[Politics] Definitive General Election Poll

[Is it PotG?]

I get people voting Tory, they think that rich aristocrats are their natural masters and believe God chose them to rule over them for ever. But voting for 'Jo Swinson's - Liberal Democrats' baffles me. They are just remain Tories, she's even said they'd be prepared to form a coalition with Boris but not Corbyn. Her voting record is appalling- for fracking, bombing, benefit cuts, school and health privatisation, making low paid workers pay for employment tribunals (her idea as minister, for which she got spanked by the courts) etc. Whilst not forgiving Cameron for calling a referendum, it was she that stood up and demanded it in parliament. She can forgive Cameron for austerity that has lead to the premature deaths of 130,000 people (whilst in his cabinet). I couldn't give a monkeys cock about brexit, Boris is about to dismantle the welfare state, remove all workers (what's left after 40 years of Thatcherism) rights. Corbyn can't be beaten on all of the most important issues: Health, education, the environment, pensions, housing, pay, transport, tax, utilities, war, trade, investment etc. If we leave or remain, these are the issues that really matter. Try and find someone that works in the health service or education who isn't voting Labour and they are a pariah to their colleagues. Rant over, must knock on doors now.

Get Corbyn in, what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Granny on the wing]

I get people voting Tory, they think that rich aristocrats are their natural masters and believe God chose them to rule over them for ever. But voting for 'Jo Swinson's - Liberal Democrats' baffles me. They are just remain Tories, she's even said they'd be prepared to form a coalition with Boris but not Corbyn. Her voting record is appalling- for fracking, bombing, benefit cuts, school and health privatisation, making low paid workers pay for employment tribunals (her idea as minister, for which she got spanked by the courts) etc. Whilst not forgiving Cameron for calling a referendum, it was she that stood up and demanded it in parliament. She can forgive Cameron for austerity that has lead to the premature deaths of 130,000 people (whilst in his cabinet). I couldn't give a monkeys cock about brexit, Boris is about to dismantle the welfare state, remove all workers (what's left after 40 years of Thatcherism) rights. Corbyn can't be beaten on all of the most important issues: Health, education, the environment, pensions, housing, pay, transport, tax, utilities, war, trade, investment etc. If we leave or remain, these are the issues that really matter. Try and find someone that works in the health service or education who isn't voting Labour and they are a pariah to their colleagues. Rant over, must knock on doors now.

I think your first sentence is untrue and just what is in your head .A lot of workers these days are small business or self employed in lots of industries and are just trying to pay their bills .Tory Toffs and rich aristocrats are not really talked about more likely to be Football ,Rugby or their once a year holiday IMO.

 

[Comrade Sam]

It's amazing how Britain's leading anti racist and workers rights campaigner of the last 30 years can be so vilified by the press. I wonder if they might have vested interests in stopping a Corbyn government. As for the Jewish Chronicle, I'm a Jew and that has always been a nasty right wing rag that does not speak on behalf of the Jewish community.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You forgot to mention rampant Anti-Semitism, flip floppery on brexit and a barely concealed contempt of the working class. Still, some people will turn a blind eye to anything.

Christ, you've even got a a former Labour minister telling voters to vote for Boris, and even the Jewish Chronicle is weighing in telling voters to examine their conscience before voting Labour. Something's wrong.

Right wing press?

 

[Bold Seagull]

It's amazing how Britain's leading anti racist and workers rights campaigner of the last 30 years can be so vilified by the press. I wonder if they might have vested interests in stopping a Corbyn government. As for the Jewish Chronicle, I'm a Jew and that has always been a nasty right wing rag that does not speak on behalf of the Jewish community.

The Jewish Chronicle editor Stephen Pollard also writes for the Express, the Mail, the Sun and the Telegraph.

Can't imagine his other employers rang up with a "Steve, Steve, the Tory Party have had a shocking day, couldn't rustle up a decent headline for us could you?".

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

It’s not that I rate any particular factor in that order. It’s that overall I see significant benefits of leaving with no deal and significant benefits of remaining, but I can’t see a single area in which we’ll be best off after leaving with a deal. Leaving with a deal is a compromise that suits nobody at all. We should be in or out.

So effectively I’m saying the country should be run by the Brexit Party or the Lib Dems. Jesus

Jesus indeed!

I think leaving with a deal benefits tens of millions in relation to no deal, but that's a discussion for the brexit thread

 

[Eeyore]

You forgot to mention rampant Anti-Semitism, flip floppery on brexit and a barely concealed contempt of the working class. Still, some people will turn a blind eye to anything.

