Disabled Parking

[British Bulldog]

I totally agree that the club have handled this situation poorly. I really hope that supporters with genuine needs are accommodated to their satisfaction. I wonder if the club could incorporate any parking charge into the monthly payments of the season ticket to ease the unexpected financial burden they have placed on disabled parking spots?

In fairness the club have given the option of paying by 6 monthly instalments of £30 which in reality is'nt a lot of money to most people, but in my situation since I've now lost my job and having to get by on a small pension £30 a month extra suddenly becomes quite a bit when you was'nt expecting it.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

i am fully aware the disabled community is not restricted to wheelchair users but im sure you will agree it is mainly wheelchair users that are mostly concerned they will not be able to secure a disabled parking bay with the sufficient width to allow wheelchair access in and out of a car.

The main reason that disabled parking is needed is NOT just about the size of the parking bay. That matters to wheelchair users, of course. It also matters to a lot of non-wheelchair users with mobility impairments, who need a car door to be fully opened to enable them to get in and out the vehicle.

The main benefit that people with disabilities need is a short walking distance to the stadium. I'm not going to turn this discussion into a debate between people with different disabilities, but it is arguable that a wheelchair user with a pusher can cope more easily with their car being parked 500 metres from the stadium entrance than an ambulant disabled person can. Yet it looks like wheelchair users are being given exclusive use of the 46 available spaces.

In a sell-out crowd at the Amex, it could be expected that getting on for 500 spectators would have what they would describe as a serious mobility related disability - and several hundred of these will find it very difficult to walk as far as 200 metres.

Nothing is being done for them, except - it would seem - they are currently in the process of being factored out of the issue by being told they won't qualify for a disabled parking space.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If you make a statement saying the parking will be free, then realise you have way too many applicants for that parking space, then as a commercial enterprise......

you look a bit incompetent for failing to deliver on a promise.

Any well run business would plan for different scenarios and not make public promises they cannot keep.

 

[Superphil]

you look a bit incompetent for failing to deliver on a promise.

Any well run business would plan for different scenarios and not make public promises they cannot keep.

100% agree, the club seem to have made a massive error on this, does anyone know how over subscribed the 46 parking spaces are?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

100% agree, the club seem to have made a massive error on this, does anyone know how over subscribed the 46 parking spaces are?

I don't know who has been invited to apply for them.

Some holders of disabled season tickets at Withdean who have a (fully paid) season ticket at the Amex haven't been sent any information about the availability of disabled parking spaces. The Club have contacted some disabled supporters, but not all.

 

[British Bulldog]

I don't know who has been invited to apply for them.

Some holders of disabled season tickets at Withdean who have a (fully paid) season ticket at the Amex haven't been sent any information about the availability of disabled parking spaces. The Club have contacted some disabled supporters, but not all.

In my case I was sent a questionaire about travel arrangements and I opted to park at the ground ( as I was expecting ) so I guess thats why they sent me an application form for parking, As to why they hav'nt been sent to all disabled STH's is anybody's guess.

 

[teaboy]

I think that perhaps they were not anticipating the tremendous response from supporters, disabled or not, for the purchase of season tickets. E.g. originally they expected to sell around 500-750 1901 seats, now there are 2500, there are a number of promises made to those buyers at the time of purchase that have been taken back.

Perhaps this is a case of over subscription across the board, the law of supply and demand comes into play, and everyone suffers in some way or another. If you make a statement saying the parking will be free, then realise you have way too many applicants for that parking space, then as a commercial enterprise, you make a commercial decision, there probably isn’t a business in the country that wouldn’t have done the same.

I completely disagree with this. It doesn't matter how many ST or 1901 Club tickets they originally thought they could sell. THEY decided on the number that would be available. THEY decided to increase the number available despite not having the appropriate facilities available. That's greed. Secondly putting greed in front of customer care will not help you retain customers. This is even more important with ST holders who are likely to be long-term 'customers' and not care how terrible the 'product' is.

