Europe: In or Out

[Pretty pink fairy]

I think Germany ( aka Merkel) will herself be under big pressure to slow this migration down, and the overheads that EU migration is having on her country. Dont forget, that once naturalised, with most of them having no papers at all, the non-EU migrantys become EU migrants, and can then work or live anywhere they choose.

every reason to make sure they can't come here then
regards
DR

 

[Pavilionaire]

The British electorate have shown time and again that when the polls are tight they opt for the status quo - we saw it with the Scottish Referendum, we saw it in the General Election of 2015 and we saw it in 1992.

So unless the Eurozone completely collapses or there is an invasion of asylum seekers from Calais I can't see the OUT camp winning.

Their cause is not helped by Nigel Farage's hapless performance in GE 2015. Losing the seat he was standing for, then tendering his resignation as leader has taken away his aura. I think the OUT camp needed him the way he was before GE2015.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The in camp must want sharia law and see their wifes and daughters raped like what's happening across the EU. 80% of refugees are unskilled welfare scrounging raping economic migrants.

18 yr old Afgan refugee raped an 73 yr old lady in her back garden and received 18 months in prison but cant deport him.

Last week, 20 Muslim migrants snatched an 12 year old schoolgirl from the street and gang raped her for 40 hours.

You vote to stay in and your wife and children will be raped and Anglia Merkel has said when the UK votes in then we must take in 800,000 3rd world Muslim men.

its happened in Rochdale and Rotherham already
regards
DR

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Brexit is not 'fear of the unknown' it is damaging and costly disruption to the UK economy.

"Mark Carney has warned of financial instability, higher interest rates and capital flight if Britain voted to leave the EU, saying the country could not depend on “the kindness of strangers” to fund the country’s deficits."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b1d9e160-c440-11e5-808f-8231cd71622e.html

Also "I think we can leverage it by public sector reform, education reform, structural investment in public services and corporate tax incentives that we would not otherwise be able to offer while remaining in the EU. Witness the EU vs Google/Facebook/Apple et al tax storm that is approaching..."

This is a great reason to stay in the EU.

Still dressing up opinion as fact I see. Nobody, in either camp, knows what the effect of a Brexit will be ..... even Mark Carney. For starters nobody knows what deals will be struck on exit and the reason nobody knows is that no member has ever left ..... there aren't even any rules / guidelines in the EU library for an exit because they were arrogant to believe nobody would ever leave.

You seem to swallow the line of the CBI et al completely - they have some very heavy self interest in this which somewhat shows in their statements. Statements that are never backed up with hard data .... I wonder why ?

 

[daveinprague]

.

Last week, 20 Muslim migrants snatched an 12 year old schoolgirl from the street and gang raped her for 40 hours.

Despite the police saying there is no evidence of rape on this Russian girl.
'German lawyer Martin Luithle has now reported the Russian journalist behind the report, Ivan Blagoy, to the police for incitement.
The case has been taken up enthusiastically by right-wing extremists in a bid to fuel anti-migrant sentiment.'

 

[5ways]

Still dressing up opinion as fact I see. Nobody, in either camp, knows what the effect of a Brexit will be ..... even Mark Carney. For starters nobody knows what deals will be struck on exit and the reason nobody knows is that no member has ever left ..... there aren't even any rules / guidelines in the EU library for an exit because they were arrogant to believe nobody would ever leave.

You seem to swallow the line of the CBI et al completely - they have some very heavy self interest in this which somewhat shows in their statements. Statements that are never backed up with hard data .... I wonder why ?

If you read my posts I have provided hard data about how much we benefit from EU membership. CBI fact sheets sum-up some of the main points http://news.cbi.org.uk/campaigns/our-global-future/factsheets/. The CBI represents its members: British businesses. The point of a business is to be self-interested and indeed polls tell us that they believe it is in their strong self-interest to remain in the EU. If they were not self-interested and wanted to give up on the idea of turning a profit they might decide to leave instead.

Mark Carney is about as informed as you can get so will have a pretty good handle on what might happen if we leave. He also has to be politically neutral, but he's dropping strong hints and keeping a straight face when the clear subtext is this is a terrible idea, what are you thinking?.

You're right we don't know exactly what Brexit negotiations would looks like, but they wouldn't be pretty:

"If this was bad enough, the second part of the war games, a mock-up of how the EU would respond to a vote for Brexit, was worse. Lord Lamont, a former Tory chancellor of the exchequer representing Britain, argued that an “amicable divorce” was in everybody’s interests. Britain could negotiate a trade deal similar to Canada’s, liberating it from EU rules, including free movement of people. He even volunteered to pay something into the EU budget.

Yet other countries were unimpressed. John Bruton, a former prime minister representing Ireland, said Brexit would be seen as an “unfriendly act” and would threaten the peace process in Northern Ireland (Enda Kenny, Ireland’s real prime minister, made a similar point after meeting Mr Cameron on the same day). Steffen Kampeter, a former deputy finance minister representing Germany, said Britain would not be allowed to cherry-pick the benefits of membership without the costs. Mr de Gucht noted that a new trade deal would be negotiated by the European Commission and national governments with minimal British input. He and others added that they would try to shift Europe’s financial centre from London.

