Dick Knight on the fans phone in after Mansfield game

[Brovion]

Why do you think this club is competing below its natural level? There was a thread a couple of years ago that showed the historical position of all clubs in the football league and, IIRC, Brighton were about midway in the third division, exactly where we are now. As you admit, our hands have been tied by the stadium issue so to be performing at slightly above our "natural" level is an even more remarkable achievement.

Totally agree. People go on about our latent support, but the most casual glance through the record books shows that historically we are a mid-table, third-tier team. Also historically Brighton is not a footballing town, nor Sussex a footballing county.

Given our current infrastructure and level of regular support we are presently WAY above where we should be. By rights we should currently be a mid-table Conference team. I wonder why we're not?

 

[ROSM]

Glad you posted the above Bens Grandad. Your original post seemed a perfectly reasonable one to me, and I couldn,t understand some of the histrionic replies from some posters, particularly Insider.

because Ben's Grandad used the words 'would' to describe Knight refusing to go on the show and answer questions if he thought they were tough when perhaps having read his explanation he would have been better using the words 'could' and 'may'.

But in either case it is irrelevant as to my knowledge he has never asked for questions in advance on phone ins before and hasn't in this case.

 

[Simster]

I've been quite impressed with the stewardship of DK and the board of directors to be honest. I think they've been honest since they took over and I'm fairly sure they're as frustrated with the Falmer saga as we are. But it's been a qualified success because of the time delays and some of the problems we're now facing.

I probably won't be listening but if I was, I'd have these questions:

a) how many potential investors have been scared off or partially scared off by the honourable insistence that there is no single majority shareholder? And who are these people, if any? I think the fans should be told, so that they can make their own minds up on whether it's a price worth paying.

b) what is the club's view on the importance of getting bums on seats at Withdean? And is time to simply let kids under 7 in for free? They will, afterall, be 8, 9 or ten when Falmer is built!

c) Has the club researched into the reasons why people aren't coming any more? Is it down to Withdean alone? I can only give my personal circumstance, which is that I don't go because Withdean represents such piss poor value for money and I can't justify the perceived cost and advance preparation. I'm waiting for Falmer to be built to take my family - and I suspect a lot of people are thinking the same way.

d) Out of interest, what sort of return can the board of directors expect from the club when Falmer is built? I want some balance on the issue that our directors have been pouring cash into a bottomless pit. Because lets not forget, there are fans who have invested as much time and money as they can afford into getting Falmer approved and stand to make no money at all.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Win, lose or draw I'm always just grateful that I have a club to follow.

 

[Giraffe]

Why do you think this club is competing below its natural level? There was a thread a couple of years ago that showed the historical position of all clubs in the football league and, IIRC, Brighton were about midway in the third division, exactly where we are now. As you admit, our hands have been tied by the stadium issue so to be performing at slightly above our "natural" level is an even more remarkable achievement.

I see no reason with a stadium why we can't be as big or succesful as Charlton or Reading to use just two examples. Historic fan base is similar and in Reading's case much bigger. Thats all I meant by the statement. With the correct investment and the growth in the status of Brighton and Hove as a whole I would think we should be a Championship side with occasional Premiership aspirations, and I think most supporters would concur with that.

 

[Simster]

Wise words Giraffe. As far as I'm concerned, Brighton should be a far bigger club than we have been historically.

This county has 1.85m people living in it, is home to the world's busiest international airport (and one of the most heavily used) and we have one fairly shit professional football team. It is time to change that.

 

[Barnham Seagull]

I agree with the sentiment of what you say. However the basic facts are that crowds are significantly down on what they once were. This is a result of some very poor judgements, partly by DK, but also Martin Perry in the treatment of season ticket holders, the way the ticketing system works, the lack of any real investment in players in the January transfer window over three or four seasons, and the inability of the club to understand why people don't come to games.

DK has done so much for this football club but that does not make him imune from criticism. All anyone ever does is compare him to Archer and Bellotti. Thats like saying Stalin was okay because Lenin was really really bad. Nonsense. The truth is he has done a pretty good job, but frankly whoever came in was starting from a point where for a few years they had little to lose in terms of expectations, we were rock bottom and the only way was up. Regardless of anything, Brighton is a club still competing below its "natural" level. That is acceptable because of the stadium issues, however sometimes DK and the general running of the club appears to be so secondary to the stadium issue that all things become farcical.

