Disabled Parking

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

The club has decided to prioritise staff/press/VIP parking (608 spaces) and 1901 club members (650 spaces) over disabled spaces (46, including 4 for away fans, so 42).

Are these the numbers? Then they're pretty damning.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Are these the numbers? Then they're pretty damning.

It would appear from the FAQs that there are 400 parking spaces available on Saturdays at Sussex University that the Club aren't selling:-

Information on the Sussex University website states that there are 1,100 pre-bookable spaces available for daytime matches and 700 for evening games. How will the shortfall be met for evening games? If there is no alternative location, how will the club continue to comply with the conditions of the planning consent?
At the moment it isn't - hence the fact we can only sell 700.

Answers to NSC's Amex travel questions
Brighton and Hove Albion | News | Latest News | Latest News | Amex Travel FAQs

... which begs these questions:-

If the Club are content to be in breach of the planning conditions by not making available 400 spaces, why are they selling ALL 700 that they do have available to people prepared to pay full price? Why not make some of those 700 spaces available to disabled users? Or shift some of the Bennetts Field parkers to the University and free up more space in Bennetts Field for more disabled users?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I have no arguement.

The disabled were promised parking, where?

Wrong term, your post does not hold.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I have no arguement.

The disabled were promised parking, where?

Whether or not they were promised a particular location, disabled people are ENTITLED to have access to parking, on the terms that they were promised. And promises were made when season tickets were sold.

The Club MUST fulfil its earlier promises.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

With American Express's stadium sponsorship essentially being linked to the Albion in the Community activities, social inclusion programmes being mentioned in particular, I just wonder how they might now feel at being publicly/commercially linked with the Albion. Perhaps drawing this issue to their direct attention is something for tomorrow morning?

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

I know exactly what point you were trying to make in the post that I quoted. On that point you were mistaken.

You are trying to pin the blame on 1901 members taking advantage of parking spaces offered. How many corporate types travel by public transport? Not many! So therefore the club in order to attract money to the club have to offer facilities that people will PAY for. That money helps to subsidise carers FREE tickets in order to help the disabled person where help is needed.

Now, the club may have made promises that they have broken, that is between you and the club, it's nothing at all to do with the 1901 members.

For the record I will be on the bus, 1901 but not corporate.

But if there arn't the spaces for disabled with carers, they wont have to subsidise FREE tickets will they

 

[British Bulldog]

I have no arguement.

The disabled were promised parking, where?

I was told I would be given a free pass to park at the ground, I was advised it may have to be in a car park that was over a new bridge of some sort but it would still offer easy access and details would be sent to me along with my season ticket.

 

[libra-gully]

If you still have a copy of that email, please be sure to send it to Trading Standards - we have already notified them of the club's misleading wording regarding the general park and ride ie. the words "Free Park and Ride Buses" appears in the literature issued with our season tickets, as well as in a recent article in the Argus and on the club's own website!!? When we phoned to book the vouchers we were then told cost would be £30 each - in other words not free!! Trading Standards were most interested as they obviously will be to hear of the shambolic way in which they are now treating disabled fans.
One other point - having (under protest) bought three books this week, we now learn that the pensioner in our party can actually use their bus pass on the park and ride buses, and should not have been charged. Why weren't we told this!!?? and how many other people have not been informed of this?! We only learnt of it from family friends who have had similar experience.

We can't get to the forum ourselves, but implore those that do to make sure the club realises the huge level of disappointment spreading throughout its fans.

18 months ago we needed disabled parking at Withdean so fully appreciate the importance of that issue. Here's hoping the club see the light and do the right thing. (We won't hold our breath though!)

Sadly, my personal opinion is that us 'genuine' hard core fans, are being fleeced left, right and centre right now. Be it disabled bays, travel vouchers, £50 one off shirts. Yes we are complaining Mr Naylor for two very good reasons.

1. There are too many stories on here of people being told one thing (free bays, travel vouchers) and now at the last minute when we have no other option, we are being told there is a cost involved, sometimes a large cost.

2. The actual cost of these various "policy Decisions" are mounting up. The average Albion fan of the past ten years has already shelled out substantial monies, and here we are again being absolutely fleeced. That is a strong word and accusation but is fact.

