[Misc] F1 2021

[Icy Gull]

This article is quite depressing as it suggests that the very close season of racing that we thought we were going to get quite possibly won’t happen now. Shame, as the first few races were brilliant.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57632228

This bit in particular shocks me tbh, will Mercedes have a rethink or are they chucking in the towel on this season. How very un German

“Worse than that for Hamilton, it emerged over the weekend that Mercedes have basically stopped developing their car, and Red Bull very much have not. "We need an upgrade of some kind," Hamilton said, only for his team boss Toto Wolff to make it clear that one was not coming”

 

[Deleted member 2719]

I think the biggest bone that I'd pick out of that incredible rant is that Toto Wolff only joined Williams in 2009 and didn't join the Mercs till 2013 - five years after Lewis won a title with McLaren!

Rant....hardly?
Incredible.....why thank you.

So you are saying that Toto does not know or has not studied all the data at Merc in the last 8 years then?
He said it Live on Sky. Is he lying? Is he wrong?
I guess you are a Twitter man, you'd better tweet him, I am sure he will be straight back to you.


Come on the Merc has done the business and there is a slight chance that they may crack, exciting for the sport don't you think? A chance for all the other talented drivers who may get a sniff at challenging for points. Ferrari is not my favourite team but they seem to be gaining ground with Mc Claren all good for the sport and the drivers showing their talents.



Once Ricciardo and Perez sort themselves out, there should be some entertaining races right up front and in that second pack to the end of the season now.

How exciting does it get?

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

This article is quite depressing as it suggests that the very close season of racing that we thought we were going to get quite possibly won’t happen now. Shame, as the first few races were brilliant.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57632228

This bit in particular shocks me tbh, will Mercedes have a rethink or are they chucking in the towel on this season. How very un German

“Worse than that for Hamilton, it emerged over the weekend that Mercedes have basically stopped developing their car, and Red Bull very much have not. "We need an upgrade of some kind," Hamilton said, only for his team boss Toto Wolff to make it clear that one was not coming”

I think there is a lot of nuance and mind games at work. All teams will be looking at the rule changes for 2022, so Toto doesn't want to send any additional signals whatsoever to Redbull that they need to pile development into this car to secure the title this year.

 

[Audax]

So, without picking any particular quotes to pull apart:

1) Hamilton is something special as a driver. Regardless of how big an impact his car has had on his achievement, he's still a step up on most other drivers in F1. He matched Alonso in his rookie year, he's beaten every team mate he's ever had, and other than a few patchy periods he's always been "on it".

2) The same as above can be said about Verstappen, with the exception that Verstappen hasn't been around as long and still needs to prove he can do it season after season after season.

3) Both Max and Hamilton are proving it by how big a margin they have over their current team mates. Neither Bottas nor Perez are slow. They are "upper-middle" tier drivers that most teams on the grid would be happy to have as their #1, and the rest happy to have them in either seat. It's only the quality of Hamilton and Verstappen that is generating the big gaps between them.

4) Setting aside their qualities as drivers, both Hamilton and Verstappen have a few character flaws. That seems to be a very common trait of those drivers who can reach the very top (eg Senna, Micheal Schumacher) - they're very selfish, very self-confident (/arrogant), instinct is that any errors aren't theirs unless it's blatantly obvious. Hamilton has matured a lot, especially in recent years as he's put more time and effort into "social good" activities. Verstappen will probably do the same as he ages.

5) Norris is having a fantastic season. He's driving really, really well, and making good decisions along with it. The one question mark in my mind is how much he's being flattered by Ricciardo's struggles to get on top of the quirks of the McLaren. With the cars due to change a lot for next year, I have a suspicion that we won't see the best of Ricciardo at all this season. It'll be next season, with a new car that should hopefully be free of the quirk that's throwing him off kilter that we'll really see exactly how good Norris is.

6) Russell needs to be in the second Merc seat next season. I have a sneaky suspicion it'll happen alongside Bottas retiring.

7) The Red Bull top speed advantage: apparently the "full" story is partly down to the rear wing configuration I mentioned earlier in this thread, but also they've found something on the electrical management side that they are allowed to change under the current rules. That may well explain what Sky were saying about them finding something at altitude.

 

[Icy Gull]

I think there is a lot of nuance and mind games at work. All teams will be looking at the rule changes for 2022, so Toto doesn't want to send any additional signals whatsoever to Redbull that they need to pile development into this car to secure the title this year.

