FAO: Anyone who wishes to show their support to students...

[Djmiles]

I haven't really read up on this. But I believe the 'debts' only have to be paid back when the person is in a well paid job?

Currently £15k, going up to £21k soon.

 

[clippedgull]

Currently £15k, going up to £21k soon.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

So you mock my intentions because i'm not 42 years old?

That right there is why we are protesting. Ignorance of the older generations.

you patronising twat!

what you should be pointing out fuckwit is that when Student Loans were originally brought in by B liar, the interest rate was around 1%...without telling anyone it shot up to 4.5%.......and now the banks are being asked to quote to take over the Student Load Company and will chanrge somewhere in the region of 12%!!!

 

[Djmiles]

I have been to University, and even though I never intend on going back to University or any education, this whole topic does make me angry.

£6,000 a year 15 hours a week of education is nothing short of a farce, and it's a shame that young people could be put in a situation where they could owe as much as £30,000 for a simple 3 year course. No wonder a lot of young people are being put off by going to University.

 

[brightonian finest]

Counter demo

 

[Safe.]

So you mock my intentions because i'm not 42 years old?

That right there is why we are protesting. Ignorance of the older generations.

You've made yourself look a right cock posting that.

 

[Philzo-93]

I'll be attending

 

[Billy the Fish]

While I think the students have a fair point about the fees, the organisers have shown their true colours with all the political undertones to the last protest. Walking round with "Tory Scum" banners - what's that got to do with student fees?
Couple that with the rent-a-mob anarchists and you lose alot of public support. Had labour won the election and done the same thing, and they would've done the same thing, I bet there wouldn't be half the fuss.

 

[entente cordiale]

Good luck to students and anyone else ready to oppose lib-con cuts which will hammer those least able to cope and probably push us into a deeper recession.

If we want an educated population, we should pay for it out of fairly levied general taxation as we do for hospitals, prisons, the miltary, pensions, propping up failing banks etc.. Forcing them to begin working life with a debt of 20k minimum is a cruel trick on the younger generation, their anger is justified and their energy an example to those of us who merely grumble and accept...

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

I'd be interested in knowing how university could be made better value for money. Even £6,000 a year sounds a lot for what you actually get.

 

[Brian Potter]

[Personally, I think the cuts to sports in schools is scandalous. However, I'm less won over by the case being put objecting to university tuition fees.[/QUOTE]
Totally agree. Very good article by Des Kelly in Saturday's Mail about the removal of the ringfencing for sports funding is schools.

 

[Joey Deacon's Disco Suit]

I don't like pigeonholing but when you're dealing with a large number of people it will happen. No government can look at cases individually and asses each and every one. So class distinctions will come with the grouping together of people.

Of course stereotyping will occur but your stereotyping is lazy and out-of-date as Collar Feeler has explained. 'upper working class'? That's not a class anyway on the ABCDE scale that most social commentators use. I think your grasp of this subject is not as strong as you think it is. I particularly like the highlight on the word 'like'. Your 'not wanting to pigeonhole but have to here because you are dealing with large groups of people' is a nonsense of an idea. Pigeonholing/Stereotyping - whatever you want to call it only ever happens because of the (perceived) habits of a large groups.

'No government can look at cases individually........so class distinctions will come with the grouping.....'

Really? Governments are not going to look at cases on an individual basis? They've already said they will to ensure that poor children don't get disadvantaged. The efficacy of such a measure remains to be seen but I think that any government advocating grouping by perceived class would be writing their own obituary.

I don't like Of course its out dated, beacuse social factors more than ever muddy the concept of class with people who seem like "working class thugs" actually being very well off, and those who are some of the poorest people in our land and further afar in the world are actually the brightest in the world..

Do you mind if I disseminate this statement? Firstly, 'Seem like being 'working class thugs actually being very well off.' Your statement seems to suggest that in your mind thuggery is linked to class and once again you haven't grasped that class is not about money but is a state of mind, it's cultural. The second part is irrelevant and a truism. Of course some of the poorest people in the land are the brightest. What's that got to do with working class thuggery? And why mention further afield? Absolutely useless in trying to back up your flimsy argument.

Theres the school children who follow the protest, and while they are there learn about why they're protesting.

School children on the march 'learning' about why they are marching would seem a bit presumptive, wouldn't it, not to say downright patronising. Just as well there's sage people like yourself who are there on hand to tell the kids what's really going down - that's when you're not telling the 42 year olds how ignorant they are.

Power to the people.

 

[Djmiles]

I'd be interested in knowing how university could be made better value for money. Even £6,000 a year sounds a lot for what you actually get.

£6,000 a year for about 1 hour a week one to one with a tutor, and 15 hours of lectures? Are you sure?

 

[KneeOn]

You've made yourself look a right cock posting that.

I know.