What is really annoying is that those in charge are fully aware of the growing disgruntlement, but seem prepared to last it out, hoping that the bright gem amongst the students will make us forget our decreasing bank balances.

Aaaarrrggghhh!!!!!!!

 

[libra-gully]

I know exactly what point you were trying to make in the post that I quoted. On that point you were mistaken.

You are trying to pin the blame on 1901 members taking advantage of parking spaces offered. How many corporate types travel by public transport? Not many! So therefore the club in order to attract money to the club have to offer facilities that people will PAY for. That money helps to subsidise carers FREE tickets in order to help the disabled person where help is needed.

Now, the club may have made promises that they have broken, that is between you and the club, it's nothing at all to do with the 1901 members.

For the record I will be on the bus, 1901 but not corporate.

No, No, No, No.!!!

First of all, we don't blame each other whatever section we are in. This is a BOARD policy decision. The BOARD are the only ones to feel any heat on this.

As probably one of the most vocal on this, we have to respect that those in 1901 have paid an absolute shed full for their seats. Yes, some came with car park spaces, but by no means all. In fact as clipped points out, a virtually all if not all of the East Stand extension got none at all.

The prinicpal here is that the blueprint at the outset said a certain number of 1901's would get bays with their seats. I went to a 1901 presentation so I know what was said. In the same blueprint the club was to provide disabled bays free of charge.

It is the BOARD that have changed the rules that have caused this issue, not any of the 1901s. As has been said a thousand times now, it is the BOARD that have sanctioned the sale of 700 spaces to able bodied STH at £360 (which is also not cheap). All the BOARD has to do is just keep back say 50 at most to provide for all disabled who need them, FREE. If there are any leftover, then by all means sell them.

It really is as simple as that, but the BOARD are not listening.

 

[teaboy]

No, No, No, No.!!!

First of all, we don't blame each other whatever section we are in. This is a BOARD policy decision. The BOARD are the only ones to feel any heat on this.

As probably one of the most vocal on this, we have to respect that those in 1901 have paid an absolute shed full for their seats. Yes, some came with car park spaces, but by no means all. In fact as clipped points out, a virtually all if not all of the East Stand extension got none at all.

The prinicpal here is that the blueprint at the outset said a certain number of 1901's would get bays with their seats. I went to a 1901 presentation so I know what was said. In the same blueprint the club was to provide disabled bays free of charge.

It is the BOARD that have changed the rules that have caused this issue, not any of the 1901s. As has been said a thousand times now, it is the BOARD that have sanctioned the sale of 700 spaces to able bodied STH at £360 (which is also not cheap). All the BOARD has to do is just keep back say 50 at most to provide for all disabled who need them, FREE. If there are any leftover, then by all means sell them.

It really is as simple as that, but the BOARD are not listening.

Absolutely.

I have NEVER blamed any section of fan for causing these issues. It isn't the fault of 1901 members. I'm NOT pinning blame there - it isn't where it lies. As I have said, the CLUB (ie the board, not supporters) have prioritised 1901/corporate parking over disabled parking, purely for financial reasons (valid or not). Personally I don't think that is right.

It isn't a personal issue to me, just an issue of what I see as the club not looking after the fans that really need it. FA guidelines or not, we could and should be doing better.

 

[bhadeb]

As many people have said when they bought their season ticket they were advised that disabled parking would be free(it always was at withdean). This is what my Mum was told in January when she bought hers. I think that Martin should answer the question as to why he sends an email to bods saying it will also be free and then when the club make the announcement at the beginning on July saying it will £180.00 and they need to pay within 5 days ie by Wednesday 6th July. Now surely its no different that the club saying in January that our season tickets are £400 then come July Oh no its now £580.00!! It cannot be right and fair.
I think a solution to this would be as someone has suggested so that disabled people are charged the same as park and ride and pay £30.00 per season. The club still get money even though they said it was free and disabled pay same as park and ride. I think that the club need to understand that people in wheelchairs don't choose to be in one. it is bad enough to have to deal with a loved one having to use a wheelchair without the club that they support treating them like this. My Mum was at the Goldstone Gillingham and Withdean as STH and now we get to Falmer they do this. I was really looking forward to the new staduim but all this has spoilt it for me.
I would also like another question asked to Mr Perry Mr Brown and Sally Towsend have they have had the unfortunate task of dealing with someone in a wheelchair. I would like them to try it because it isn't easy and would like to know how they get on. They need to realise that it isn't all about money. My Mum would love to use that park and ride because that would mean she isn't crippled with arthritis and she would be able to walk

 

[British Bulldog]

No, No, No, No.!!!

