[News] Fair Point? 'Stop Litter Blame Game And Give Us More Bins'

[BadFish]

Not true I'm afraid. Or at least not completely true. The two biggest public parks in Tokyo both have plenty of bins. Couldn't say off the top of my head about the other, smaller parks.

It is true that if there aren't any bins the Japanese will take their rubbish home with them. There is very little litter, even in a city the size and density of Tokyo.

Going out on a limb here but am I right that in Japanese schools the students do the cleaning? I am sure that I have read this somewhere.

If true, perhaps there is a link here between being taught to clean up after yourself as a kid and not leaving shit for someone else to clean up as an adult.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Going out on a limb here but am I right that in Japanese schools the students do the cleaning? I am sure that I have read this somewhere.

If true, perhaps there is a link here between being taught to clean up after yourself as a kid and not leaving shit for someone else to clean up as an adult.

I believe so. Obviously not the hardcore cleaning but they do generally do cleaning/tidying of the schools as far as I'm aware.

It's a culturally ingrained attitude I think. After sporting events there will be big bags at the end of rows and everyone will take their litter and leave it in there. Same with things like sakura/fireworks viewing parties(or any kind of gatherings) in public, everyone cleans up after themselves.

The Japanese are taught from a young age to follow social norms, there's almost a prescribed action for every situation and everyone follows it, creating a well oiled, 'harmonious' society.

The Japanese see in terms of the group, the u.k(and presumably Australia and the other western nations) are about the individual. It's not a major surprise then when the U.K has more obvious selfish attitudes and behaviours.

 

[BadFish]

I believe so. Obviously not the hardcore cleaning but they do generally do cleaning/tidying of the schools as far as I'm aware.

It's a culturally ingrained attitude I think. After sporting events there will be big bags at the end of rows and everyone will take their litter and leave it in there. Same with things like sakura/fireworks viewing parties(or any kind of gatherings) in public, everyone cleans up after themselves.

The Japanese are taught from a young age to follow social norms, there's almost a prescribed action for every situation and everyone follows it, creating a well oiled, 'harmonious' society.

The Japanese see in terms of the group, the u.k(and presumably Australia and the other western nations) are about the individual. It's not a major surprise then when the U.K has more obvious selfish attitudes and behaviours.

That is interesting.

I was thinking that it might be a start to teach children to clean up after themselves from an early age. Obviously, parents do this but having things backed up at school is hugely powerful. And let's face it, often as parents, it is often just easier to do it yourself.

However, from what you say here we are some distance away from thinking about the whole of society rather than just individual rights. I guess a cultural shift like this would take a great deal of time and effort.

I suppose Thatcher's quote from years ago saying that there is no such thing as society was more telling than I had originally considered.

We do have litter and mess in Australia but nothing as horrifying as I have seen from the UK in the last few weeks. (having said that I am sure that if a media outlet so desired it could cherry-pick some horrific pictures).

 

[Robinjakarta]

I believe so. Obviously not the hardcore cleaning but they do generally do cleaning/tidying of the schools as far as I'm aware.

It's a culturally ingrained attitude I think. After sporting events there will be big bags at the end of rows and everyone will take their litter and leave it in there. Same with things like sakura/fireworks viewing parties(or any kind of gatherings) in public, everyone cleans up after themselves.

The Japanese are taught from a young age to follow social norms, there's almost a prescribed action for every situation and everyone follows it, creating a well oiled, 'harmonious' society.

The Japanese see in terms of the group, the u.k(and presumably Australia and the other western nations) are about the individual. It's not a major surprise then when the U.K has more obvious selfish attitudes and behaviours.

That's exactly as I understand it from the time I spent in Japan.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

That is interesting.

I was thinking that it might be a start to teach children to clean up after themselves from an early age. Obviously, parents do this but having things backed up at school is hugely powerful. And let's face it, often as parents, it is often just easier to do it yourself.

However, from what you say here we are some distance away from thinking about the whole of society rather than just individual rights. I guess a cultural shift like this would take a great deal of time and effort.

I suppose Thatcher's quote from years ago saying that there is no such thing as society was more telling than I had originally considered.

We do have litter and mess in Australia but nothing as horrifying as I have seen from the UK in the last few weeks. (having said that I am sure that if a media outlet so desired it could cherry-pick some horrific pictures).

It would definitely help if parents and teachers were on the same page and backed each other up and I'm sure in a lot of cases they do.

It's just the depth and broadness of scope to which Japan adheres to the group and rules that is remarkable. It's an entirely different way of thinking to the U.K. It brings about a lot of positive things that we look on at with admiration. There is of course a negative flip side but that's for another day!

