[Politics] Dominic Cummings v H&SC and S&T select committees *Official Match Thread*

[highflyer]

Stunned that people are just blithely dismissing the revelations yesterday. The charges are serious and despite the mixed motivations of Dominic Cummings should be treated as such.

1. Having run down the NHS with a decade of austerity and ignoring the findings of Operation Cygnus this government left us woefully unprepared for a pandemic which had topped the list of threats to this country.

2. When the pandemic did actually hit, it turns out we had no effing idea what to do and thought that letting everyone getting it was an ideal solution despite the evidence that we had from mainland Europe that this would be a disaster. You can share the blame around for this one but still all who were involved are stained with its failure, including Cummings.

3. Once the severity of the situation became clear, the response was woefully inadequate. The hospitals did not have enough PPE, care home residents were basically sent to their deaths, and dithering meant that we lock downed way too late because the PM (in a state of denial about the seriousness of this) lacked the balls and intelligence to do it.

4. Once in lockdown, we failed to learn from other countries who had successfully implemented test, track and tracing systems and introduced a botched version of our own which is still failing to this day. We failed to secure our borders and allowed travel from countries that were riddled with covid, a policy that has only marginally been reversed a whole flipping YEAR later. Even then we held the door open for the Indian variant.

5. Moving swiftly on to the autumn/winter period. Despite having the full knowledge and experience of the spring debacle we then moved on to the complacent let's reheat the economy and stuff the people phase. Interesting that Cummings failed to criticise Sunak (maybe wants another job the slimy old f*ck). Still we moved on to the spreader event that was eat out to help out, and then most criminally the end of year wave that was to prove the most deadly phase of the pandemic. By September we had all the information to hand about how the virus worked, the PM himself had first hand experience of terrible the disease was, yet the cavalier attitude of we won't lockdown only the oldies die prevailed. The government fought against the tide for a few deadly weeks but eventually we found ourselves in the longest and harshest lockdown yet, and yes Boris the 'bodies did indeed pile up.'

I have barely even scratched the surface of everything that government and the PM in particular got wrong in this pandemic. We did not need Dominic Cummings to tell us all this. It is all there in the public record and had been uncovered by a handful of excellent journalists such as those on the Sunday Times Insight team.

That said to finally hear from someone in the room was important as it adds weight to the growing pile of evidence proving the weakness of our institutions and the negligence of this PM, Sec of State and government in particular.

The government has handled this pandemic badly. At every turn where there was a decision to be made they initially made the wrong one. The result of which many thousands of people died who need not have. Anyone who claims to be 'bored' by this quite frankly has my complete and utter contempt.

I think you nail it when you say 'we did not need Dominic Cummings to tell us all this'. I am struggling to find anything he said that was not already well known.
You can add that Carrie Symonds is a self obsessed snob and Cummungs himself is a nasty, vengeful piece of work. But again - aleady very clear to anyone paying attention.

Thus this is a sideshow that will have little impact.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Ultimately he doesn't really believe in much - his biggest gift is convincing the masses that he does

Some would say his only gift, but, what a gift!

The same power works on women apparently too which is impossible to surmise just by looking at the ****.

Whilst the country as a whole does not deserve a man like this being in charge, those who fell for his charm and voted for him and still support him certainly do; not that they seem to care one iota about the thousands and thousands of extra deaths his utter incompetence has resulted in.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Huh? We never sent the Eu 350 million pounds a week and the guy who came up with the slogan admits it was just a 'ploy' and here you are still arguing over it?

Err...you are the one who brought it up. Let me be clearer; the important part of that story to you was the figure 350m. The important part of that story to me was paying any amount to belong to the EU when the alternative was giving the electorate the choice to vote in a platform of their choice. I am not arguing about it just pointing out that you are unable to see or acknowledge this differing point of view. You think that incessant sniping about the character of those involved in the Vote Leave Campaign means you are right about the issue. Well, I didn’t care much for the characters involved then and I don’t now. My views are not connected to what politicians are saying. For you though it is personal which is why Cummings’ testimony should be troubling for you. He’s a liar, isn’t he ? That you do not find it troubling is worthy of comment on this thread.

 

[lawros left foot]

I just find this all utterly depressing.

Cummings hasn’t really revealed anything we didn’t suspect, he’s just confirmed a lot of it. If he has lied in this case , why has no one called him a liar? What has happened to this country, when a Prime Minister can be accused of such incompetence that his senior advisers didn’t allow him to take part in meetings due to lack of focus.
Why is our much lauded ‘free press’ not busting a gut to to either confirm or deny Cummings allegations?
Why is a Minister who is accused of multiple provable lies in Cabinet, and , I imagine, in the HOC still in a job.