I think the drop in attendances that we have seen this season is largely as a result of the Falmer decision. The huge hype built up over this has left people excited but sadly nothing has yet happened, and doesn't yet appear to be happening. Perhaps once the bulldozers finally commence work then this will change. The problem is during this time loyal supporters have been pissed off in a number of different ways which has led to people not caring as much as they used and getting out of the habit of going to football on a Saturday. All of this last bit is sadly because DK and MP took their eyes off the running of the club, appeared to take the supporters for granted whilst they concentrated on Falmer. I agree this was for the long term benefit but wish they could have seen the damage they were doing to the clubs support.

I think DK compares very favourable with many ex chairmen of the club, but please don't always use Archer as the measure. The guy was a villain, he should not be the yardstick.

I concur, very well put that man.

 

[Barnham Seagull]

I see no reason with a stadium why we can't be as big or succesful as Charlton or Reading to use just two examples. Historic fan base is similar and in Reading's case much bigger. Thats all I meant by the statement. With the correct investment and the growth in the status of Brighton and Hove as a whole I would think we should be a Championship side with occasional Premiership aspirations, and I think most supporters would concur with that.

That is definately what we should be aiming for, and hopefully when falmer arrives and with good management should be acheived,

 

[ROSM]

Wise words Giraffe. As far as I'm concerned, Brighton should be a far bigger club than we have been historically.

This county has 1.85m people living in it, is home to the world's busiest international airport (and one of the most heavily used) and we have one fairly shit professional football team. It is time to change that.

agree entirely and indeed one of the very major arguments put forward for the stadium (although would swap the word 'shit' for 'underachieving given the demographics')

 

[Knotty]

I've been quite impressed with the stewardship of DK and the board of directors to be honest. I think they've been honest since they took over and I'm fairly sure they're as frustrated with the Falmer saga as we are. But it's been a qualified success because of the time delays and some of the problems we're now facing.

I probably won't be listening but if I was, I'd have these questions:

a) how many potential investors have been scared off or partially scared off by the honourable insistence that there is no single majority shareholder? And who are these people, if any? I think the fans should be told, so that they can make their own minds up on whether it's a price worth paying.

b) what is the club's view on the importance of getting bums on seats at Withdean? And is time to simply let kids under 7 in for free? They will, afterall, be 8, 9 or ten when Falmer is built!

c) Has the club researched into the reasons why people aren't coming any more? Is it down to Withdean alone? I can only give my personal circumstance, which is that I don't go because Withdean represents such piss poor value for money and I can't justify the perceived cost and advance preparation. I'm waiting for Falmer to be built to take my family - and I suspect a lot of people are thinking the same way.

d) Out of interest, what sort of return can the board of directors expect from the club when Falmer is built? I want some balance on the issue that our directors have been pouring cash into a bottomless pit. Because lets not forget, there are fans who have invested as much time and money as they can afford into getting Falmer approved and stand to make no money at all.

It must be impossible for the board to say what, if any, return shareholders will get at any time.

Directors are not necessarily shareholders, nor are shareholders necessarily directors. Only some are actually salaried employees of the club. Shareholders will get a dividend in any year that the board decide that one is payable based on the financial performance of the business.

If I were to win the lottery, I would 'invest' in the club but I would assume that I would never see a return on it, because if I were investing to make money, I wouldn't put money into any football club!

As for the time and money you, I and thousands of others have put in, that is our choice. That's what we do in support of our club. What we pay to watch a match gives us a right to see 90 minutes of football. No more than that. It is no different to buying a ticket for the cinema or a theatre. For anything we have contributed outside of ticket costs what is the return? In our case, survival, permission for a new ground and, hopefully, better days ahead.

A new ground will not guarantee good football or large profits for the shareholders.

As for value-for-money at Withdean, what represents the right figure? I stood on the crumbling terraces at the Goldstone, got soaked and, on many occasions, saw some abysmal football. Other facilities were simply awful too. Was that good value-for-money? The head says 'No way.' The heart says 'Yes - every time!'

Withdean is awful but better that than nothing. For number of years I thought we would never get back to Sussex and that the club would fold. I'm sure the directors hate Withdean too.

