Football & the Rooney rule.

[Leekbrookgull]

The PFA is to examine the possible use of America's Rooney rule in English football. The rule introduced into the NFL in 2003 requires at least one candidate for interveiw must come from an ethnic minority group when a club is appointing a new head coach. PFA chairman Brendan Batson wants the 'English' game to address the imbalance of non-white managers in the English game. Sorry i am not keen on the idea,give it to the best one you can find,colour or creed does not bother me.

 

[darkcore1977]

Paul Ince come on down

 

[Notters]

Can't see that being legal - positive descrimination.

 

[madinthehead]

I know this rule is just for the interview but it is a waste of time for the interviewers/ candidates if they know they don't want to appoint someone, but have to interview them anyway.
It will only lead to quotas needing to be filled next.. I have been turned down for a position as a company needed to fulfill a quota. I was already working for a team and went for the team leader position, the company gave a German woman the job and I was unofficially told that I would have had the job if not for the quota... She was also probably the worst boss, I have had the displeasure of working for..
People should get the job on merit, not because of their colour of skin/ gender/ religion/ hair colour/ football team they support..

 

[Hove Seagull]

Is it just about black or white (ie skin colour) or is it wider than that? What if, say, we had a manager who was from South America?

 

[Mendoza]

How many black managers in the UK are there that are not currently employed. Is there that many, or does Paul Ince or Ruel Fox have to be interviewed for every job going

 

[Tooting Gull]

I can see both side of this one. I get the 'tokenism' argument, that it should be all about ability, and foisting black managers onto the shortlist as a quota is bordering on patronising. I feel a bit the same about all-women shortlists in politics, and at the workplace.

But at the same time, there must be a reason why more very successful black players aren't getting chances as managers. There must be, the numbers don't stack up. Why hasn't Terry Connor been offered a decent job, for example? He's done a great job at Wolves, and that's how many white managers get their offers. You suspect there is something more at work than pure chance, and sometimes when a problem is so intractable, the only way to take it on is more direct action. If you just leave it, it may never change.

The experience in the USA has been such a massive success that it's hard to say it doesn't work. It hasn't proved tokenism, the people who have benefited have gone and won stuff.

 

[goldstone]

Surely Rooney hasn't got the experience to jump straight into the England manager's job?

 

[Leekbrookgull]

I can see both side of this one. I get the 'tokenism' argument, that it should be all about ability, and foisting black managers onto the shortlist as a quota is bordering on patronising. I feel a bit the same about all-women shortlists in politics, and at the workplace.

But at the same time, there must be a reason why more very successful black players aren't getting chances as managers. There must be, the numbers don't stack up. Why hasn't Terry Connor been offered a decent job, for example? He's done a great job at Wolves, and that's how many white managers get their offers. You suspect there is something more at work than pure chance, and sometimes when a problem is so intractable, the only way to take it on is more direct action. If you just leave it, it may never change.

The experience in the USA has been such a massive success that it's hard to say it doesn't work. It hasn't proved tokenism, the people who have benefited have gone and won stuff.

Can you actually say he has done a great job at Wolves,is he not the No 2 there ? Lots of clubs have what appeared or were good assistants,but being 'The Boss' must carry added problems/role etc ?

 

[BlueSeagull]

It sounds a bit like the quota system used in South African cricket, where they have to have at least 1 black player in the team, even if it means a better white player misses out, surely in that case it should be the best 11 players whether they were all black, white or yellow? That's the reason Kevin Pieterson left South Africa in the 1st place to qualify for England (actually for THAT reason alone, maybe it IS a good idea )

 

[southern_sid]

The PFA is to examine the possible use of America's Rooney rule in English football. The rule introduced into the NFL in 2003 requires at least one candidate for interveiw must come from an ethnic minority group when a club is appointing a new head coach. PFA chairman Brendan Batson wants the 'English' game to address the imbalance of non-white managers in the English game. Sorry i am not keen on the idea,give it to the best one you can find,colour or creed does not bother me.