Thatchers downfall was precipitated by Howes resignation speech in the Commons, that would never happen now,because as a nation we have become so supine to the lies, and corruption that appear to be the norm now, backed by a media complicit in it, and an opposition that is a sad joke.

Nothing will happen over this, and I for one feel unutterable sad at the country we have become.

 

[Hotchilidog]

I just find this all utterly depressing.

Cummings hasn’t really revealed anything we didn’t suspect, he’s just confirmed a lot of it. If he has lied in this case , why has no one called him a liar? What has happened to this country, when a Prime Minister can be accused of such incompetence that his senior advisers didn’t allow him to take part in meetings due to lack of focus.
Why is our much lauded ‘free press’ not busting a gut to to either confirm or deny Cummings allegations?
Why is a Minister who is accused of multiple provable lies in Cabinet, and , I imagine, in the HOC still in a job.

Thatchers downfall was precipitated by Howes resignation speech in the Commons, that would never happen now,because as a nation we have become so supine to the lies, and corruption that appear to be the norm now, backed by a media complicit in it, and an opposition that is a sad joke.

Nothing will happen over this, and I for one feel unutterable sad at the country we have become.

Sadly, I agree with every word. Our body politic is absolutely riddled with disease from the inside out.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I just find this all utterly depressing.

Cummings hasn’t really revealed anything we didn’t suspect, he’s just confirmed a lot of it. If he has lied in this case , why has no one called him a liar? What has happened to this country, when a Prime Minister can be accused of such incompetence that his senior advisers didn’t allow him to take part in meetings due to lack of focus.
Why is our much lauded ‘free press’ not busting a gut to to either confirm or deny Cummings allegations?
Why is a Minister who is accused of multiple provable lies in Cabinet, and , I imagine, in the HOC still in a job.

Thatchers downfall was precipitated by Howes resignation speech in the Commons, that would never happen now,because as a nation we have become so supine to the lies, and corruption that appear to be the norm now, backed by a media complicit in it, and an opposition that is a sad joke.

Nothing will happen over this, and I for one feel unutterable sad at the country we have become.

I don’t know if what you are saying is true. If it is, perhaps you have to face the fact that crying wolf over every issue at every opportunity may have delivered us to this place. There are so many accusations of corruption used to discredit differing viewpoints that perhaps the public isn’t listening anymore. You and others on this thread may have only yourselves to blame.

 

[lawros left foot]

I don’t know if what you are saying is true. If it is, perhaps you have to face the fact that crying wolf over every issue at every opportunity may have delivered us to this place.

What part do you not know is true?

That I find this country so naive in the face of blatant lies they’re not even called out anymore, or that we have a Prime Minister so inept he is setting new standards, or a Health Minister accused of telling , what should be , easily disproved lies?

 

[pb21]

Government stooge on the media this morning saying they all tried as best they could, with the best of intentions.

Thing is you could say the same thing about a 5-year old trying their best in the same situation.

You don't just want people doing their best, you want competent people doing their best. Cummings accusation is that the people in charge are far from competent.

 

[vegster]

I just find this all utterly depressing.

Cummings hasn’t really revealed anything we didn’t suspect, he’s just confirmed a lot of it. If he has lied in this case , why has no one called him a liar? What has happened to this country, when a Prime Minister can be accused of such incompetence that his senior advisers didn’t allow him to take part in meetings due to lack of focus.
Why is our much lauded ‘free press’ not busting a gut to to either confirm or deny Cummings allegations?
Why is a Minister who is accused of multiple provable lies in Cabinet, and , I imagine, in the HOC still in a job.

Thatchers downfall was precipitated by Howes resignation speech in the Commons, that would never happen now,because as a nation we have become so supine to the lies, and corruption that appear to be the norm now, backed by a media complicit in it, and an opposition that is a sad joke.

Nothing will happen over this, and I for one feel unutterable sad at the country we have become.

This!

There is no such thing as truth and honesty anymore at the highest levels of government. Cummings diatribe has confirmed that " our" government is not fit for purpose but we are stuck with them as they aren't going anywhere.