They must have done their figures to establish the optimum ticket prices to get maximum revenue. Simply reducing the price will not necessarily get a regular increase in sales to outweigh that reduction with increased revenue. If it did, why would they not implement it? It would make no sense.

 

[Brovion]

Wise words Giraffe. As far as I'm concerned, Brighton should be a far bigger club than we have been historically.

This county has 1.85m people living in it, is home to the world's busiest international airport (and one of the most heavily used) and we have one fairly shit professional football team. It is time to change that.

Oh I agree, but saying "we should be bigger than we are" is only one step away from saying "we deserve to be in the Premiership"; which of course is what all those fans of busted, second-rate, will-never-get-any-bigger-than-they-are clubs such as Leeds, Wolves and Palace say.

 

[Simster]

Not really. Saying "we should be bigger than we are" is suggesting that we should have a bigger fan base, and better stadium than we have had in our history. Even now, fairly noddy outfits like Bolton, Reading and Fulham should be well within range in the next few years.

And yes Brovion, I have noticed the change of spelling. What of it?

 

[B.W.]

Totally agree. People go on about our latent support, but the most casual glance through the record books shows that historically we are a mid-table, third-tier team. Also historically Brighton is not a footballing town, nor Sussex a footballing county.

Given our current infrastructure and level of regular support we are presently WAY above where we should be. By rights we should currently be a mid-table Conference team. I wonder why we're not?

So, how many mid-table conference teams get around 6,000 a game?... answer = none... and just to remind you... we were in the old first division.. I was there supporting them then, and before then... don't underestimate the potential of this club... we should be on a par with teams like Ipswich, Norwich, Watford, all of which have played relatively recently in the Prem...

 

[Giraffe]

So, how many mid-table conference teams get around 6,000 a game?... answer = none... and just to remind you... we were in the old first division.. I was there supporting them then, and before then... don't underestimate the potential of this club... we should be on a par with teams like Ipswich, Norwich, Watford, all of which have played relatively recently in the Prem...

Exactly.

 

[Brovion]

So, how many mid-table conference teams get around 6,000 a game?... answer = none... and just to remind you... we were in the old first division.. I was there supporting them then, and before then... don't underestimate the potential of this club... we should be on a par with teams like Ipswich, Norwich, Watford, all of which have played relatively recently in the Prem...

I said support AND infrastructure. Not many other clubs play in a converted, rented athletics stadium and have had to pay out x million pounds over the last ten years in a series of planning battles. Both those factors have weakened us; also I'm not sure what our average crowd has been since we joined the Football League but I'll bet it's higher than it is now. Take all those factors into account and we're STILL punching at our old weight which is remarkable under the circumstances

I was there in the old 1st division too - and for 14 years before that. If you'd told me on that day at Newcastle that 20 years later we'd be playing at Withdean in front of crowds of 6-7000 I'd have said you were mad. Yes we COULD be on a par with clubs like Ipswich and Bolton - but we have no God-given right to. In other words given our optimistic human condition we all HOPE the potential of the club can be realised, even though it hasn't been in the past!

 

[Storer68]

its a bit much when we are wishing at some point we could be on a par with Wigan Athletic.......

 

[Lord Bracknell]

its a bit much when we are wishing at some point we could be on a par with Wigan Athletic.......

Oh dear.

Maybe your misery stems from the fact that football has moved on since the heyday that you are so clearly missing?

1976/77 Peter Ward scores 36 goals for the Albion
1976/77 Wigan Athletic stuck in the Northern Premier League

I guess there are folk in Wigan who remember the good old days when Lancashire CCC disdainfully swept the likes of Sussex CCC to one side.

Things change. Move with them.

 

[NMH]

Things change. Move with them.

This is probably why we had 32,000 fans filling The Goldstone at times, but people ask where they went to. People have been discouraged about The Albion's fate since, and although some watched with interest to find out what became of the club - too many fell by the wayside, dissipated with the evil Archer master-plan, and basically did not move with any times.

For those crowds to be resurrected, a small percentage 'may' come back out of intrigue and old-times sake, when the new Stad opens for business - but the majority will have to be from a new breed, and tempted in by incentives.

A couple of times the club have encouraged fans to swarm in, only to witness a sorry performance once they did venture in, in their hope. The team needs to do better than they have, when the opportunities do arise to keep curious new attentions.