mona
The Glory Game
errr when has English Planning Law been logical.Theatre of Trees said:
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Day 11 - Tue 22nd Feb – NOISE AND AIR
- Thread starter Tom Hark Preston Park
- Start date
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,834
Theatre of Trees said:
exactly. And i reckon its pretty difficult to evaluate noise impact for residents that dont actually exist yet. Or else by the same logic you could say there is ZERO noise impact on Falmer village since its unfortunate fire...
Theatre of Trees
Well-known member
mona said:
I'm pretty certain the majority of student residences have double glazing installed these days.
patcham seagulls
New member
out of 450 students, there's bound to be a few party animals, or at least 10 birthday's a week .
think of the celebrations, we should object we don't want our lovely new stadium covered in vomit and used condom's.
think of the celebrations, we should object we don't want our lovely new stadium covered in vomit and used condom's.
ShorehamGull
He's now back
My view of the Inquiry (day 11)
To be honest it wasn't the most interesting of days for me just for the fact that there was not much debating going on. Still waiting for Mr Clay to have a good screaming match with either Mr Hopkin or Mr White, it would of helped me from being a little bored today. The only thing that kept me going today was having a good view of Megan, she was looking very cute today.
Anyway on with the action, Mr Colthurst was first to show in the dock this morning as a witness of the club talking about acoustics noise and vibration.
Firstly he was questioned by Mr Clay about what enviromental impact each alternative each will have on residents in the local area. This was done on the basis of noise made by supporters before, during and after the games, traffic noise and construction noise.
Mr Colthurst put a good case across and gave good authority that Falmer came out top on the on his list of recommendations for a site for the stadium in terms it suffered less from noise than the other sites, even though Toads hall came second.
Next was Mrs Dalton who was there on behalf of the club to talk about air pollution. She was questioned by Mr Clay in the same manner of which he questioned Mr Colthurst, by going through each of the alternative sites one by one and talking about the impact on air pollution. She basically came to the same conclusion as Mr Colthurst of which Falmer was more suitable for a stadium, because the air pollution from traffic, construction etc etc wouldn't have anymore impact on Falmer than what is already there.
After lunch of which I had lovely coffee from one of the coffee bars in the area of the Town Hall. I needed a bit of waking up so hopefully this coffee would have done some good to last me through the afternoon.
Mr Rainer was in the dock for the whole of the afternoon, he was there to talk about planning issues and local planning.
Mr Rainer gave a lecture about the planning issues involved at each of the alternative sites in terms of size, transport, impacts on the local area, safety, affordability and other over-riding planning issues and did put a good and constructive case across.
I was starting to lose my concentration once Mr White and Mr Hopkin were doing their cross examination of Mr Rainer and I was starting to feel my eye lids getting heavy even though I did have that coffee at lunch time.
By the close of play just after 5pm, Mr Brier decided that was it for the day, I could tell he was getting tired, and he could see that everyone were getting bored. The concluision of Mr Rainer questioning continues tomorrow in the next chapter.
No real comedy moments today, apart from the suggestion about what to do about Withdean, and Mr Clay's comment was "You can always sell it on Ebay".
And that concludes my views on the days events of which I don't have much to offer, hoping for a better day tomorrow.
Good to see Yorkie and Ned there this morning, hope you found it interesting, and Ned you are not the only one that has fallen under Megan spell, she is cute isn't she?
All those that are interested in Megan we may have some competition. I noticed Mr Brier had his eye on her at some points today, I couldn't see what he was doing with his right hand underneath his desk.
Lord B will give you a more detailed assessment on todays events.
Back again tomorrow for another installment, c y guys
To be honest it wasn't the most interesting of days for me just for the fact that there was not much debating going on. Still waiting for Mr Clay to have a good screaming match with either Mr Hopkin or Mr White, it would of helped me from being a little bored today. The only thing that kept me going today was having a good view of Megan, she was looking very cute today.
Anyway on with the action, Mr Colthurst was first to show in the dock this morning as a witness of the club talking about acoustics noise and vibration.
Firstly he was questioned by Mr Clay about what enviromental impact each alternative each will have on residents in the local area. This was done on the basis of noise made by supporters before, during and after the games, traffic noise and construction noise.
Mr Colthurst put a good case across and gave good authority that Falmer came out top on the on his list of recommendations for a site for the stadium in terms it suffered less from noise than the other sites, even though Toads hall came second.
Next was Mrs Dalton who was there on behalf of the club to talk about air pollution. She was questioned by Mr Clay in the same manner of which he questioned Mr Colthurst, by going through each of the alternative sites one by one and talking about the impact on air pollution. She basically came to the same conclusion as Mr Colthurst of which Falmer was more suitable for a stadium, because the air pollution from traffic, construction etc etc wouldn't have anymore impact on Falmer than what is already there.
After lunch of which I had lovely coffee from one of the coffee bars in the area of the Town Hall. I needed a bit of waking up so hopefully this coffee would have done some good to last me through the afternoon.
Mr Rainer was in the dock for the whole of the afternoon, he was there to talk about planning issues and local planning.
Mr Rainer gave a lecture about the planning issues involved at each of the alternative sites in terms of size, transport, impacts on the local area, safety, affordability and other over-riding planning issues and did put a good and constructive case across.
I was starting to lose my concentration once Mr White and Mr Hopkin were doing their cross examination of Mr Rainer and I was starting to feel my eye lids getting heavy even though I did have that coffee at lunch time.
By the close of play just after 5pm, Mr Brier decided that was it for the day, I could tell he was getting tired, and he could see that everyone were getting bored. The concluision of Mr Rainer questioning continues tomorrow in the next chapter.
No real comedy moments today, apart from the suggestion about what to do about Withdean, and Mr Clay's comment was "You can always sell it on Ebay".
