EDL in Sheffield

[daveinprague]

The stupid to little splinter groups with theatrical names I imagine...what is it with nazi lickers with theatrical names?

Noticed the NWI north east are trying to spread a rumour on their page that a major store in Newcastle is not having an xmas window, as it would offend other religions...its a lie...of course...
The answer denying that from the store, was actually posted on their page, but they deleted it...and continue to spread the lie.

****wits like that I guess..

 

[BadFish]

The main problem most people have with the EDL is that they are seen as angry racist thugs. The responses on here which put the blame on all Muslims instead of just the radicals just goes to prove the point. Until you chaps start to fight against the actual problem rather than blaming, vilifying and demonising a whole religion for the actions of a few people are going to oppose you and continue to think you are thick racist thugs. This will of course mean that the EDL will be taken more seriously and the groups opposing them will be deemed unnecessary.

Can someone please answer the question i keep asking?

Why do you expect Muslim's to take responsibility for the actions of other Muslims when you don't have the same expectations of people with other religious views?

I would also be interested in your opinions of why this thread has ended up being you few EDL supporters having a discussion with two people who live away from the UK (There are other countries in the world that have a Muslim population you know DR? We have the ADL over here which shows that there are also other countries in the world with thick racist thugs).

 

[Soulman]

I would also be interested in your opinions of why this thread has ended up being you few EDL supporters having a discussion with two people who live away from the UK

Maybe.
1) Because others, although may not like the EDL, they might feel that as precious little is being done about the problem, the EDL might jerk the government into acting/ where are the alternatives.
2) Perhaps others are bemused how two people that live so far away are experts on what is best for a country they do not live in, and any outcome will not affect them anyway.

 

[BadFish]

Maybe.
1) Because others, although may not like the EDL, they might feel that as precious little is being done about the problem, the EDL might jerk the government into acting/ where are the alternatives.
2) Perhaps others are bemused how two people that live so far away are experts on what is best for a country they do not live in, and any outcome will not affect them anyway.

Thanks for your thoughts.

just to address your point number two - Surely I can choose which threads to post on and what relevance they have to my life? It is a subject I am interested in and the outcomes will affect me as I have friends and family in the UK. Given that you live in Sompting, it could be suggested that in this case a miss is as good as as mile (unless things have changed an awful lot and Sompting is now over run with radical muslim clerics). Now you may tell me that you spend a lot of time in London, Burnley and Birmingham and that I shouldn't make assumptions about people based on their location.

anyway have a go at this one

Why do you expect Muslim's to take responsibility for the actions of other Muslims when you don't have the same expectations of people with other religious views?

 

[Soulman]

anyway have a go at this one

Why do you expect Muslim's to take responsibility for the actions of other Muslims when you don't have the same expectations of people with other religious views?

Ok, although i would have thought after 17 pages you may have got the gist.
Right firstly the EDL have a problem with extreme muslims, which is what the thread is about.
But, your point....... As in England we have no trouble with the other religions, then why do we need/"expect the same expectations of people with other religious views".
When and IF we have the same trouble from extreme Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists etc, in this country, then i would hope/expect that the moderates of these religions would act.
Thankfully we only seem to have one lot of extremists to worry about, the rest rub along nicely.

 

[Soulman]

Thanks for your thoughts.

just to address your point number two - Surely I can choose which threads to post on and what relevance they have to my life? It is a subject I am interested in and the outcomes will affect me as I have friends and family in the UK. Given that you live in Sompting, it could be suggested that in this case a miss is as good as as mile (unless things have changed an awful lot and Sompting is now over run with radical muslim clerics). Now you may tell me that you spend a lot of time in London, Burnley and Birmingham and that I shouldn't make assumptions about people based on their location.

Yep, as youv'e mentioned on a couple of occasions, i do live in Sompting where there is no trouble, probably won't be in my time, but like you i have family.
It was not too many years ago that you could walk through Tower Hamlets without it being a Sharia area, where you could get hassled (even beaten up as seen on YT) if you drink, are gay etc. As you stated, i have worked and lived in the midlands and north, many areas have changed up there as well eh.
So, Sompting is fine and dandy, let's hope for my children's sake that the same can be said in a few years.
Just to clarify again, we seem to have no problems with the other religions in England....do we.

 

[Ex-Staffs Gull]

All these groups are just filling a void, be it dissatisfied Muslims or WASPs. Any 'extreme' group feeds off anger, mainly generated by another group. Communists and Facsists; Muslims and Jews etc.

