EDL in Sheffield

[Soulman]

Fair enough. the way i see it though is that Brighton Fella asked a decent question which can only really be answered by a moderate Muslim. I provided an answer to his question from a moderate Muslim. That you accuse him of body swerving and making excuses speaks volumes about your mindset on this subject IMO.

No BF, it speaks volumes of the same patter that we keep hearing over here......meanwhile it is just words. Yes it was a decent question, my mindset will change when these moderates use more than soundbites.

 

[BadFish]

No BF, it speaks volumes of the same patter that we keep hearing over here......meanwhile it is just words. Yes it was a decent question, my mindset will change when these moderates use more than soundbites.

Sounds like guilty until proven innocent to me.

What this does highlight though is the exact problem with groups like the EDL and the reason they are so often called racists. They are not interested in only addressing those who are causing the problems they are quite happy to blame others just because they share the same faith as the radicals.

Here are a list of people who share the same religious beliefs as me. http://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/

Are you saying that I am in some way responsible for their actions and should be instrumental in dealing with their crimes?

 

[Soulman]

Sounds like guilty until proven innocent to me.

What this does highlight though is the exact problem with groups like the EDL and the reason they are so often called racists. They are not interested in only addressing those who are causing the problems they are quite happy to blame others just because they share the same faith as the radicals.

Here are a list of people who share the same religious beliefs as me. http://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/

Are you saying that I am in some way responsible for their actions and should be instrumental in dealing with their crimes?

I have not heard of any problems with atheists, until they start causing the problems like the extreme muslims, then like the other religions in this country, they are no problem.

 

[Soulman]

Sounds like guilty until proven innocent to me.

Nope innocent, sometimes protecting and not doing anything worthwhile against the guilty......more like.

 

[BadFish]

I have not heard of any problems with atheists, until they start causing the problems like the extreme muslims, then like the other religions in this country, they are no problem.

I am not asking if you think that athiests as a group are causing a problem. The question I am asking is: Do you think that other groups who share religious beliefs are responsible for the wrong doings of some of their numbers or is it just Muslims?

If Muslims are expected to take responsibility for what other Muslims do (which seems to be what you are saying) Do I as an antsiest have to take responsibility for what other athiests do?

What are your religious beliefs? Do you have to take responsibility for the actions of those who share them?

 

[BadFish]

Nope innocent, sometimes protecting and not doing anything worthwhile against the guilty......more like.

So if we don't do anything about those who are guilty we too are guilty?

 

[brighton fella]

I have found an article written by Muslim which attempts to answer the question: It is American but I think the points still stand.

http://www.globalpolitician.com/print.asp?id=3422

I have quoted a couple of paragraphs which I think explain it quite well.

Americans tend to think that fighting terrorism is a black or white issue and keep saying, “either you are with us or against us”, as if moderate Muslims don’t want to help. They express resentment that moderate Muslims do not speak out or stand up to help the American government. Truth be told, any moderate Muslim who speaks up publicly against the terrorists is placing her or his life in danger. The overwhelming majority of American Muslims are like the good white people of the early 20th century who knew prejudice against blacks was wrong but couldn’t stand up to the social policies of the powerful and ignorant.

It doesn’t help that Americans indiscriminately bash Muslims and use ethnic profiling to search for terrorists.. This outdated method is alienating many Muslims who could help fight terrorism. Typical is my own experience when I, a Canadian citizen, crossed the US/Canadian border for the first time some six years ago. The border officer called me a “Muslim Terrorist.” I have done nothing but try to help the American people understand terrorism and fight alongside them to defeat it. If I were like many other Muslims, I would have simply closed my eyes and mind to the victims of 9/11 and decided that I will judge 300 million people in the United States of America based on the comments of one ignorant man, who, instead of looking at my actions, looked at the color of my skin, hair and eyes and my religion and decided, in his words, “ you could be a terrorist for all I know.”

Case in point: A mullah friend of mine who spoke against terrorism at a mosque in Vancouver, Canada received death threats from hardliners in Canada. If he had not stopped speaking up, he would have been killed.