The starkest warning came from Leszek Balcerowicz, a former deputy prime minister representing Poland. He said the priority would be to deter populists in other countries who wanted to copy Brexit. For this reason Britain would be punished by its partners even if that seemed to be against their interests. Mr Cameron’s negotiations may be hard, but they are a picnic compared with what he would face were he to lose his referendum."

http://www.economist.com/news/brita...-david-cameron-do-deal-brussels-renegotiating

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Still dressing up opinion as fact I see. Nobody, in either camp, knows what the effect of a Brexit will be ..... even Mark Carney. For starters nobody knows what deals will be struck on exit and the reason nobody knows is that no member has ever left ..... there aren't even any rules / guidelines in the EU library for an exit because they were arrogant to believe nobody would ever leave.

You seem to swallow the line of the CBI et al completely - they have some very heavy self interest in this which somewhat shows in their statements. Statements that are never backed up with hard data .... I wonder why ?

If no one knows the effect, and there's no hard data.....how have you made your mind up then?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

If no one knows the effect, and there's no hard data.....how have you made your mind up then?

Where have I said / stated what will happen if we leave ?

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

The British electorate have shown time and again that when the polls are tight they opt for the status quo - we saw it with the Scottish Referendum, we saw it in the General Election of 2015 and we saw it in 1992.

So unless the Eurozone completely collapses or there is an invasion of asylum seekers from Calais I can't see the OUT camp winning.

Their cause is not helped by Nigel Farage's hapless performance in GE 2015. Losing the seat he was standing for, then tendering his resignation as leader has taken away his aura. I think the OUT camp needed him the way he was before GE2015.

The Italian premiere has warned Cameron about a poll in spring or early summer for this reason. When the weather improves and theres more boats full of little brown people heading accross the aegean....well.

its hugely disappointing to me that it has taken the very real prospect of the UK pulling out of the whole deal to get the other members to even consider the desires of the British people. Is that how it works then? wait until a member is either completely hacked off or totally broke before they act?

 

[crookie]

The Italian premiere has warned Cameron about a poll in spring or early summer for this reason. When the weather improves and theres more boats full of little brown people heading accross the aegean....well.

its hugely disappointing to me that it has taken the very real prospect of the UK pulling out of the whole deal to get the other members to even consider the desires of the British people. Is that how it works then? wait until a member is either completely hacked off or totally broke before they act?

That's because the beaurocrats who run the EU are so far removed from what ordinary people think about them, not just in Britain, that it would never occur to them that a member state might actually think about leaving

 

[Gwylan]

its hugely disappointing to me that it has taken the very real prospect of the UK pulling out of the whole deal to get the other members to even consider the desires of the British people. Is that how it works then? wait until a member is either completely hacked off or totally broke before they act?

You make it sound like trying to cancel your Sky or Virgin subscription

it would never occur to them that a member state might actually think about leaving

That's not really true. While no country has voted to leave, there have been several countries who have voted against European treaties (France, Denmark and Ireland) which could have served notice to leave. I think the EU bureaucrats are fully aware that some day a country could vote to leave (and remember that, while it's not a country, Greenland HAS voted to leave

 

[JC Footy Genius]

its hugely disappointing to me that it has taken the very real prospect of the UK pulling out of the whole deal to get the other members to even consider the desires of the British people. Is that how it works then? wait until a member is either completely hacked off or totally broke before they act?

Even consider is about right. The very limited concessions Cameron finally gets with the very real threat of the UK leaving shows how little influence we really have. It is humiliating watching our PM going cap in hand to Merkel and scuttling round European capitals begging for a few scraps to supposedly justify staying in.

Does anyone really think if we stay in and fully commit we can change the EU to better reflect our wishes when we get sod all on pain of Brexit.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

 

[Hampster Gull]

NSC has voted. We are STAYING

 

[dangull]

If the UK decided to leave, Scotland who will almost certainly vote no will demand another referendum.

I don't know if that will influence any ones vote in Sussex though.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If the UK decided to leave, Scotland who will almost certainly vote no will demand another referendum.

I don't know if that will influence any ones vote in Sussex though.

I think it's almost certain that Scotland will demand another vote and then vote to leave the UK. At least the Little Englanders will get the little England they want.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Operation Fear

I take it people in Scotland who want to break away from a long standing Union are Little Scotlanders.

Will the people in Scotland really vote to leave considering a central pillar of the case for Independence was the revenue from Oil underpinning their economy.

In addition there is no guarantee an independent Scotland would gain EU membership.

#Factsoverscaremongering

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I take it people in Scotland who want to break away from a long standing Union are Little Scotlanders.

Will the people in Scotland really vote to leave considering a central pillar of the case for Independence was the revenue from Oil underpinning their economy.

In addition there is no guarantee an independent Scotland would gain EU membership.

#Factsoverscaremongering

Scaremongering.....youre being a bit lazy here my friend. Explain to my you think differently instead of using a lazy comment like that. I know you can do better

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Scaremongering.....youre being a bit lazy here my friend. Explain to my you think differently instead of using a lazy comment like that. I know you can do better

Laziness is taking your lines off the SNP and pro EU scaremongering campaign.

I have already given two factual statements as to why your view is probably wrong. The Oil price has collapsed since the referendum and the then President of the EU said Scotland would not gain automatic membership of the EU. These are facts unlike the fear tactics used on the Pro EU side.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Laziness is taking your lines off the SNP and pro EU scaremongering campaign.

Do you not see the irony with this statement?