They are ALL looking to offend, cause trouble and conflict as the few at the top gain power. The thing the leaders are good at is making the foot soldiers feel like they are doing it for some just cause.

Cant stand any of them...

 

[BadFish]

Yep, as youv'e mentioned on a couple of occasions, i do live in Sompting where there is no trouble, probably won't be in my time, but like you i have family.
It was not too many years ago that you could walk through Tower Hamlets without it being a Sharia area, where you could get hassled (even beaten up as seen on YT) if you drink, are gay etc. As you stated, i have worked and lived in the midlands and north, many areas have changed up there as well eh.
So, Sompting is fine and dandy, let's hope for my children's sake that the same can be said in a few years.
Just to clarify again, we seem to have no problems with the other religions in England....do we.

Great, so now we have agreed that our location has little to do with the debate, perhaps you could stop using the 'you don't even live here' card during our discussions.

 

[BadFish]

Ok, although i would have thought after 17 pages you may have got the gist.
Right firstly the EDL have a problem with extreme muslims, which is what the thread is about.
But, your point....... As in England we have no trouble with the other religions, then why do we need/"expect the same expectations of people with other religious views".
When and IF we have the same trouble from extreme Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists etc, in this country, then i would hope/expect that the moderates of these religions would act.
Thankfully we only seem to have one lot of extremists to worry about, the rest rub along nicely.

No to be honest I don't get the gist. The fact that you decide to lump all Muslims together and draw your dividing lines along religious beliefs doesn't mean that they feel the same. Nor does it mean that the rest of us do. You simply cannot demand that someone takes responsibility for the behaviour of others because they share the same beliefs.

My opinion on this is simple. If you have a problem with radical Islam and you wish to make your feelings known then by all means do so. But to blame a whole religion for the actions of a few loonies who have taken the Koran and *******ised it for their own ends is wrong. The net effect of this is that people will call you a racist and people will take to the streets to oppose you. You will also marginalise those innocent Muslims who are not terrorists, do not have radical views and have done nothing illegal and drive them into the arms of the extremists. You have already stated you think there are more radicals out there and I think that this is because the Radicals want a war with the west and the EDL et al are giving it to them. Moderate Muslims are being asked to pick a side in this war and it is no surprise to me that they are not taking the side of the EDL who hate them for no other reason than their religion. Where does that leave them to go?

In short the racist hatred of the EDL is doing nothing to protect the county from the radicals it is doing the polar opposite and making the problem worse by sending more recruits the radical's way.

 

[Soulman]

Great, so now we have agreed that our location has little to do with the debate, perhaps you could stop using the 'you don't even live here' card during our discussions.

I live in England, i travel around in England. What happens in England affects me. You don't live in England, you live over the other side of the world. If extremists are causing trouble it will not affect you, it may your family that LIVE here, but not you.
My location, and the country i live in has a lot "to do with the debate".

 

[Soulman]

No to be honest I don't get the gist. The fact that you decide to lump all Muslims together and draw your dividing lines along religious beliefs doesn't mean that they feel the same. Nor does it mean that the rest of us do. You simply cannot demand that someone takes responsibility for the behaviour of others because they share the same beliefs.

My opinion on this is simple. If you have a problem with radical Islam and you wish to make your feelings known then by all means do so. But to blame a whole religion for the actions of a few loonies who have taken the Koran and *******ised it for their own ends is wrong. The net effect of this is that people will call you a racist and people will take to the streets to oppose you. You will also marginalise those innocent Muslims who are not terrorists, do not have radical views and have done nothing illegal and drive them into the arms of the extremists. You have already stated you think there are more radicals out there and I think that this is because the Radicals want a war with the west and the EDL et al are giving it to them. Moderate Muslims are being asked to pick a side in this war and it is no surprise to me that they are not taking the side of the EDL who hate them for no other reason than their religion. Where does that leave them to go?

In short the racist hatred of the EDL is doing nothing to protect the county from the radicals it is doing the polar opposite and making the problem worse by sending more recruits the radical's way.

Quote: "The fact that you decide to lump all Muslims together"
Really?.....a "fact".
So how come i have stated that i want the moderate muslims to stand up against the extremists then.......hardly "lumping" them all together. You see this is what happens when false accusations are made in order to discredit something you do not agree with.