First of all, we don't blame each other whatever section we are in. This is a BOARD policy decision. The BOARD are the only ones to feel any heat on this.

As probably one of the most vocal on this, we have to respect that those in 1901 have paid an absolute shed full for their seats. Yes, some came with car park spaces, but by no means all. In fact as clipped points out, a virtually all if not all of the East Stand extension got none at all.

The prinicpal here is that the blueprint at the outset said a certain number of 1901's would get bays with their seats. I went to a 1901 presentation so I know what was said. In the same blueprint the club was to provide disabled bays free of charge.

It is the BOARD that have changed the rules that have caused this issue, not any of the 1901s. As has been said a thousand times now, it is the BOARD that have sanctioned the sale of 700 spaces to able bodied STH at £360 (which is also not cheap). All the BOARD has to do is just keep back say 50 at most to provide for all disabled who need them, FREE. If there are any leftover, then by all means sell them.

It really is as simple as that, but the BOARD are not listening.

Exactly it's not a fan against fan situation and never should be, It's purely about the club saying one thing and at the last minute doing another.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

This is the whole idea of a Fans Forum to iron out issues that concern us all. For the record I'm disabled and a 1901 club member. I have recieved my passes and parking permits for Bennetts field,each pass is individual to each game,plus there are seven spare for cup games,this will stop what happened at Withers where people were borrowing their sisters/brothers/parents blue badge to park. I have not been asked to pay any fee,wether or not that is because of being in the 1901 club I don't know. I think that there has been a lack of clarification on the disabled parking issue,I intend to bring this up at the FF and hope all will be resolved. Thank you.

 

[Taybha]

For anybody thats able to make the fans forum could they ask the club if a park and ride hired wheelchair accessible mini bus type shuttle service from the closest p&r could be feasible , its obvious now that not all those that need a space will get one so it maybe worth a look , sorry if its been mentioned before .

 

[Chester Drawers]

Missed most of this thread due to hollibobs last week - Im glad that some debate has surfaced on this. As a blue badge holder myself and a fairly regular user of the car park at Withdean I was a little shocked to discover from the club that I would have to pay for the priviledge of using my blue badge at Falmer!!. Its also worth mentioning that when I first got a blue badge I contacted Bods to ask about the scheme at Withdean ... with no reply ..... is it a closed shop?

 

[portlock seagull]

Exactly it's not a fan against fan situation and never should be, It's purely about the club saying one thing and at the last minute doing another.

In a nutshell. 100% what Libra-gully has said too.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

For anybody thats able to make the fans forum could they ask the club if a park and ride hired wheelchair accessible mini bus type shuttle service from the closest p&r could be feasible , its obvious now that not all those that need a space will get one so it maybe worth a look , sorry if its been mentioned before .

As a Brighton-based operator of 18 wheelchair accessible minibuses, I first contacted the Club with this suggestion in January. The offer wasn't taken up at that stage (although it was being said then that over 120 disabled parking spaces would be available close to the stadium).

Now that it is apparent that this isn't going to be the case, I have contacted the Club again - and am awaiting a response.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

As a Brighton-based operator of 18 wheelchair accessible minibuses, I first contacted the Club with this suggestion in January. The offer wasn't taken up at that stage (although it was being said then that over 120 disabled parking spaces would be available close to the stadium).

Now that it is apparent that this isn't going to be the case, I have contacted the Club again - and am awaiting a response.