Christ, you've even got a a former Labour minister telling voters to vote for Boris, and even the Jewish Chronicle is weighing in telling voters to examine their conscience before voting Labour. Something's wrong.

PS. Don't come knocking on my door.

The Jewish Chronicle is not the all seeing barometer in Jewish opinion. They were openly criticised by large numbers of Jewish activits for their attacks on Corbyn.

As regards 'rampant anti-Semitism', your comment infers that a sizeable group in the Labour Party are of this ilk. Can you provide evidence ?

Or are you simply holding the line of the right wing media in the hope to smear the left ?

 

[Eeyore]

It's amazing how Britain's leading anti racist and workers rights campaigner of the last 30 years can be so vilified by the press. I wonder if they might have vested interests in stopping a Corbyn government. As for the Jewish Chronicle, I'm a Jew and that has always been a nasty right wing rag that does not speak on behalf of the Jewish community.

It's something that frustrates me. I was having this discussion with a Jewish friend a while back. I abhor racist attitudes- especially against Jews. Probably the most persecuted race of all.

But being critical of Jewish government policy is not the same as racism (unless that's its origin). It seems that those on the right are now successfully fusing the two. I've noticed one or two people on the left have been suspended for saying things that I just can't see as being racist. They weren't an attack on a race of people. They were an attack on a governemnt's actions.

Honestly, I need help in understanding all this and I'm not sure a Jewish right wing rag would be the place to ask.

 

[shingle]

It's something that frustrates me. I was having this discussion with a Jewish friend a while back. I abhor racist attitudes- especially against Jews. Probably the most persecuted race of all.

But being critical of Jewish government policy is not the same as racism (unless that's its origin). It seems that those on the right are now successfully fusing the two. I've noticed one or two people on the left have been suspended for saying things that I just can't see as being racist. They weren't an attack on a race of people. They were an attack on a governemnt's actions.

Honestly, I need help in understanding all this and I'm not sure a Jewish right wing rag would be the place to ask.

What planet are you all living on, there's been three (sorry four) in the last 24 hours,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50338256
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/n...labour-candidate-apologises-tweeting-17202771
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-11-08...-of-election-race-after-anti-semitism-claims/
https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/u...byn-fire-anti-semitism-hodge-refuses-back-pm/

Unless you're in total denial, the Labour Party has a big problem with Anti Semitism acknowledged by many inside the party.

edit... another one coming through https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...atest-news-labour-party-corbyn-boris-johnson/

 

[Eeyore]

What planet are you all living on, sometimes I think I'm living in a parallel universe, there's been three (sorry four) in the last 24 hours,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50338256
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/n...labour-candidate-apologises-tweeting-17202771
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-11-08...-of-election-race-after-anti-semitism-claims/
https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/u...byn-fire-anti-semitism-hodge-refuses-back-pm/

Unless you're in total denial, the Labour Party has a big problem with Anti Semitism acknowledged by many inside the party.

edit... another one coming through https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...atest-news-labour-party-corbyn-boris-johnson/

Are you suggesting that there is racism towards Jews or there is opposition to the actions of the Israeli government ?

I looked at the first link read it as a reference to the actions of the Israeli government. If I described the UK as an abusive bully would that make me anti-British ? The choice of words, given the current climate, was unwise and open to a different take however. I accept that.

Now Shylock is a Jewish character in the Merchant of Venice. It could be used as a racial slur. Only the user themselves can explain if that was the case or not.

My point is this. There is a difference between having a racial bias (unacceptable) and attacking another national government's bullying and racist actions.

When I looked into this originally I had no opinion as I like to see what people actually say before taking a view. There have been some unacceptable things said in the Labour Party by a very small group. I agree. However, I have seen people lambasted for saying and observing things that they deem unacceptable in Israeli government policy.

There is a danger that some on the right are fusing the two together to the point that any form of condemnation is seen as racist. I was called a rampant anti-Semite for condemning the views of some Zionists in Israel. However, a friend of mine, who is Jewish, suggested my opinion wasn't hardened enough.

What worries me is that some of the anti-Semite issue is now being drawn down political lines. No wonder some Jews are now fearful. And anti-Semites exist. They are out there. And as Europe begins its slow journey right there may be more. So it's important that context and intent is given a welcome back into our society before we take our eyes off the ball.

 

[theonlymikey]

What planet are you all living on, there's been three (sorry four) in the last 24 hours,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50338256
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/n...labour-candidate-apologises-tweeting-17202771
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-11-08...-of-election-race-after-anti-semitism-claims/
https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/u...byn-fire-anti-semitism-hodge-refuses-back-pm/

Unless you're in total denial, the Labour Party has a big problem with Anti Semitism acknowledged by many inside the party.

edit... another one coming through https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...atest-news-labour-party-corbyn-boris-johnson/

BBC article does not suggest in anyway that the person stepping down is antisemetic. It says they are in an antisemtic row. It implies she has been critical over Israels treatement of Palestine. Palestinians are also Jewish. How can you be an antiemetic pro Jewish rights supporter?