 

[BadFish]

I live in England, i travel around in England. What happens in England affects me. You don't live in England, you live over the other side of the world. If extremists are causing trouble it will not affect you, it may your family that LIVE here, but not you.
My location, and the country i live in has a lot "to do with the debate".

I travel to the country every couple of years, I may move back in the next few years, I still consider myself English and I have family and friends in the country. What happens in the UK does effect me, as I am often asked and I will continue to take an interest in what goes on their with or without your blessing.

The debate we are having also extends it's self around the world (including the lovely Muslim lady I said a cheery hello to this morning and often looks after my kids for me) and as I mentioned the numpties of Australia have got together to form the ADL to protect us from the Islamic hoards.

Anyway, to be honest your opinion of what threads I can and can't post on matters little, I will continue to post where and when I choose. If you don't like it then I recommend the ignore button.

 

[BadFish]

Quote: "The fact that you decide to lump all Muslims together"
Really?.....a "fact".
So how come i have stated that i want the moderate muslims to stand up against the extremists then.......hardly "lumping" them all together. You see this is what happens when false accusations are made in order to discredit something you do not agree with.

You are blaming them for not standing up to extremism and complaining about them as much as the radicals. This is lumping them all together. From what I have seen of EDL demos there is little or no distinction between radical and normal Islam and indeed through the pages of this thread there is little.

If you and the EDL are making the distinction between radical Islam and normal Muslims then you are doing a very poor job of it because this is the message the rest of us are getting. Maybe a change in PR strategy is needed.

 

[daveinprague]

Looking for Sharia in Tower hamlets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3G5PYAMICg

 

[Soulman]

I travel to the country every couple of years, I may move back in the next few years, I still consider myself English and I have family and friends in the country. What happens in the UK does effect me, as I am often asked and I will continue to take an interest in what goes on their with or without your blessing.

The debate we are having also extends it's self around the world (including the lovely Muslim lady I said a cheery hello to this morning and often looks after my kids for me) and as I mentioned the numpties of Australia have got together to form the ADL to protect us from the Islamic hoards.

Anyway, to be honest your opinion of what threads I can and can't post on matters little, I will continue to post where and when I choose. If you don't like it then I recommend the ignore button.

I have never stated where and what you can post on. It is your opinion. I have stated that when you try to debate on a subject that affects the people that live here......that you do not live here. I think that is a "fact".

 

[Soulman]

If you and the EDL are making the distinction between radical Islam and normal Muslims then you are doing a very poor job of it because this is the message the rest of us are getting. Maybe a change in PR strategy is needed.

There's only two of you not getting the message. Anyway, bed now it's 22-32 in England.

 

[daveinprague]

Ok, although i would have thought after 17 pages you may have got the gist.
Right firstly the EDL have a problem with extreme muslims, which is what the thread is about.
But, your point....... As in England we have no trouble with the other religions, then why do we need/"expect the same expectations of people with other religious views".
When and IF we have the same trouble from extreme Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists etc, in this country, then i would hope/expect that the moderates of these religions would act.
Thankfully we only seem to have one lot of extremists to worry about, the resrub along nicely.

Are British planes bombing, and are drone missiles killing people, along with British troops fighting Americas war on the ground in Israel, India, Cambodia, etc, or in Islamic countries?
The reason for radicalisation is us.

 

[brighton fella]

Looking for Sharia in Tower hamlets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3G5PYAMICg[/QUOTE

what type of sad crank would waste an entire day filming absolutley nothing

 

[BadFish]

what type of sad crank would waste an entire day filming absolutley nothing

Someone who wants to highlight that the EDL spend many entire days and more complaining about nothing? Not that I would know of course I don't live in Tower Hamlets.

 

[Ex-Staffs Gull]

Are British planes bombing, and are drone missiles killing people, along with British troops fighting Americas war on the ground in Israel, India, Cambodia, etc, or in Islamic countries?
The reason for radicalisation is us.

No, the reason for radicalisation is much more complex than that. I grant you it is a push, but radicalisation was going on when I taught in Birmingham 6th form in the early 90s. They find disenfranchised people and tell them they have a solution and feed their feelings of dissatisfaction. They blame a generic target (I.e Hitler blamed the Jews, soviet union blamed Kulaks and Khmer Rouge blamed educated people). It is a common pattern, with Radical islamists blaming 'western Zionists' and right wing groups blaming immigrants first and now since 9/11 islamists. It also goes back to a deep seated hatred of 'the crusaders'