It is purely bad planning. Things are being done as an after-thought that should've been priority.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I completely disagree with this. It doesn't matter how many ST or 1901 Club tickets they originally thought they could sell. THEY decided on the number that would be available. THEY decided to increase the number available despite not having the appropriate facilities available. That's greed. Secondly putting greed in front of customer care will not help you retain customers. This is even more important with ST holders who are likely to be long-term 'customers' and not care how terrible the 'product' is.

It is purely bad planning. Things are being done as an after-thought that should've been priority.

Spot on.

 

[rocker959]

A flyer I put on non blue badge vehicles in designated bays, feel free to copy , print and use any fellow holders.

 

[tinytears]

156 I think but am waiting for B&HC Council to confirm this.

There 163 wheelchair spaces & 163 helper spaces. This includes 1901 , boxes & all hospitality areas.

After disabled issues were raised on NSC early this year , BODS were invited by the club to talk through all the issues. We were joined by the National Assosiation of Disabled Supporters who are more versed than us on all the legalities. The main issues discussed were positions of wheelchair areas, removal of concession rates & parking.

I will deal with parking first. All along the club told us there would only be 26 bb spaces at the ground. Then after NSC raised all the questions . some of you will remember Martin Perry released a statement which said there will actually be 120. We queried it & 2 days later Richaerd Hebberd told us neither was right it was actually 100. At our meeting in March they said they were waiting on planning permission & could not confirm numbers. They did reitterate that they would be charging for it. BODS argued that we felt this was not fair as disabled people had no option but to drive & that priority should not be given to those with the ability to pay.

On April 29th we received a response via email. It confirmed there would be 46 spaces. 22 at Park Wall Farm & 24 at the Corner site. They said they these spaces would be free of charge to genuine cases of need by disabled people. They offered to pay for community transport & to run a buggy service from a yet to be confirmed location.

We later contacted the club to suggest they send a questionaire to ALL disabled supporters (not just BODS members) to gage what peoples needs were.

About a month a go parking arrangements were put on the club website & it disclosed a charge for disabled parking. We immediatelly set up a meeting with Sally Townsend, Martin Perry & Ken Brown. It became clear that the parking charge would be applied. Although we do not agree with the charge the club are not doing anything illegal. We did negotiaite that the club allow this to be paid in installments.
We took home all the questionairres to collate them

Tuesday of last week we returned them & gave our advise. We were told that there are now only 36 spaces as 4 will be kept for away fans & 6 were taken for 1901 club. The demand far outways supply. There is no fair way to allocate spaces . Everyone has a good reason to need these spaces. You cannot decide one person needs a space more than another & we have been advised it is not legal to do so. We felt the only system we could find that was legal & showed some fairness was loyalty. We suggested disabled season ticket holders at Withdean were offered them first.

Just to set the record straight , BODS members get no priority. In fact I will not be getting a space as I cannot afford the £180. So even I dont know how I will get there. BODS have emailed the transport manager with many ideas on how to help with the situation.

We have done all we can. Without the club finding more spaces there is nothing else BODS can do except monitor the situation.

 

[libra-gully]

I dont think anybody is claiming low income is exclusive to disabled people, The gripe is when we signed up for a season ticket we were told that a parking space at the ground for wheelchair users would be privided free of charge and I for one trusted the club on this. Now I find out with a couple of weeks to go before the first game that if I want that parking space it will cost me an extra £180, So where I thought my travel and parking plans were all sorted they've now been thrown into chaos because I've been lied to by the club. Personally I think if the club were planning on charging for these spaces then they should've been upfront about it in the first place and I also think they could've kept the charges down to a reasonable amount rather than the nearly £8 a game it works out to. On top of that if I did pay for a parking spot then to be able to use it I would have to get to the Amex at least 90 mins before kick off and would'nt be able to leave for at least an hour after the game finishes, I know an hour might not sound a long time but because I've got no choice but to sit in the front row of the north stand and being open to the elements by the end of the game ( if it's cold and wet ) i'm going to be aching like a beast and all i'm going to want to do is get home to get in the warm and dry so hanging around for another hour will seem a hell of a long time especially when you get charged that amount for the privalage.

