?

I very much doubt that there was anything like that. It was stated we paid an undisclosed six figure fee, that seems straighforward enough. Plus the fact that his agent owned his contract having bought him out of his deal at his last club, it seems unlikely that he'd arrange a deal like that?

No idea what arrangement was reached over terminating his contract but I presume it is more benficial to us than keeping him and paying it over the course of the next year.

 

[Schrödinger's Toad]

I can't quite see the argument that, given our financial position, we have to take gambles, some of which won't pay off. For me, our situation only makes it more important that we properly scout and trial players before taking them on on long-term deals - if you're still going to go ahead and take a chance on a player like Turienzo, you've then got to give him every chance to come good. Getting rid of him after a year seems utterly bizarre.

 

[B.W.]

Yes, I have heard the phrase a lot, mainly in connection with bankruptcy cases.

And successful businesses...

 

[B.W.]

OK, so you're right about Mayo, and Dick Knight, Mark McGhee and Dean Wilkins are all wrong. Congratulations. Maybe they don't watch any Albion games either like me.

I have my opinion, to which I am entitled... yours is equally valid, but... then again... you don't seem to have your own opinion... you just slavishly follow the club line... independent thought mean anything to you?...

 

[B.W.]

Strip away the PR garbage and Branson is actually a very hard-headed and shrewd businessman. The idea of him spending money on the off-chance that it might just come off is laughable.

And that is your definition of speculate to accumulate, is it?...

 

[B.W.]

if you read his autobiography, he did take quite a few punts....even in later life, his purchase of the business then to become Virgin Mobile was such a venture. You being a industry journo I would have thought would have known that


Shame he blotted his copybook by sponsoring the Scum though

Now... come on... you know LI is ALWAYS right... stop bringing facts to the argument...

 

[B.W.]

I agree with most of what you say in your well-argued post but I think you are wide of the mark on this bit.

Newspaper reports on MOTM are actually I think very instructive because they are made without the same prejudices and agenda that fans always bring as baggage to a game. They are made without the pressure of popular and possibly wrong-headed bandwagon opinion.

The Football League Paper correspondent looked at the Millwall game dispassionately and decided Chippy was the most influential player on the pitch.

I just don't think Chippy would be anywhere near getting the kind of praise like this (and Luton was also from the Argus not just the pissed-up sponsors) if he was as bad as you and others say.

The award of a new contract I think bears that argument out.

So, if we accept he played well in two games in about half a season, then that makes him worth a contract... your arguments just don't hold water (as usual)...

 

[B.W.]

Another character dig. Can't you just PM me these rather than boring everyone else with them?

No... keep up the good work, Dies Irae... you never know... he might get the message one day...

 

[B.W.]

Virgin Mobile was not a "punt", there was tons of business analysis and research that went into that venture before it was launched. It suits his carefully cultivated PR image to paint himself as some kind of free-wheeling, chancing buccaneer, buy into that if you want but the reality is very different.

Business analysis or not, it is still speculating to accumulate... every business venture, and buying footie players for that matter, involves at least some element of risk... the question is... where do you draw the line?...

I happen to think that we could still be in the CCC if our board had invested more wisely (El Turi) or put up a bit more money when the sh1t was really hitting the fan (Jan transfer window)... you obviously don't... as I said, that's "your" opinion (actually, the board's POV), and you are entitled to it...

 

[B.W.]

The Football League Paper reports are better than that in my opinion. Also, Chippy played more than just two good games, I have only highlighted them because of the noticable fact that he was singled out as the best player on the pitch by neutral sources in them. The reality I believe is that he did have a handful of bad games where fans got on his back a bit, and I think he is being unfairly written off on the basis of those. I guess we are not going to agree on this though

All I can say is that it was the vast majority of games towards the end of the season in which your mate, Chippy, played very poorly indeed...

Now the incorrect decision has been made to retain his services, I will support him 100% if he plays... here's hoping we sign a better central midfielder...

 

[B.W.]

It's interesting that people keep bringing up El Turi.

I guess if you and Munster were Palace fans, you would be saying Ian Dowie is a shit and useless manager who deserved to be fired because he spent between £750,000 and £1.1m for Jon Macken?

Puts the £150k for El Turi in perspective I think.

Yes, but Dowie's record with Palar$e, I think you will find, is just slightly better than McGhee's record at the same time... the comparison you raise is spurious...

 

[B.W.]

Eaxctly, both Dowie and McGhee are fine managers.

I think you are speculating on aspects of El Turi's transfer, you have no evidence whatsoever that his signing on fee was "substantial".

Your point about us not being in a position to gamble is fine words but ignores reality. Unfortunately, the lower reaches of the transfer market generally is more loaded with gambles. If we don't gamble, we don't sign players - that's the reality of it. CKR, Currie, Nicolas, Carole - all gambles. We will this summer I'm sure be making more gambles - that's football at our level even more so than for Simon Jordan or Ian Dowie.

Please justify the phrase "both Dowie and McGhee are fine managers" focussing on McGhee's performance at our club...

 

[British Bulldog]

B.W. Full marks on perseverence on a thread!

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I can't quite see the argument that, given our financial position, we have to take gambles, some of which won't pay off. For me, our situation only makes it more important that we properly scout and trial players before taking them on on long-term deals - if you're still going to go ahead and take a chance on a player like Turienzo, you've then got to give him every chance to come good. Getting rid of him after a year seems utterly bizarre.

Very true. With Carole, Frutos, Currie, CKR etc. as LI mentioned, were gambles to an extent, but they were known to us and had prolonged trials and had been scouted properly. Carole spent time at West Ham and we watched him there. Currie was a seasoned pro who we knew alot about.

Turienzo was unknown and we did not see much of him at all, before signing him. The chances are we didn't have any competition yet we signed him hastily. LI, we are not in a position to gamble on players like that. Sure, with others that are known to us. We knew very little of El Turi, and that is money down the pan. They made a big mistake. Don't worry though, I don't want to board or McGhee sacked because of this.