Feeling guilty because I really could give a flying f*** if Liverpool go into admin

[itszamora]

The owners are entirely to blame for this mess. Yes, some of Benitez's signings were questionable to say the least, but as has been pointed out, they were ones Liverpool could afford. The thing dragging the club into the financial mire is the enormous debt foisted on it by the Americans, who even now stubbornly insist on making themselves less and less popular with the supporters.

 

[sten_super]

The thing dragging the club into the financial mire is the enormous debt foisted on it by the Americans, who even now stubbornly insist on making themselves less and less popular with the supporters.

With £140m at stake, and them about to sell the club (or have it taken from them) inside the next week or so, I doubt they care too much about their popularity!

 

[Bold Seagull]

I'm sorry, but you are fundamentally not correct. The football club made an operating profit last year, and has done there-or-thereabouts in recent years (see the below link); certainly the difference between profit and loss appears to be player tradings. The holding company is making horrendous losses because of the interest being charged on the loans that they took out to buy the football club. Fundamentally, the football club could afford to spend £16m on Glen Johnson, the holding company could not.

Liverpool Football Club and Athletic Grounds plc | The Political Economy of Football

Add up your figures from your own link for pre-tax profits. From 2003/04 to 2007/08 it is an overall loss of £-29m. Very healthy, even before the yanks took over!!

 

[Pavilionaire]

What, ManUre have never bought any kids through, who are you, Alan Hansen!?

I didn't say Man Utd had NEVER brought kids through, I'm saying it isn't happening anymore.

Look at England's bright young stars - Walcott, Adam Johnson, Milner. They started at Southampton, Middlesbrough and Leeds.

Of the big teams, Arsenal seem to be the exception to the rule.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Add up your figures from your own link for pre-tax profits. From 2003/04 to 2007/08 it is an overall loss of £-29m. Very healthy, even before the yanks took over!!

When the club was put up for sale the club debts were only £44million which, for a club of the stature of Liverpool, is both controllable and serviceable. The fact Moores personally pocketed £77million shows he must have been doing something right at the club for the market value to sky rocket since his acquisition in 1993.

In fact, the board had done well to complete with Chelsea and Man Utd (particularly in Europe) without a massive stadium or multi-billionaire chairman.

There's very few top flight clubs that put in a better financial performance than that over the same time period.

Because of Hicks and Gillette the clubs debts are now £300million.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I didn't say Man Utd had NEVER brought kids through, I'm saying it isn't happening anymore.

Look at England's bright young stars - Walcott, Adam Johnson, Milner. They started at Southampton, Middlesbrough and Leeds.

Of the big teams, Arsenal seem to be the exception to the rule.

Not happening anymore? the Carling Cup won in consecutive years with Gibson, Evans, Macheda, Wellbeck, Fabio, Rafael, not to mention Fletcher, O'Shea, Brown, and the old boys still there. I think they are still using their youth system to good effect, more so than many other clubs.

When the club was put up for sale the club debts were only £44million which, for a club of the stature of Liverpool, is both controllable and serviceable. The fact Moores personally pocketed £77million shows he must have been doing something right at the club for the market value to sky rocket since his acquisition in 1993.

In fact, the board had done well to complete with Chelsea and Man Utd (particularly in Europe) without a massive stadium or multi-billionaire chairman.

There's very few top flight clubs that put in a better financial performance than that over the same time period.

Because of Hicks and Gillette the clubs debts are now £300million.

Moores didn't do anything to raise the club's value himself, the Premierships global appeal did that, proportionally given all clubs values rose from 1993 to 2007, Liverpool's value probably underperformed if anything.

 

[Aldo]

Why is this a terrible tradegy? This is a club that believe that it's their god given right to be top of the league, and spent spent spent to achieve it.

NET spend of £10 million pounds under Rafa, yep alright then pal

 

[Aldo]

Keane wasn't cheap and they lost a LOT of money on him in a short amount of time.

They lost £2 million due to money Spurs paid back

 

[Aldo]

You are, in your own way confirming my argument. As with many Liverpool fans (i'm not suggesting you are one) they do compare themselves with Chelsea, ManUtd, Spurs, but they simply don't have the spending power. Liverpool should be comparing themselves to Arsenal or Everton and what they spend, and the young players they bring through at a fraction of the cost.

On several posts you have compared Liverpool to Chelsea / ManUtd, and that is my point, they are not even remotely in the same financial category as those clubs, and yet they spent like they were.

Did they really? The vast majority of £ they spent was made from selling players, therefore they weren't actually investing in improving the squad, they were investing in keeping at its current level, and because if LFC received £20 million for a player they would be given £10 million of it to spend (as debt had to be paid) they couldn't sustain the same quality let alone build a better squad.

 

[CHAPPERS]

They lost £2 million

Try £7 million.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Did they really? The vast majority of £ they spent was made from selling players, therefore they weren't actually investing in improving the squad, they were investing in keeping at its current level, and because if LFC received £20 million for a player they would be given £10 million of it to spend (as debt had to be paid) they couldn't sustain the same quality let alone build a better squad.

Perhaps you could do my accounts as well!

 

[Pavilionaire]

Not happening anymore? the Carling Cup won in consecutive years with Gibson, Evans, Macheda, Wellbeck, Fabio, Rafael, not to mention Fletcher, O'Shea, Brown, and the old boys still there. I think they are still using their youth system to good effect, more so than many other clubs.

With the exception of Fletcher, none of those players are anywhere near 1st XI quality and unless they are replaced United can not only forget about the title but seriosuly worry about being able to finish 2nd.

 

[Bold Seagull]

With the exception of Fletcher, none of those players are anywhere near 1st XI quality and unless they are replaced United can not only forget about the title but seriosuly worry about being able to finish 2nd.

Which, if that's what the clubs finances dictate, then that is what should happen (is happening!). They should accept that they can't afford to replace the others, and compete with what they've got, if it means 2nd, so be it. Again, this is exactly my point, and exactly what Liverpool should have done by accepting their financial constraints whether forced on by the owners holding company or otherwise.

 

[BRIGHT ON Q]

They will get 70 points - 9 = 61, so top 8 , yes.

They'll lose at Goodison this weekend for a start,they will never get 70 points.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The ruling from the high court judge is now expected tomorrow morning.

 

[Uwinsc]

This whole saga was thought up months ago , i know this by a very good source , wait till tomorrow.

Maybe not such a good source then- I thought it was supposed to be adjourned?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

If you read the thread I'm not defending Liverpool's spending, I'm trying to demonstrate that their 'relative' profligacy is not in the same league as Man City's, nor have they had the same detrimental effect on the marketplace as City.

Liverpool have lost just £40million in the transfer market since Hicks and Gillett took over, and if Hodgson sold Torres tomorrow they'd at least have that figure again. The killer has not been transfer activity, it's been the foisting of debt on the club that has cost £80 million to service over the past 2 seasons.

I honestly think they would struggle to get 40 million for Torres, his injury record is woeful, when is his contract up?

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

They lost £2 million due to money Spurs paid back

Erm and the rest!