Coventry telegraph. They call for Blair and Netanyahu to die. The fact that Blair isn’t Jewish would suggest her views toward none Jewish and Jewish in her scenario are the same. How can it be antisemetic to treat Balir and Netanyahu?

The same article shows she said Palestine should respond with violence. Again implying she is pro Palestine. Again Palestinians are Jewish. How can you be an antiemetic pro jewish rights supporter? (EDIT she should quit for promoting violence, not for alleged antisemtism)

ITV article reports the candidate made reference to Shylock. I’ve never heard the term before in my life until today. I therefore believe it is entirely reasonable for somebody else to have heard it without know the origins. However, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on this one though.

South Wales Argus, this is a re-hash of the “shylock” article as above. Margaret Hodge makes an appearance. She featured in the Labour antisemitism program on the BBC. For which there were apparently six examples of antisemitism. In fact, of those, some were found to not be antisemitic at all, and the others weren’t even Labour members.

So far there have been accusations and “rows”. Is there any particular reason why any of the media outlets of have fallen short of confirming the above examples ARE antisemitic.

I think you actually have been living in a parallel universe. This sums up things quite nicely.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL19...-stop-corbyn-smears-racism-and-censorship.htm

 

[Bold Seagull]

What planet are you all living on, there's been three (sorry four) in the last 24 hours,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50338256
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/n...labour-candidate-apologises-tweeting-17202771
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-11-08...-of-election-race-after-anti-semitism-claims/
https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/u...byn-fire-anti-semitism-hodge-refuses-back-pm/

Unless you're in total denial, the Labour Party has a big problem with Anti Semitism acknowledged by many inside the party.

edit... another one coming through https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...atest-news-labour-party-corbyn-boris-johnson/

So at least 3 of those links are now former Labour Party members resigning due to the swift action of the Labour Party against their remarks. So well done for posting links demonstrating to everyone the Labour Party is taking swift action in the cases of anti-semitism, and has developed more robust disciplinary procedures and monitoring.

Margret Hodge has been reselected as a Labour Party candidate and is still standing and campaigning for a Labour government. She doesn't like Jeremy Corbyn, I suspect there are many still in the Tory Party who don't like Boris Johnson.

 

[shingle]

Are you suggesting that there is racism towards Jews or there is opposition to the actions of the Israeli government ?
Both

I looked at the first link read it as a reference to the actions of the Israeli government. If I described the UK as an abusive bully would that make me anti-British ? The choice of words, given the current climate, was unwise and open to a different take however. I accept that.
I accept that

Now Shylock is a Jewish character in the Merchant of Venice. It could be used as a racial slur. Only the user themselves can explain if that was the case or not.
Shylock is now seen as 'derogatory and offensive' I'm not sure, but wasn't there an issue on here in the dim and distant past regarding someone using this term and our illustrious chairman in the same sentence, and there was quite rightly an uproar.

My point is this. There is a difference between having a racial bias (unacceptable) and attacking another national government's bullying and racist actions.
Absolutely right, but sometimes the lines get blurred.

When I looked into this originally I had no opinion as I like to see what people actually say before taking a view. There have been some unacceptable things said in the Labour Party by a very small group. I agree. However, I have seen people lambasted for saying and observing things that they deem unacceptable in Israeli government policy.
I think it's a bit more than just a small group to be honest.

There is a danger that some on the right are fusing the two together to the point that any form of condemnation is seen as racist. I was called a rampant anti-Semite for condemning the views of some Zionists in Israel. However, a friend of mine, who is Jewish, suggested my opinion wasn't hardened enough.
Land grabbing in the occupied territories and idf human rights abuses should be condemned without fear of being labelled anti semitic

What worries me is that some of the anti-Semite issue is now being drawn down political lines. No wonder some Jews are now fearful. And anti-Semites exist. They are out there. And as Europe begins its slow journey right there may be more. So it's important that context and intent is given a welcome back into our society before we take our eyes off the ball.

I know many don't like her, but Melanie Phillips recent interview about her journey from left to right I found very interesting, and she speaks about her experiences of anti semitism as a Jewish woman. Here's a link for anyone who's interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy2c58dvS-o

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Palestinians are also Jewish.

Ummm, they're really not. You make some good points in your post, but one thing that Palestinians are definitely not, is Jewish.