[Politics] Dominic Cummings v H&SC and S&T select committees *Official Match Thread*

[Bodian]

What do I think the disaster plan should look like? Why do you think I should have any view on that whatsoever? No nobody has proven anything to anyone by posting links of newspaper articles and the like. I watched it and DC clearly alleged that when the disaster plan was asked for, there wasn't a working one and they had to start from scratch. Watch it yourself. Don't read articles, or listen to commentary (opinions of others) go to the primary source (which I did as I watched it live) and make your own mind up. Either way, can we agree that if there was not a working disaster plan then planks at the civil service need walking? Or do I need to have drafted one before you think I can form that opinion? What an utterly daft debate.

If you 'don't click on links', then it would be pointless me posting a link to the video of Cummings actually giving the evidence that you allege you heard in the background whilst working, but didn't - because he didn't actually say what you say he said - but you won't be able to hear what he did actually say, because you won't click on any links.

I think we should just leave it there, don't you?

 

[Baker lite]

Great post

I still argue that Starmer is better than Corbyn but he's still going to have to live with a number of Corbynista / Momentum favourites, ironically because of the thing that Brexiteers accuse Labour of not respecting - democracy. All the time he's got one eye on his internal machinations he's not fully on the ball taking Johnson and Hancock to bits like he should be, at this precise moment.

But the other stuff in your post is exactly what I argued for on one of the May election threads. Labour has to stop telling people what to think and start finding people who will find a way to persuasively show working people they'll be better off with social democracy than Brexit. How you do that without Unions, strong working class party membership and party unity I have no idea.

The alternative is to leave the former red wall to its fate and start to court more middle class social liberals. There was a swing to Labour in Worthing in the local election and they're still incredibly popular in the big cities. I'm not sure there'll be enough seats in that though, even if there's enough popular vote.

Clapham or Clacton? Worthing or Workington? It's a dilemma.

Rabid anti semitism and grovelling on bended knee for thugs that desecrate war memorials probably has not helped the Labour Party.
I just want a credible opposition that will hold this blasted Government to account [emoji2371]You’re right though,there does seem to be an upsurge in anti semitism within the socially middle class Liberals, just look at the anti Jewish rallies in London last week....you could smell the quinoa for miles around.


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[Hugo Rune]

Rabid anti semitism and grovelling on bended knee for thugs that desecrate war memorials probably has not helped the Labour

Q1: Which Conservative minister recently defended the right of Holocaust deniers to speak at Universities?

 

[Deleted member 2719]

...and another thought crosses your mind....

Careful - any more thoughts and it'll be a severe case of over congestion.

Don't forget to use spell check if you decide to reply....

Predictable


https://youtu.be/liQB7ZycEOg

 

[Baker lite]

Q1: Which Conservative minister recently defended the right of Holocaust deniers to speak at Universities?

You may have to ask someone that has a passing interest in the parliamentary Conservative party....I would not vote for them ***** all the time I have a hole in my arse.


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[Hugo Rune]

just look at the anti Jewish rallies in London last week....you could smell the quinoa for miles around.

Q2: Which Prime Minister recently hosted the profoundly anti-Semite Victor Orbàn at 10 Downing Street? (Think I might have given it away there).

“In the 2017 parliamentary election, Orbán promoted anti-Semitic imagery of powerful Jewish financiers scheming to control the world. Thousands of posters of a grinning Soros with the slogan “Let’s not allow Soros to have the last laugh!” were posted around the country on billboards,.......... As the Hungarian leader steps up his embrace of anti-Semitic imagery, the country’s Jews are becoming more and more uncomfortable. András Heisler, leader of the Jewish community in Hungary, personally appealed to Orbán to end the Soros poster campaign.”

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Q2: Which Prime Minister recently hosted the profoundly anti-Semite Victor Orbàn at 10 Downing Street? (Think I might have given it away there).

“In the 2017 parliamentary election, Orbán promoted anti-Semitic imagery of powerful Jewish financiers scheming to control the world. Thousands of posters of a grinning Soros with the slogan “Let’s not allow Soros to have the last laugh!” were posted around the country on billboards,.......... As the Hungarian leader steps up his embrace of anti-Semitic imagery, the country’s Jews are becoming more and more uncomfortable. András Heisler, leader of the Jewish community in Hungary, personally appealed to Orbán to end the Soros poster campaign.”

Appalling. Any country or organization that has hosted Victor Orban or his ministers at any functions or meetings deserves censure. That would include most of Western Europe, the EU and as you rightly say our Government in the UK. None of that should prevent the Labour Party from getting its house in order.