I’d agree…if they weren’t slipping further behind Red Bull every race

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

4) Setting aside their qualities as drivers, both Hamilton and Verstappen have a few character flaws. That seems to be a very common trait of those drivers who can reach the very top (eg Senna, Micheal Schumacher) - they're very selfish, very self-confident (/arrogant), instinct is that any errors aren't theirs unless it's blatantly obvious. Hamilton has matured a lot, especially in recent years as he's put more time and effort into "social good" activities. Verstappen will probably do the same as he ages.

This is pretty common across all elite sport, the mindset required to reach the top and to squeeze every last drop out of their talent tends not to be conducive to a well rounded personality.

I'm always fascinated by the mind games that must go on in formula one, where most of the drivers on the grid are by any sensible standard incredibly talented and committed, yet have little to no realistic chance of even getting on the podium.

 

[Audax]

This is pretty common across all elite sport, the mindset required to reach the top and to squeeze every last drop out of their talent tends not to be conducive to a well rounded personality.

Yup. There's a certain something about what it takes to make that step from being just "very, very good" to being "unbeatable".

 

[zefarelly]

Yup. There's a certain something about what it takes to make that step from being just "very, very good" to being "unbeatable".

The Ronaldo factor, or premium c***ery .

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

I’d agree…if they weren’t slipping further behind Red Bull every race

Red Bull have been very strong in Austria in recent years. The French Grand Prix was decided on a tactical call rather than either Max or Lewis being in the faster car. Monaco is another anomaly really where you can't read too much into it - otherwise you'd conclude Ferrari had the fastest car in 2017 (Vettel having won 3, then 2nd place x 3 in the opening 6 races...).

So likely going to be a tough race again for Mercedes at the same track next week, but British Grand Prix after that should be a bit more of a leveller.

 

[zefarelly]

This is pretty common across all elite sport, the mindset required to reach the top and to squeeze every last drop out of their talent tends not to be conducive to a well rounded personality.

I'm always fascinated by the mind games that must go on in formula one, where most of the drivers on the grid are by any sensible standard incredibly talented and committed, yet have little to no realistic chance of even getting on the podium.

I can only only guess, but from my own low level motorsport experiences, you look at your immediate surroundings and set yourself a target based on a realistic expectation of your car and abilities. . . .be that top 10, class win ( obviously not in F1, but here are kind of 3 levels within) and beat your team mate.

 

[zefarelly]

Red Bull have been very strong in Austria in recent years. The French Grand Prix was decided on a tactical call rather than either Max or Lewis being in the faster car. Monaco is another anomaly really where you can't read too much into it - otherwise you'd conclude Ferrari had the fastest car in 2017 (Vettel having won 3, then 2nd place x 3 in the opening 6 races...).

So likely going to be a tough race again for Mercedes at the same track next week, but British Grand Prix after that should be a bit more of a leveller.

Agreed. Sillystone aerodrome and then Spa-Francorchamp will sort the men from the boys.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Agreed. Sillystone aerodrome and then Spa-Francorchamp will sort the men from the boys.

Seems a long time ago but Ferrari in 2017 and 2018 looked faster than Mercedes than Red Bull currently do this season as you got to the halfway point. Had the Ferraris not collided in Singapore or had a mechanical in Japan Vettel may well have won the 2017 title. 2018 again Ferrari looked the faster car up until Vettel stacked it in Germany. I don't buy into the narrative Mercedes have always been the faster car. Long way to go this season.

 

[Icy Gull]

Seems a long time ago but Ferrari in 2017 and 2018 looked faster than Mercedes than Red Bull currently do this season as you got to the halfway point. Had the Ferraris not collided in Singapore or had a mechanical in Japan Vettel may well have won the 2017 title. 2018 again Ferrari looked the faster car up until Vettel stacked it in Germany. I don't buy into the narrative Mercedes have always been the faster car. Long way to go this season.

Sadly, for this Hamilton fan, Verstappen has not yet made the mistakes that Vettel did when under pressure, although both him and Lewis are sounding pretty stressed in radio transmissions during the race.