This experience is very common amongst the disabled 'community'. I myself often end up missing night games (like Daggenham last season) because sitting out in the damp night air, can make my condition then unbearable for a week to come. I have blue and white running through my veins, but sometimes it is simply not worth the pain and aggro.

The whole finance issue has to be remembered has a two fold angle to it. It was only when I went to the ST presentation did I find out that the usual disabled concession on admission prices was no longer there. Suddenly the cost of a ST to me had increased dramatically. Once again, when I asked about parking because like most disabled supporters it is imperative to me attending, I was categorically told by the chap serving me & my carer, that there would be nothing else to pay other than the cost of your ST.

So now we have the second whammy of days before the season starts, we have a gun to our collective heads, pay a further £180 or use public transport.

When I chose my seats I felt I had 'no choice', and now re: parking I have 'no choice'. Just like being disabled we have no choice!!

 

[libra-gully]

I like Libra-gull, you and I are going to get on famously! Lindfield by the Sea, we'll talk Friday too. FANS UNITED WILL NEVER BE DEFEATED!

Forgive me Portlock, what is happening on Friday to which you refer?

 

[libra-gully]

I’m not in any way belittling the issues here regarding disabled access to the Amex, however, it's not the only thing that has been reneged on since they sold tickets to fans. I think that perhaps they were not anticipating the tremendous response from supporters, disabled or not, for the purchase of season tickets. E.g. originally they expected to sell around 500-750 1901 seats, now there are 2500, there are a number of promises made to those buyers at the time of purchase that have been taken back.

Perhaps this is a case of over subscription across the board, the law of supply and demand comes into play, and everyone suffers in some way or another. If you make a statement saying the parking will be free, then realise you have way too many applicants for that parking space, then as a commercial enterprise, you make a commercial decision, there probably isn’t a business in the country that wouldn’t have done the same.

I like you playing Devil's advocate here Phil, but we all know that the ST numbers now achieved have been planned for right from the time they went on sale. With all the hype, and the pressure to 'buy now to guarantee your seat', even my old Gran knew they were going to sell out.

You mention this is not the only reneg, well shame on the club then. They keep on treating us as customers now in this new service industry of theirs. To keep upsetting your customers by renegging on any deal will lead to complaints (oops! Sorry Mr Naylor!) The excuse constantly being offered up is we are still testing the systems etc. These are Issues of Policy and have nothing to do with ramp up events or the like.

To save anybody being confused by my words, I am now in full complaining mode. I guess that now I am about to upset the club and the Argus sports reporter in one swoop.

Up until a week ago, I had my season planned out, including bringing along my two young children with my carer. By being thrown this curveball of now having to pay £180 for a space I was told would be free, has hacked me right off frankly. Do the club just think we have this money laying around waiting to give to them? As stated by previous posters, I too have no real choice but be driven to games. I don't have the physical luxury of being able to use public transport safely. I've tried it, and it was painful, literally.

So what am I to do? Any suggestions?

 

[Superphil]

The demand far outways supply.....

Without the club finding more spaces ......

What is the demand? And how many more spaces would the club need to find to settle the demand?

 

[Bozza]

I'm finding all of this very sad, and it puts into perspective the travel concerns of the majority of us able-bodied folk. Queuing for the train, waiting for buses, having to park far away and then walking to the Amex - whatever we do, we are lucky enough to have choices. We will get to games if we want to.

It should go without saying, but in case not - I'm happy for NSC to be used in whatever way it can to try and ensure EVERYONE is able to get to games as comfortably and stress-free as possible. Let me know if there's anything we can do.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

What is the demand? And how many more spaces would the club need to find to settle the demand?

My estimate - informed by some evidence-based research I did earlier this year (which BODS and the Club saw in February) - is this:-

The Amex Community Stadium has a capacity of 22,500 spectators. In a sell-out crowd, it could reasonably be expected that around 2,000 spectators would have some form of mobility related disability and approaching 500 spectators would have what they would describe as a serious mobility related disability. There will be several hundred spectators who will experience some difficulty walking 200 metres.

 

[Superphil]

I like you playing Devil's advocate here Phil, but we all know that the ST numbers now achieved have been planned for right from the time they went on sale. With all the hype, and the pressure to 'buy now to guarantee your seat', even my old Gran knew they were going to sell out.