There's quite an interesting book on the difference of 'Western' and 'Eastern' thought and the role culture plays in it called The Geography of Thought by Richard Nesbitt. The West is basically the States while the East is China in the book but there's enough there to highlight the general differences between the cultural thought patterns between the two. It certainly was enough to make me view the differences between the U.K and Japan through a different prism.

 

[Robinjakarta]

It would definitely help if parents and teachers were on the same page and backed each other up and I'm sure in a lot of cases they do.

It's just the depth and broadness of scope to which Japan adheres to the group and rules that is remarkable. It's an entirely different way of thinking to the U.K. It brings about a lot of positive things that we look on at with admiration. There is of course a negative flip side but that's for another day!

There's quite an interesting book on the difference of 'Western' and 'Eastern' thought and the role culture plays in it called The Geography of Thought by Richard Nesbitt. The West is basically the States while the East is China in the book but there's enough there to highlight the general differences between the cultural thought patterns between the two. It certainly was enough to make me view the differences between the U.K and Japan through a different prism.

Sounds an interesting book. I'd just like to make one thing clear though in the litter context. We could learn a huge amount from Japan and perhaps South Korea and Singapore but not necessarily from other Asian countries about littering and bins, and definitely not from China, Thailand, Vietnam and Indonesia, all of which have serious littering problems.

 

[sydney]

That's the human race for you, we are given a paradise, yet we have an inbuilt desire to ruin it. So sad.

lazy ****whitts.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Like a few on this thread, I've got to the point where I take a litter picker and bag in my local woods when I walk the dog. I've picked every cliche possible. Beer cans, Sweet wrappers, Dog shit bags in trees, face masks and a whole lot more. It's wearying and depressing.

I've got to the stage where I probably won't bother anymore. It always comes back, it just encourages people to drop it as they know someone will clean up their shit and all it does is wind me up. Perhaps if they turned up and it was a shit pit, they'd be less likely to go there in the first place? I don't know the answer but I just don't understand the mentality of going to a beautiful place and then leaving all your shit behind. *****.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I believe so. Obviously not the hardcore cleaning but they do generally do cleaning/tidying of the schools as far as I'm aware.

It's a culturally ingrained attitude I think. After sporting events there will be big bags at the end of rows and everyone will take their litter and leave it in there. Same with things like sakura/fireworks viewing parties(or any kind of gatherings) in public, everyone cleans up after themselves.

The Japanese are taught from a young age to follow social norms, there's almost a prescribed action for every situation and everyone follows it, creating a well oiled, 'harmonious' society.

The Japanese see in terms of the group, the u.k(and presumably Australia and the other western nations) are about the individual. It's not a major surprise then when the U.K has more obvious selfish attitudes and behaviours.

Good summary. It’s not just Japan as well. Chinese cultures also value the group over the individual. Covid has shone a light on the selfishness of the West in comparison. The state of public spaces in this country and the attitude that if the bin is full then it is acceptable to put rubbish close to it is very Western. As mentioned by Jevs, there is an attitude of ‘blame the authorities’ over here (not enough bins) and that also has parallels with Covid attitudes.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Like a few on this thread, I've got to the point where I take a litter picker and bag in my local woods when I walk the dog. I've picked every cliche possible. Beer cans, Sweet wrappers, Dog shit bags in trees, face masks and a whole lot more. It's wearying and depressing.

I've got to the stage where I probably won't bother anymore. It always comes back, it just encourages people to drop it as they know someone will clean up their shit and all it does is wind me up. Perhaps if they turned up and it was a shit pit, they'd be less likely to go there in the first place? I don't know the answer but I just don't understand the mentality of going to a beautiful place and then leaving all your shit behind. *****.

I feel your pain, when I do it I can get somewhat despondent with human scum, especially when I return somewhere and it's littered again. However, I politely disagree about not bothering anymore. I believe if a place is clean then someone is less likely to be the first to drop litter, however , if there is already litter then they will add to it. People are ****ing sheep after all. Please don't stop your litterpicking. It also attracts attention and conversation and inspires others to do the same, imo.

edit - if you join the Tidy Up Team for Brighton you'll get a litterpicker, blue bags (with access to more) and a hoop, and a lovely yellow hiviz

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Sounds an interesting book. I'd just like to make one thing clear though in the litter context. We could learn a huge amount from Japan and perhaps South Korea and Singapore but not necessarily from other Asian countries about littering and bins, and definitely not from China, Thailand, Vietnam and Indonesia, all of which have serious littering problems.

That's probably true. Whilst a lot of(or some at least) Japanese culture can be traced back to ancient China their expression of it in this regard is very different. I've never been to Singapore but I understand it' approach to littering is more in line with that advocated by some people on this tread - heavy punishments and fines. Korea is pretty clean, similar to Japan, as I remember it.