I receive hate e-mail from radical Muslims threatening physical harm and telling me I am serving Satan and going to Hell. The government of Iran has been hacking and repeatedly shutting down my website for the past year. I have reported these threats to authorities, senators and members of parliament in Canada and the United States. No protection from any authority has been granted. When I attended BookExpo America in New York City last year, I had to have a bodyguard. These are just a few examples of my daily struggles to stay alive.

mate you can quote irrelivence until your hearts content but it still don't answer my question, we are talking about muslims in this country NOT AMERICA.
if as you say that they are frightened of going against the grain & they have no real choice other than to join up with the radical muslims or edl then you are very much mistaken. incodently a few have joined up with the edl and are very much accepted within its ranks but that's besides the point, they have had plenty of opportunitys in the past of forming up groups of their own against radicalisation but have simply chose not to, their own muslim governing body spokesmen would have been a good enough start for them.. or is he/ they also frightened that they cant find it within themselves to form a group of their own. frightened.. my arse! ive seen untold amounts at a drop of a hat for rallys over nothing in the past, muslims aint exactly a race shy in coming forward when airing their views are concerned.. yet when it comes to opposing terrorism they choose to keep shstumm . wonder why??
im sure if I was worried about being victimised by a nation because of a low percentage of crank pot radicals i'd do something about it.

 

[BadFish]

mate you can quote irrelivence until your hearts content but it still don't answer my question, we are talking about muslims in this country NOT AMERICA.
if as you say that they are frightened of going against the grain & they have no real choice other than to join up with the radical muslims or edl then you are very much mistaken. incodently a few have joined up with the edl and are very much accepted within its ranks but that's besides the point, they have had plenty of opportunitys in the past of forming up groups of their own against radicalisation but have simply chose not to, their own muslim governing body spokesmen would have been a good enough start for them.. or is he/ they also frightened that they cant find it within themselves to form a group of their own. frightened.. my arse! ive seen untold amounts at a drop of a hat for rallys over nothing in the past, muslims aint exactly a race shy in coming forward when airing their views are concerned.. yet when it comes to opposing terrorism they choose to keep shstumm . wonder why??
im sure if I was worried about being victimised by a nation because of a low percentage of crank pot radicals i'd do something about it.

The text is a Muslim answering your question about why moderate Muslims don't actively oppose radical Islam. I would say this is entirely relevant to the question being asked.

yet when it comes to opposing terrorism they choose to keep shstumm . wonder why??

Like I say I have read an interesting blog post from a Muslim about why this is and I for one believe it, it makes perfect sense to me and rings true with my experience.

Perhaps you could tell me why you think they keep quiet?

 

[brighton fella]

The text is a Muslim answering your question about why moderate Muslims don't actively oppose radical Islam. I would say this is entirely relevant to the question being asked.


Like I say I have read an interesting blog post from a Muslim about why this is and I for one believe it, it makes perfect sense to me and rings true with my experience.

Perhaps you could tell me why you think they keep quiet?

don't you think the edl haven't experienced death threats of their own in the past from extremists.
if you oppose something that you feel that sincere about death threats unfortunately come part of the parcel. its a question of how much you realy want it I suppose. & the edl in the past have proved in abundant that they want it .....but have the muslims? again I think not because of this reason.
days after the 7/7 attack the muslim councilling body announced that it was time that we all stuck together in the fight against terrorism, they spoke up volumes and fair play to them for their courage in speaking out.. but we havent seen or heard anything from them since. but what we have seen is more & more radicals being churned out.
blaming the media is a feeble exuse by anyones standard because todays media would bend over backwards to help out a muslim back lash of any kind unlike the unfair treatment they give to the edl, but again you quote a problem that' has occured thousands of miles away in America which has no relevance whatsoever to this country, who's establishment operate in an entirely different manner to that of our own.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