Shit idea, if your good enough you'll get the job.

 

[KZNSeagull]

That's the reason Kevin Pieterson left South Africa in the 1st place to qualify for England (actually for THAT reason alone, maybe it IS a good idea )

No - that's the reason he tells everyone why he left SA. The real reason was that at the time, he was a shit batsman and poor bowler and was not therefore good enough to play for KwaZulu-Natal.

 

[sten_super]

The problem I have with bringing in the Rooney rule in England is that I don't think it targets the real problem. The problem isn't that black managers aren't getting appointed, it's that there's a severe lack of suitable candidates. Look at the list of people completing the UEFA Pro Licence and it's dominated by white men.

List of managers and coaches who have qualified for the UEFA Pro Licence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Having said that I do appreciate there might be a bit of chicken and egg about it - i.e. if you guarantee people an interview more may take the relevant qualification. However I think that's the wrong way round to do it.

My understanding (although I may be wrong) is that in the NFL there were already a lot of black coaches, but that they weren't getting the head coach roles (despite having gained a lot of experience at big teams). I don't think it's the same problem here.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Can you actually say he has done a great job at Wolves,is he not the No 2 there ? Lots of clubs have what appeared or were good assistants,but being 'The Boss' must carry added problems/role etc ?

I totally, 100 per cent agree with you, and some assistants will NEVER be good as the main man. But equally, some will show qualities that suggest they will, and then they get given that chance (eg McLaren, Phil Brown etc - I know they're not brilliant, but that's at least how they got their chance as a No1).

 

[BlueSeagull]

No - that's the reason he tells everyone why he left SA. The real reason was that at the time, he was a shit batsman and poor bowler and was not therefore good enough to play for KwaZulu-Natal.

Fair enough, He IS now though

 

[Sussex Nomad]

I thought the Rooney rule was the one where you have to be first to get into the refs face every time one of your team mates goes down like a dying swan. My bad.

 

[Paskman]

I didn't realise Rooney was blackyou learn something new every day on here

 

[thony]

The problem I have with bringing in the Rooney rule in England is that I don't think it targets the real problem. The problem isn't that black managers aren't getting appointed, it's that there's a severe lack of suitable candidates. Look at the list of people completing the UEFA Pro Licence and it's dominated by white men.
Having said that I do appreciate there might be a bit of chicken and egg about it - i.e. if you guarantee people an interview more may take the relevant qualification. However I think that's the wrong way round to do it.

My understanding (although I may be wrong) is that in the NFL there were already a lot of black coaches, but that they weren't getting the head coach roles (despite having gained a lot of experience at big teams). I don't think it's the same problem here.

This may be an American thing, as I have come across something similar when I worked for American Express.
When a top management position was advertised, they were after a "diverse candidate base" - ie, they wanted the mix of applicants to reasonably reflect the population mix - ie, if the population includes 50% women, 18% Afro-Carribean, etc, and one of those categories wasn't represented, then they were concerned that the group may not have bothered applying because they thought theywould be discriminated against so didn't stand a chance. As one of these groups WASN'T represented, they extended the deadline for applications (although I don't know whether they ended up with anyone from the missing group applying). Amex DID however stress that the interviewing process WOULD be looking for the best person for the job, REGARDLESS of ethnic origin etc, and that all they were doing was making sure that all groups were given a fair opportunity to apply.

 

[keaton]

Can't really see the arguments against, best person still get's the job all it can do is change a few opinions

 

[sten_super]

Can't really see the arguments against, best person still get's the job all it can do is change a few opinions

Without meaning to be difficult, did you read my post? The major concern I have is that it may be treated as a panacea that will sort the problem out, when in fact I don't think it addresses the problem at all. There's no point bringing it in if it simply means that Paul Ince is going to be interviewed and rejected for each and every Premiership job.