Good summary. It’s not just Japan as well. Chinese cultures also value the group over the individual. Covid has shone a light on the selfishness of the West in comparison. The state of public spaces in this country and the attitude that if the bin is full then it is acceptable to put rubbish close to it is very Western. As mentioned by Jevs, there is an attitude of ‘blame the authorities’ over here (not enough bins) and that also has parallels with Covid attitudes.

Yes, it's been interesting watching how the different cultures/societies have responded to covid.

 

[jackanada]

In criminology there is the broken windows theory. In the instance of littering this means as soon as one bit of litter is left other people are more likely to litter, and once there's a lot of litter they're a lot more likely to.
I used to take the kids to East Brighton park and in the play area I'd frequently see parents just dropping their litter in any random corner.
Then I had a long stretch where I'd be there first thing and the kids and I would play tidy up and clear up the whole place.
Now it might be unrelated but when I went on the afternoons again I didn't notice anyone dropping litter.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I feel your pain, when I do it I can get somewhat despondent with human scum, especially when I return somewhere and it's littered again. However, I politely disagree about not bothering anymore. I believe if a place is clean then someone is less likely to be the first to drop litter, however , if there is already litter then they will add to it. People are ****ing sheep after all. Please don't stop your litterpicking. It also attracts attention and conversation and inspires others to do the same, imo.

edit - if you join the Tidy Up Team for Brighton you'll get a litterpicker, blue bags (with access to more) and a hoop, and a lovely yellow hiviz

I think things will get better - and i will be less wound up by it all - when the pubs open. The dickheads who drink cans of shite lager can all piss off to the beer garden of Yates wine Lodge for a pint and a fight instead of trashing the local environment. What I will probably do is carry on picking but only once a week or so which is better for my blood pressure.

 

[pearl]

OK, this is probably a ridiculous idea, but I have often wondered what Joe Public would do if their rubbish was just left there to pile up.

 

[jevs]

OK, this is probably a ridiculous idea, but I have often wondered what Joe Public would do if their rubbish was just left there to pile up.

There would be protests and riots against the council for not picking it up. And when the protests clear, the litter would be twice as bad

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

OK, this is probably a ridiculous idea, but I have often wondered what Joe Public would do if their rubbish was just left there to pile up.

As above, they would add to it as it is less difficult to decide to litter when others have done the same. They see the pile of rubbish as a de facto bin and assume the authorities will pick it up. We have just got back from a walk through the woods alongside the canal and someone had hung a couple of plastic bags randomly on a post. They were full to overflowing with dog bags, plastic bottles etc. I have no idea who these people think are going to take this rubbish away.

 

[portlock seagull]

Like a few on this thread, I've got to the point where I take a litter picker and bag in my local woods when I walk the dog. I've picked every cliche possible. Beer cans, Sweet wrappers, Dog shit bags in trees, face masks and a whole lot more. It's wearying and depressing.

I've got to the stage where I probably won't bother anymore. It always comes back, it just encourages people to drop it as they know someone will clean up their shit and all it does is wind me up. Perhaps if they turned up and it was a shit pit, they'd be less likely to go there in the first place? I don't know the answer but I just don't understand the mentality of going to a beautiful place and then leaving all your shit behind. *****.

Commendable, I do similarly. But never under estimate the amount of filth these pigs are prepared to roll in. There’s never enough litter in that respect.

 

[portlock seagull]

As above, they would add to it as it is less difficult to decide to litter when others have done the same. They see the pile of rubbish as a de facto bin and assume the authorities will pick it up. We have just got back from a walk through the woods alongside the canal and someone had hung a couple of plastic bags randomly on a post. They were full to overflowing with dog bags, plastic bottles etc. I have no idea who these people think are going to take this rubbish away.

I regularly walk in a place where there’s no dog poo bins and see similarly. It makes my piss boil. All I do after picking up after my pouch if she goes is hang the smelly bag to the back windscreen wiper on the car and dispose of when get home. It’s so simple and yet these morons just leave behind for others to pick up. Which I do from time to time, including bagging dog shit left in middle of path etc for someone like me to come along and tread in. I just don’t understand it and as you’ll know, I can’t abide by litter louts and general disrespect for our countryside and wildlife. I was taught from a very early age the countryside code, not to drop litter and also my school regularly took different groups out to collect litter in local community during lunch breaks. No quibbles, no parents upset by, no kids protesting. Shut up. Get on with. Take responsibility.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.li...nned-kingdom-litter-squad-kicked-15416780.amp

This is what happens when you try to enforce a proper anti littering policy. Some idiot local politician starts playing to the gallery and ruins it.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Think my favourite litter-related story of (I think) last year was when some wise guy set up a cheapo gazebo in Stanmer Park, had a bit of a chavfest with his chav family and friends and then left the whole kaboodle behind for somebody else to clear up, including the cheapo gazebo. Sadly/Happily he left the receipt for the cheapo gazebo behind, was subsequently traced and fined