I wasn't really thinking about being DA on this. I remember many moons ago, right back in Feb 2010 or there abouts, there was a comment on here that the club had set its sights on selling out the entire stadium in season tickets, and I seem to remember the response on here was in the relam of 'in the clubs dreams'.

I also know that they had no idea that 1901 would be so popular, I was at one of the presentations in the very first week, and then they were talking about Platinum, Gold, Silver and even Bronze memeberships if it helped them to fill the WSM, in reality they knew after the first couple of weeks that the demand was greater than this, and therefore did not offer the silver and bronze options at all. Even then, they were only hoping to sell out the WSM. In reality, the demand was so great they opened up WSL and eventually the East Stand for Platinum members, such was the demand. There is no way they imagined the demand would be that great.

This has lead to a problem with parking spaces for both 1901 memebers and blue badge spaces. The group of us that go together have taken one less parking space than we were entitled to as we will "car-share". If there are others who can do the same, then perhaps there is an opportunity to 'give back' some of the 1901 spaces and re-use them for blue badge parking, once we know what the demand for blue badge spaces is.

As for paying for the blue badge spaces, people may disagree with this, however, the club is a business, and the business has decided to deal with it this way.

 

[The Large One]

There is a curious contradiction in the answers to a couple of questions that the Club have now given:-

Is it fair to charge for a disabled parking space?
Yes, most privately owned car parks do. It would also be positive discrimination against other fans if we did not charge.

Are Senior Citizens' Concessionary Bus Passes valid on the park & ride buses?
Yes.


The Club sees it as unfair discrimination against other fans if parking is given to disabled supporters free of charge. Yet they don't see it as unfair discrimination, if the Club pays for senior citizens to travel free on P&R buses.

The point I am making may be obscure, but bear with me. I know how the Concessionary Bus Pass Scheme works. I run bus services that qualify for funding under the Scheme. I used to be responsible for administering the Concessionary Bus Pass Scheme in Brighton.

It is a condition of the Scheme that, for a bus service to qualify for Council funding under the Scheme it must be registered with the Traffic Commissioner as a local bus service. The Park & Ride buses are not registered. Therefore any use of Concessionary Bus Passes on them is not paid for by the Council. Free travel on P&R buses is therefore being funded by the Football Club. Nothing wrong with that, in principle - it benefits senior citizens, at the expense of other fans who don't enjoy the benefit.

But, curiously, this "discrimination against other fans" is rejected by the Club as wrong, when applied to disabled parking charges, where the beneficiaries would be disabled supporters.

If 'positive discrimination' REALLY is an issue - may I make a suggestion?

Instead of a free parking space, how about the club charge £30 per person per season for using the disability spaces? It's the same cost as an annual Travel Voucher.

The people involved in this disability scheme inform the club (truthfully) how many people are travelling in the nominated vehicle. Or would this be a palaver to organise?

Or am I missing the point?

 

[Superphil]

My estimate - informed by some evidence-based research I did earlier this year (which BODS and the Club saw in February) - is this:-

The Amex Community Stadium has a capacity of 22,500 spectators. In a sell-out crowd, it could reasonably be expected that around 2,000 spectators would have some form of mobility related disability and approaching 500 spectators would have what they would describe as a serious mobility related disability. There will be several hundred spectators who will experience some difficulty walking 200 metres.

The Albion will be providing far more than some clubs in the division, and in some cases there are clubs who provide no blue badge parking at all, even though they have plenty of space to do so, and their grounds are far bigger, how do they get away with that?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So what am I to do? Any suggestions?

Good question, and it needs a quick solution.

I understand that there are still Sussex Uni spaces for sale. A short term solution I have is to designate the Sussex Uni cark park which is closest to the A27 underpass as disabled. I think it is car park P2, out of P1-5. Second, get a team of helpers/pushers to help users to negotiate the underpass and railway bridge. Maybe go and ask the Sussex University sports teams for staff. Pushers hang around at the end to help get everyone back.

This is far from perfect I appreciate. It's a short term simple fix, nothing more.