 

[Hugo Rune]

None of that should prevent the Labour Party from getting its house in order.

Indeed. Quite why Corbyn hasn’t been expelled from the Labour Party as well as having the whip removed from the parliamentary Labour Party is beyond me. That would send a very clear message to the anti-semites who have gained influence in the party.

 

[GT49er]

Q2: Which Prime Minister recently hosted the profoundly anti-Semite Victor Orbàn at 10 Downing Street? (Think I might have given it away there).

“In the 2017 parliamentary election, Orbán promoted anti-Semitic imagery of powerful Jewish financiers scheming to control the world. Thousands of posters of a grinning Soros with the slogan “Let’s not allow Soros to have the last laugh!” were posted around the country on billboards,.......... As the Hungarian leader steps up his embrace of anti-Semitic imagery, the country’s Jews are becoming more and more uncomfortable. András Heisler, leader of the Jewish community in Hungary, personally appealed to Orbán to end the Soros poster campaign.”

You seem to be missing a crucial point. Not defending anti-semitism (it is a form of racism and therefore by definition despicable) and I know next to nothing about Orban or his politics - but it is one of the things that governments have to do, meet with other leaders they find reprehensible.
Putin's been here; Trump had a Royal visit; Mugabe was here; Pinochet was given a VIP welcome -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/200829.stm
and PM Thatcher even sent him best Scotch whisky after we (quite rightly) put him under house arrest -
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/04/margaret-thatcher-pinochet-chile-scotch-malt-whisky

It's called diplomacy - you are calling out one example. Yes, it stinks, but so does a lot of diplomacy. Is Boris more a friend of thoroughly nasty world leaders than Margaret Thatcher? Os Orban any worse than Trump? You tell me.

But of course, this is Boris, not Maggie sucking up to the loathsome Pinochet, nor is it Blair or Cameron welcoming Putin - but for some it's Boris, the devil incarnate, isn't it (and I'm no fan, just not signed up to the seemingly compulsory 'worse than anything else we've ever had' trope. Yeh, he's not great by a long way; just that - he's not great by a long way).
Neither is Orban (or Trump, or Putin, or Mugabe, or Pinochet) - in fact, TBH, I'd put all of those as closer to the devil incarnate than Boris Johnson.

 

[GT49er]

..... or get your head around these .................

https://news.sky.com/story/five-controversial-state-visits-to-the-uk-10748635

 

[Guinness Boy]

Rabid anti semitism and grovelling on bended knee for thugs that desecrate war memorials probably has not helped the Labour Party.
I just want a credible opposition that will hold this blasted Government to account [emoji2371]You’re right though,there does seem to be an upsurge in anti semitism within the socially middle class Liberals, just look at the anti Jewish rallies in London last week....you could smell the quinoa for miles around.


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You were there? Doesn't sound much like your scene.

 

[Lever]

Predictable


https://youtu.be/liQB7ZycEOg

Oops and there's another brain burp from the nonpareil of unfounded drivel!

Mildewed Waders, if you keep to the thread topic instead of directing silly personal comments at me, it would be a much better exchange...

But you seem incapable of learning that starting with a pointless insult does not end well......

Have another go and keep to the point rather than trying to make daft comments about me or the way a politician you dislike looks.

Most people live and learn, but you just seem to live.

 

[Baker lite]

You were there? Doesn't sound much like your scene.

I was working at Golders Green Underground depot when the far left extremists came in convoy down the down the High Street,spouting their anti Jewish bile, very disturbing, I thought this was 2021,not 1939.


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[Chicken Run]

Dominic Cummings v H&SC and S&T select committees *Official Match Thread*

Come on chaps let’s play nicely and avoid trying to reignite old Bear Pit arguments.

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[Baker lite]

Come on chaps let’s play nicely and avoid trying to reignite old Bear Pit arguments.

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Indeed..
Group hug?..

 

[Chicken Run]

Indeed..
Group hug?..

Curry night?


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[Baker lite]

Curry night?


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Stop it [emoji23]


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[WATFORD zero]

And back on topic

I thought it unlikely that Cummings would have given all the info he had to the select committee and, as quite a few said at the time, was always likely to have documentary evidence.

Cummings 'smoking gun': Former aide 'has documents showing that Matt Hancock was summoned by PM to be asked if had misled No 10 and whether Health Minister's NEGLIGENCE killed people in care homes'

Matt Hancock is facing fresh pressure today amid claims Dominic Cummings has documents showing the PM feared he had been 'misled' over Covid testing for care homes at the height of the pandemic. The Health Secretary has been desperately trying to fend off allegations from Dominic Cummings that he 'lied' to Boris Johnson in March last year about whether residents would be screened on leaving hospital.