 

[Klaas]

Err...you are the one who brought it up. Let me be clearer; the important part of that story to you was the figure 350m. The important part of that story to me was paying any amount to belong to the EU when the alternative was giving the electorate the choice to vote in a platform of their choice. I am not arguing about it just pointing out that you are unable to see or acknowledge this differing point of view. You think that incessant sniping about the character of those involved in the Vote Leave Campaign means you are right about the issue. Well, I didn’t care much for the characters involved then and I don’t now. My views are not connected to what politicians are saying. For you though it is personal which is why Cummings’ testimony should be troubling for you. He’s a liar, isn’t he ? That you do not find it troubling is worthy of comment on this thread.

Wow, you're really stretching here.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

What part do you not know is true?

That I find this country so naive in the face of blatant lies they’re not even called out anymore, or that we have a Prime Minister so inept he is setting new standards, or a Health Minister accused of telling , what should be , easily disproved lies?

I thought the gist of what you were saying is that the public doesn’t care about accusations of lies and corruption. I am just speculating that the accusers may have brought it on themselves ie the public may trust those people even less than they do the Government. Ironic really.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

NSC is lucky to have a neutral such as yourself to give a balanced view when the two extremes start bickering

I’m not a neutral on the issue, as you know
Perhaps where I differ is that I prefer the issue to the personality.

 

[Robinjakarta]

What is certain is that Johnson & Hancock are liars, ...

And Cummings. This lot make Richard Nixon come across as a man of integrity.

 

[The Clamp]

The idiots won. A long, long, long time ago. The world was theirs for the taking. They took it. It’s over. We are ruled by lying, self serving, money men. It’s not changing anytime soon.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Dominic Cummings v H&SC and S&T select committees *Official Match Thread*

And Cummings. This lot make Richard Nixon come across as a man of integrity.

Cummings is smarter than that pair though. He lies when it’s best for him and tells the truth when it’s best for him. Johnson & Hancock have lied so much that I honestly doubt whether they know when they are lying or not lying. Cummings is profoundly strategic (and evil) and knows that the power of truth is more destructive than lies when confronting your enemies. He may well have told a number of lies yesterday but for the most part, his evidence (under oath) was just corroborating what most people believed anyway.

 

[Chicken Run]

I can’t see one post on here ‘leaping to Boris’ defence. Plenty pointing out the hypocrisy of various NSC posters which is quite different. Your interpretation is such a mangling of the facts that I am beginning to wonder whether all this stuff about lying is just some sort of deflection, with people seeing their own characteristics in politicians.

This, too many hypocrites and they can’t see it!


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[Chicken Run]

Huh? We never sent the Eu 350 million pounds a week and the guy who came up with the slogan admits it was just a 'ploy' and here you are still arguing over it?

Huh?


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[Chicken Run]

Dominic Cummings v H&SC and S&T select committees *Official Match Thread*

My bingo card is nearly full [emoji106]

Lots of pent up angst with a huge backlog of tweets and vids waiting to be unleashed since the Bear pit closure



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Well at least Nob has a thread he can participate in [emoji23]


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[lawros left foot]

I thought the gist of what you were saying is that the public doesn’t care about accusations of lies and corruption. I am just speculating that the accusers may have brought it on themselves ie the public may trust those people even less than they do the Government. Ironic really.

So you would blame those asking the hard questions?

A lot of the allegations made against the Government are provable, and indeed unprovable, if the media who, let’s not forget, laud themselves as bastions of free speech,had the will to investigate. They don’t, because the current relationship between Government and the media ins incestuous. I don’t entirely blame the Tories for this, Blair started it with his dependence on spin. This current bunch have taken it to new heights though.
There are too many instances of dubious conduct at the moment to be a case of one bad apple, etc.

I do fear for our future,this whole culture of corruption and sleaze is beginning to have the stench of the Weimar Republic, Czarist Russia, and Louis xvi France.

I bet there were people who thought everything was fine in those regimes, too.


Anyway, you won everything, enjoy it.

 

[wellquickwoody]

What part do you not know is true?

That I find this country so naive in the face of blatant lies they’re not even called out anymore, or that we have a Prime Minister so inept he is setting new standards, or a Health Minister accused of telling , what should be , easily disproved lies?

The tit for tat answer is as follows, ‘Which part do you KNOW IS TRUE?’. That is how poor politics the world over has become.

The ‘bodies piled in the street before a third lockdown’ comment I think is unsurprising in a private conversation, hasn’t actually happened though. Having the virus injected on TV was never actually going to happen now was it? Private conversations should not always be judged in a public sense.

Political debate should be reasoned and thought out, not just reactionary and headline grabbing.