It’’s a myth that the Mercs have always been faster, even last season the Red Bulls were quicker at some tracks, as were Ferrari from memory.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I can only only guess, but from my own low level motorsport experiences, you look at your immediate surroundings and set yourself a target based on a realistic expectation of your car and abilities. . . .be that top 10, class win ( obviously not in F1, but here are kind of 3 levels within) and beat your team mate.

This is why I agree with [MENTION=33374]Audax[/MENTION] that Russell needs to be in a Merc next season. Being Mr Saturday and then often retiring or lacking race pace isn't really going to cut it for another season, surely.?

 

[Icy Gull]

This is why I agree with [MENTION=33374]Audax[/MENTION] that Russell needs to be in a Merc next season. Being Mr Saturday and then often retiring or lacking race pace isn't really going to cut it for another season, surely.?

I think it’s nailed on that he’ll be in the Mercs next year. I wonder if Lewis will if they continue to fall behind Red Bull though, although not sure any other team would appeal to him. I can see a massive falling out for Lewis if he keeps being off the pace. Will he have the mentality to bin this season for next?

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

I can only only guess, but from my own low level motorsport experiences, you look at your immediate surroundings and set yourself a target based on a realistic expectation of your car and abilities. . . .be that top 10, class win ( obviously not in F1, but here are kind of 3 levels within) and beat your team mate.

I suppose fundamentally all sportsmen or women reach the limit of ability at some point, whether it's a driver never getting a seat in a Mercedes or a footballer not cutting it in the Premier League.

It must be quite a shift for a driver who's reached formula one, to be just one step off the very pinnacle, to realise they're going to spend the foreseeable future being told to give space for the race leaders a few times in most races.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Sadly, for this Hamilton fan, Verstappen has not yet made the mistakes that Vettel did when under pressure, although both him and Lewis are sounding pretty stressed in radio transmissions during the race.

It’’s a myth that the Mercs have always been faster, even last season the Red Bulls were quicker at some tracks, as were Ferrari from memory.

It's almost like the Mercs as a team had an exceptional driver to make up the difference when they didn't have the faster car.

 

[zefarelly]

I suppose fundamentally all sportsmen or women reach the limit of ability at some point, whether it's a driver never getting a seat in a Mercedes or a footballer not cutting it in the Premier League.

It must be quite a shift for a driver who's reached formula one, to be just one step off the very pinnacle, to realise they're going to spend the foreseeable future being told to give space for the race leaders a few times in most races.

For the first 6 or so years of racing I was just enjoying it, getting a few class wins, never troubling the front, it was often against much bigger and faster cars anyway . . . First Goodwood revival I was just making up the numbers. Then I suddenly found myself half competitive, and really started trying. actually got a few front rows, then podiums, then in 2011 qualified 9th at the Revival, which was most unexpected over 1.5s faster than Derek Bell in my car. After that I had a good year, got a pole win and FL @ Snetterton . . . . Trouble with historics is cheating and money men, but mine was hard graft, it really took its toll and I was knackererd and skint after a year of that. . . . have had a few years break, with the odd excursion, but looking forward to getting out again next season.

May even See Bottas at a few historic meetings ;-) a lot of drivers take to it after retiring. the BTCC boys have taken it to a different (and of dubiously legality) level, we just have to accept theyre going to win and we fight over whats left.

 

[Audax]

Ahhhh, now this is interesting. hadn't seen it mentioned elsewhere, and it's buried in the middle of a longer article, but from here:

[...] there have been suggestions that [Red Bull] has been running its first set of power unit components at a slightly reduced output, owing to a vibration that had become worrisome when it first tested the car during pre-season testing.

However, with the introduction of the second power unit in its allocation, it has been able to fix that issue and unlock some additional performance - thought to be in the region of 10-15bhp.

This, allied to its ability to run with less rear wing because more of the downforce from its high-rake concept can be generated by the floor/diffuser, has given it a crucial straightline speed advantage over Mercedes.

So, bingo. While the power units for this season are homologated, reliability changes *are* allowed, and those reliability changes are allowed to unlock performance as long as that performance was previously missing because of countermeasures to ensure reliability.

 

[Icy Gull]

Ahhhh, now this is interesting. hadn't seen it mentioned elsewhere, and it's buried in the middle of a longer article, but from here:



So, bingo. While the power units for this season are homologated, reliability changes *are* allowed, and those reliability changes are allowed to unlock performance as long as that performance was previously missing because of countermeasures to ensure reliability.

, excellent research there.