If I wanted to look good on this board, I wouldn't say half of what i do. If we all wanted to look good on this board, we wouldn't really have much of a board now would we.

I stand by the statement that just beacuse we're young, doesn't mean we should be mocked for protesting.

The ignorance comment was one that came from frustration and I appologize since it was wrong to say that. I stand by the underlying feeling of it though, we're pissed off at the rises and now finding a lack of willingness to admit that yes its a large rise (even if you agree or not with the need for a rise) is starting to cause some ill thought out comments.

Of course you're not ignorant as a generation. Thats madness. It is ignorant to mock the widespread student movement of this month and next month though, if you're not in the situation your self. Its easy to say things when its not you which both my comment and who's ever I quoted (I think it was The Spanish?) proved at differing levels.

 

[Uncle C]

There is a way to solve the funding issue. Currently 20% of students expect to go to Uni. In 1970 it was only 5%.

So, firstly re-instate A level exams that can weed out the inelligible. With a 75% reduction in student numbers, the system will once again pay for itself with the existing funding.

Having only 5% of the country getting to university did not damage the country or the economy.

 

[KneeOn]

Of course stereotyping will occur but your stereotyping is lazy and out-of-date as Collar Feeler has explained. 'upper working class'? That's not a class anyway on the ABCDE scale that most social commentators use. I think your grasp of this subject is not as strong as you think it is. I particularly like the highlight on the word 'like'. Your 'not wanting to pigeonhole but have to here because you are dealing with large groups of people' is a nonsense of an idea. Pigeonholing/Stereotyping - whatever you want to call it only ever happens because of the (perceived) habits of a large groups.

'No government can look at cases individually........so class distinctions will come with the grouping.....'

Really? Governments are not going to look at cases on an individual basis? They've already said they will to ensure that poor children don't get disadvantaged. The efficacy of such a measure remains to be seen but I think that any government advocating grouping by perceived class would be writing their own obituary.



Do you mind if I disseminate this statement? Firstly, 'Seem like being 'working class thugs actually being very well off.' Your statement seems to suggest that in your mind thuggery is linked to class and once again you haven't grasped that class is not about money but is a state of mind, it's cultural. The second part is irrelevant and a truism. Of course some of the poorest people in the land are the brightest. What's that got to do with working class thuggery? And why mention further afield? Absolutely useless in trying to back up your flimsy argument.



School children on the march 'learning' about why they are marching would seem a bit presumptive, wouldn't it, not to say downright patronising. Just as well there's sage people like yourself who are there on hand to tell the kids what's really going down - that's when you're not telling the 42 year olds how ignorant they are.

Power to the people.

You know something? I f***ing hated sociology. I dropped it after I scrapped a C. Its not my strong point.
The upper middle class might not be on the ABCDE scale (which i've never been taught and only seen roughly mentioned in a few articles). If we're going to use class I wanted to make the distinction between the absolute poorest and those who would fit a working class description yet not get help.

THe point you have made that i've put in bold, is actually EXACTLY what I was trying to say but explained much better.

There is still a perception of class in England despite what people say. Some of the people at my college and other colleges and their families are so snobbish because they've got money and others havn't, its sickening at times. I tried to use an example: thuggish (although maybe animimalistic/dirty behaviour would have been better) behaviour IS still linked to class and income, even though it isn't. Sorry for a lack of clairity.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

£6,000 a year for about 1 hour a week one to one with a tutor, and 15 hours of lectures? Are you sure?

Am I sure of what - that it isn't value for money for that? Yep!

 

[KneeOn]

There is a way to solve the funding issue. Currently 20% of students expect to go to Uni. In 1970 it was only 5%.

So, firstly re-instate A level exams that can weed out the inelligible. With a 75% reduction in student numbers, the system will once again pay for itself with the existing funding.

Having only 5% of the country getting to university did not damage the country or the economy.

In 1975 England had an industry that didn't require Uni attendance. We don't have that anymore. Like it or not modern and technical industry is the new factory/mine work, and if a degree from Uni is the only way of getting the skills for todays work force then thats how it is going to have to be.

 

[KneeOn]

While I think the students have a fair point about the fees, the organisers have shown their true colours with all the political undertones to the last protest. Walking round with "Tory Scum" banners - what's that got to do with student fees?
Couple that with the rent-a-mob anarchists and you lose alot of public support. Had labour won the election and done the same thing, and they would've done the same thing, I bet there wouldn't be half the fuss.

If it were labour in power, those banners would read Labour Scum.

Anger is fueling a lot of these protests and what we think of those who are making the cuts will be shouted, its part of a protest. It hasn't got a direct link with student protest apart from the fact its a Tory policy...

 

[KneeOn]

£6,000 a year for about 1 hour a week one to one with a tutor, and 15 hours of lectures? Are you sure?

He was agreeing with you (or rather you were agreeing with him!)