don't you think the edl haven't experienced death threats of their own in the past from extremists.
if you oppose something that you feel that sincere about death threats unfortunately come part of the parcel. its a question of how much you realy want it I suppose. & the edl in the past have proved in abundant that they want it .....but have the muslims? again I think not because of this reason.
days after the 7/7 attack the muslim councilling body announced that it was time that we all stuck together in the fight against terrorism, they spoke up volumes and fair play to them for their courage in speaking out.. but we havent seen or heard anything from them since. but what we have seen is more & more radicals being churned out.
blaming the media is a feeble exuse by anyones standard because todays media would bend over backwards to help out a muslim back lash of any kind unlike the unfair treatment they give to the edl, but again you quote a problem that' has occured thousands of miles away in America which has no relevance whatsoever to this country, who's establishment operate in an entirely different manner to that of our own.

i wouldn't bother mate, BADFISH ANOTHER ONE THAT DOESN'T LIVE HERE BUT LIKES TO MAKE HIMSELF HEARD
regards
DR

 

[daveinprague]

Keep talking badfish, most of the people on the thread are from the mouthy minority, as reflected in British elections.

 

[Soulman]

So if we don't do anything about those who are guilty we too are guilty?

You are the one quoting innocent and guilty not me. I merely stated that the soundbites from the moderates are tiresome now, as are the excuses that the very small minority of extremists in this country scare the vast majority of moderates.
Many of these moderates know what is going on....it just takes a few anonymous calls to weed out the extremists, so no real excuse, or are the moderates really that upset.

 

[Soulman]

Keep talking badfish, most of the people on the thread are from the mouthy minority, as reflected in British elections.

How is it reflected in British elections. I reckon that one of the reasons that the Tories were voted in was because they said they would be harder on extremists, so many voted for them.
Not up to scratch yet but at least they got shot of Hamza and Qatada, something the Labour government in their 13 years failed to do.

 

[daveinprague]

So, the need for a group of neo nazi, racist, violent, career criminals is?
Come on man, nobody wants Islamic extremists, not you, not me, not muslims.
You know, and if say you dont, I wont believe you, that the EDL is a group of violent
criminals, with a strong element of Nazis.....I say Nazis,with some conviction
as this is how the ex leader Tommy Robinson has called them....

Their Official page is a lie...the regional pages, and the comments of the people
who attend these drunkfests is the truth, and those comments dont talk politics.
It is illiterate chavs wanting to fight somebody, and using Islam as an excuse to do it.
.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

So, the need for a group of neo nazi, racist, violent, career criminals is?

along the same lines as the soap dodging lefty rent a mob
regards
DR

 

[daveinprague]

Lefties are soap dodgers? I would place my personal hygiene above yours frankly. EDL drunkfests smell of urine.

No violent, racist, criminals on the streets, looking for a fight, and nobody will be opposing them.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

lefties are soap dodgers? I would place my personal hygiene above yours frankly. Edl drunkfests smell of urine.

No violent, racist, criminals on the streets, looking for a fight, and nobody will be opposing them.

that's just an excuse, they'll go and find something else to disrupt you know that
regards
DR

 

[Soulman]

So, the need for a group of neo nazi, racist, violent, career criminals is?
Come on man, nobody wants Islamic extremists, not you, not me, not muslims.
You know, and if say you dont, I wont believe you, that the EDL is a group of violent
criminals, with a strong element of Nazis.....I say Nazis,with some conviction
as this is how the ex leader Tommy Robinson has called them....

Their Official page is a lie...the regional pages, and the comments of the people
who attend these drunkfests is the truth, and those comments dont talk politics.
It is illiterate chavs wanting to fight somebody, and using Islam as an excuse to do it.
.

Quote: "nobody wants Islamic extremists, not you, not me, not muslims."
Yep, correct. So how about the UAF and moderate Muslims protest against the extremists when they take to the streets, that and the government showing a pair would see the end of the EDL.

 

[daveinprague]

EDL is finished anyway tbh

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

EDL is finished anyway tbh

AS I SAID DAVE WHOSE NEXT ON THE RENT A MOBS HIT LIST ?
regards
DR