LB,
So at the beginning of 2011 it appears that the Club were (more or less) going along with the recommendations contained in BS8300 - ie 6% minimum disabled spaces (120/2,000) for new recreational facilities - although a "more" figure, as suggested for stadia, was never mentioned/finalised at the time?
Last week, I formally asked Building Control at B&HCC why the BS8300 recommendations appear not to have been applied to "disabled" parking at the Amex and the rationale for this; their response time is 10 working days. Depending on this response, there's always the FOI Act to fall back on.

 

[DanielT]

post withdrawn as I hadn't read the whole thread yet... now reading from page 1!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

LB,
So at the beginning of 2011 it appears that the Club were (more or less) going along with the recommendations contained in BS8300 - ie 6% minimum disabled spaces (120/2,000) for new recreational facilities - although a "more" figure, as suggested for stadia, was never mentioned/finalised at the time?
Last week, I formally asked Building Control at B&HCC why the BS8300 recommendations appear not to have been applied to "disabled" parking at the Amex and the rationale for this; their response time is 10 working days. Depending on this response, there's always the FOI Act to fall back on.

The evidence of what the thinking was in January 2011 is this post from saslowi, posted on 27 January, quoting an e-mail from Martin Perry that he had seen:-

North Stand Chat

Seems to have gone off radar. Extracts from MP's email.

39 wheelchair and 39 helper positions at high level in the south east and
south west corners.



We placed seating in the corners because we were advised by NADS, that high corner
positions were the best for those in wheelchairs who had limited mobility of the
neck. We would dispute that this is the worst area for viewing. The view from
these seats is very elevated and excellent.



We have located this seating in the South East and South West corners because we can
achieve level or gently sloping access from the external concourse to each of these
spaces (See the point about the external concourse and site levels above). Also
importantly they have level or gently sloping access into the main concourses.



You should also be aware that the seats in the corners are on super risers so that
when the general seating in the corners is added, wheelchair users will still be
able to see over the row in front as explained above. I checked the view again today
and it is superb.



* 11 wheelchair and 11 helper positions at first floor hospitality level
(Lower Platinum 1901 Club)



* 22 wheelchair and 22 helper positions second floor hospitality level
(Upper Platinum and Gold 1901 Club)



* 17 wheelchair and 17 helper positions for away supporters at high level in
the south stand

This means that more than half of the wheelchair positions for home fans are at high
level.

Disabled car parking and travel arrangements.

The key facts are these:


* There are over 120 disabled parking spaces being created in the new car
park being constructed between the railway and the A27 (known as Park Wall Farm) and
in the University of Sussex. The priority on who uses these will be decided in
consultation with BODS.

* Access to the Park Wall Farm car park is via the main external concourse
where we anticipate there will be heavy pedestrian traffic. No vehicles will be
allowed on the concourse from 1½ hours before the game for safety reasons.
Similarly, there will also be a delay after the game until it is safe to use the
concourse, this is unlikely to be any more than 30 - 45 minutes and is unavoidable.

* We have already agreed to talk to BODS about the provision of shuttles
from the Park and Rides for disabled supporters and to continue and extend the home
collection service that is currently arranged for some wheelchair users. It should
also be borne in mind that most of Brighton & Hove Bus Company vehicles now have
disabled access and it is their buses that will be used for the park and ride sites.

* There will be an area for disabled drop off in the coach park at the stadium.

* If you wish to travel by rail, our new footbridge makes Falmer station
fully accessible for wheelchair users.

Concessions for Disabled Supporters

The decision to withdraw special concessions for disabled supporters was a Board
Policy implemented following consultation with NADS and along with many other clubs,
on the basis that all supporters should be treated equally and charged the same
amount in individual areas.

The pricing policy therefore for wheelchair positions is that the prices are exactly
the same as the area to which they relate, although as before, a disabled persons
personal assistant is admitted free of charge.

This is only fair and applies to wheelchair users as well as ambulant disabled and
equalises the position for all supporters. We did have a number of concessions at
Withdean because the viewing positions were so poor including the wheelchair
positions under the control box. At the Amex stadium this no longer applies. We
are convinced that the viewing positions from all wheelchair positions are equally
as good as anywhere in the stadium and therefore the pricing policy reflects this.