After days of dodging, Mr Hancock finally addressed the issue directly last night, insisting his 'recollection' was he had only promised to 'build testing capacity' so that the checks could be carried out. But there are reports today that Mr Cummings has a document from May last year indicating alarm in Downing Street that Mr Hancock's 'negligence' had 'killed people in care homes'.

No10 officials asked for information from the Department of Health to understand what had gone wrong, according to ITV News. The latest claims will heap further pressure on Mr Hancock, despite the PM trying to shore him up overnight by issuing a statement saying he had 'full confidence' in his senior minister.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9628561/Dominic-Cummings-document-Hancocks-care-home-pledge.html

 

[Chicken Run]

And back on topic

I thought it unlikely that Cummings would have given all the info he had to the select committee and, as quite a few said at the time, was always likely to have documentary evidence.

Cummings 'smoking gun': Former aide 'has documents showing that Matt Hancock was summoned by PM to be asked if had misled No 10 and whether Health Minister's NEGLIGENCE killed people in care homes'

Matt Hancock is facing fresh pressure today amid claims Dominic Cummings has documents showing the PM feared he had been 'misled' over Covid testing for care homes at the height of the pandemic. The Health Secretary has been desperately trying to fend off allegations from Dominic Cummings that he 'lied' to Boris Johnson in March last year about whether residents would be screened on leaving hospital.

After days of dodging, Mr Hancock finally addressed the issue directly last night, insisting his 'recollection' was he had only promised to 'build testing capacity' so that the checks could be carried out. But there are reports today that Mr Cummings has a document from May last year indicating alarm in Downing Street that Mr Hancock's 'negligence' had 'killed people in care homes'.

No10 officials asked for information from the Department of Health to understand what had gone wrong, according to ITV News. The latest claims will heap further pressure on Mr Hancock, despite the PM trying to shore him up overnight by issuing a statement saying he had 'full confidence' in his senior minister.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9628561/Dominic-Cummings-document-Hancocks-care-home-pledge.html

Ahh the old “full confidence “ comment, Hancock’s days are numbered.

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[vegster]

And back on topic

I thought it unlikely that Cummings would have given all the info he had to the select committee and, as quite a few said at the time, was always likely to have documentary evidence.

Cummings 'smoking gun': Former aide 'has documents showing that Matt Hancock was summoned by PM to be asked if had misled No 10 and whether Health Minister's NEGLIGENCE killed people in care homes'

Matt Hancock is facing fresh pressure today amid claims Dominic Cummings has documents showing the PM feared he had been 'misled' over Covid testing for care homes at the height of the pandemic. The Health Secretary has been desperately trying to fend off allegations from Dominic Cummings that he 'lied' to Boris Johnson in March last year about whether residents would be screened on leaving hospital.

After days of dodging, Mr Hancock finally addressed the issue directly last night, insisting his 'recollection' was he had only promised to 'build testing capacity' so that the checks could be carried out. But there are reports today that Mr Cummings has a document from May last year indicating alarm in Downing Street that Mr Hancock's 'negligence' had 'killed people in care homes'.

No10 officials asked for information from the Department of Health to understand what had gone wrong, according to ITV News. The latest claims will heap further pressure on Mr Hancock, despite the PM trying to shore him up overnight by issuing a statement saying he had 'full confidence' in his senior minister.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9628561/Dominic-Cummings-document-Hancocks-care-home-pledge.html

I listened live to the Covid press conference where Hancock was grilled by the press regarding his promise to test everyone discharged from hospital to care homes,and, any and everyone who worked in Healthcare who wanted a test to be confident that they were not infected.

Asked about 5 times he simply avoided answering instead just puffing his " I had to build testing capacity first " response. So, simply put, he did lie at the time and this was known in Cabinet and by care home staff and operators.
It's really not a surprise that Cummings has the evidence to scuttle Hancock and probably others at the heart if government up to and including the Prime Minstrel.

We should add to this the huge levels of sleaze, incompetence and bare faced corruption across not just the handling of Covid but also Windrush, the Hostile Environment, the Cameron Greensill scandal and the NI Protocol ineptitude and there Johnson,with all his personal scandals, at the heart of this Web.

A man who has no apparent interest in who pays his bills, just expects " something to turn up ".... What have we become as a country?