And that concludes my views on the days events of which I don't have much to offer, hoping for a better day tomorrow.
Good to see Yorkie and Ned there this morning, hope you found it interesting, and Ned you are not the only one that has fallen under Megan spell, she is cute isn't she?
All those that are interested in Megan we may have some competition. I noticed Mr Brier had his eye on her at some points today, I couldn't see what he was doing with his right hand underneath his desk.
Lord B will give you a more detailed assessment on todays events.
Back again tomorrow for another installment, c y guys
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Lady Bracknell
Handbag at Dawn
Yorkie said:She didn't even glance his way.
He'll be in the spare room until he takes the silly look on his face
I don't suppose this will help much then...
(apologies for recent failure to feature Megan in the Daily Public Inquiry Snap Album so hope this little offering will go some way to make up for poor performance...)
ShorehamGull
He's now back
Well Done Roz, I do remember you taking pictures of Megan today
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 71,897
- Thread starter
- #30
ShorehamGull said:My view of the Inquiry (day 11)
To be honest it wasn't the most interesting of days for me just for the fact that there was not much debating going on. Still waiting for Mr Clay to have a good screaming match with either Mr Hopkin or Mr White, it would of helped me from being a little bored today. The only thing that kept me going today was having a good view of Megan, she was looking very cute today. Mr Rainer was in the dock for the whole of the afternoon, he was there to talk about planning issues and local planning.
Mr Rainer gave a lecture about the planning issues involved at each of the alternative sites in terms of size, transport, impacts on the local area, safety, affordability and other over-riding planning issues and did put a good and constructive case across.
I was starting to lose my concentration once Mr White and Mr Hopkin were doing their cross examination of Mr Rainer and I was starting to feel my eye lids getting heavy even though I did have that coffee at lunch time.
By the close of play just after 5pm, Mr Brier decided that was it for the day, I could tell he was getting tired, and he could see that everyone were getting bored. The concluision of Mr Rainer questioning continues tomorrow in the next chapter.
No real comedy moments today, apart from the suggestion about what to do about Withdean, and Mr Clay's comment was "You can always sell it on Ebay".
And that concludes my views on the days events of which I don't have much to offer, hoping for a better day tomorrow.
Good to see Yorkie and Ned there this morning, hope you found it interesting, and Ned you are not the only one that has fallen under Megan spell, she is cute isn't she?
All those that are interested in Megan we may have some competition. I noticed Mr Brier had his eye on her at some points today, I couldn't see what he was doing with his right hand underneath his desk.
Lord B will give you a more detailed assessment on todays events.
Back again tomorrow for another installment, c y guys
Damn fine reportage ShorehamGull - & gotta admire your staying-power. Can never hack it past lunchtime meself. Keep up the good work there fella - and we are trusting you for full Meganwatch details when the stalker Ned is otherwise engaged
The Clown of Pevensey Bay
Well-known member
Right, I'm going to go on Friday morning as well now.
See you there. I suspect it'll be a bit of a shock for MAX as he hasn't seen me since he had to dive from behind the stumps to catch my erratic leg-breaks, aged about 16.
See you there. I suspect it'll be a bit of a shock for MAX as he hasn't seen me since he had to dive from behind the stumps to catch my erratic leg-breaks, aged about 16.
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ShorehamGull
He's now back
Tom Hark said:Damn fine reportage ShorehamGull - & gotta admire your staying-power. Can never hack it past lunchtime meself. Keep up the good work there fella - and we are trusting you for full Meganwatch details when the stalker Ned is otherwise engaged
Cheers Tom, I'm on the case
See her again tomorrow
ShorehamGull
He's now back
The Clown of Pevensey Bay said:
"Come and join us, Come and join us, Come and join us down the town hall"
The road noise even in Falmer village is constant even mid-afternoon on a weekdays.
It is not a point I would want to put across, but it is pretty horrendous as a general background level, and I would not recommend living there, really, not unless there was an ostensible reason, like a football stadium on some of the crummiest (flintiest: lost of flints) farmland I have ever come across not on a cliffside (slope too sleep to plough).
This has got to be obvious to a Planning Inspector on a site visit.
It is not a point I would want to put across, but it is pretty horrendous as a general background level, and I would not recommend living there, really, not unless there was an ostensible reason, like a football stadium on some of the crummiest (flintiest: lost of flints) farmland I have ever come across not on a cliffside (slope too sleep to plough).
This has got to be obvious to a Planning Inspector on a site visit.
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Lady Bracknell
Handbag at Dawn
ShorehamGull said:
If ever a man deserved an "Above and Beyond the Call of Public Inquiry Duty" sort of medal it'd have the name "ShorehamGull" inscribed upon it.
And there'd be no prizes for guessing who'd present it, I suspect...
Lord Bracknell
On fire
Excellent reports from THPP and ShorehamGull. I can't compete with the wit, so I've written my piece for the Official Site with the intention of capturing just how dull the proceedings can be at times ...
The Albion’s witnesses are putting on a tremendous performance at the Inquiry. Week four – has it really been going on that long? – began with three more of them adding weight to the technical case that will prove that Falmer is the Club’s future.
And it got pretty technical, right from the start. First up was Andrew Colthurst, the expert on noise. He is the man who understands what ‘dBA’ means. It’s something to do with ‘decibels’. Whatever they are.
The rest of us struggled to hear him properly, because we only understand what ‘noise’ is. It’s the racket coming from the generator outside the Town Hall which is powering up the cleaning operation that will make this part of the city centre a joy to look at – once the Inquiry is over.
We did, however, learn something from Mr Colthurst. And that was that the first Inquiry Inspector, John Collyer, plainly didn’t understand his decibels. If he had, he wouldn’t have concluded that a stadium at Toads Hole Valley would have less of a noise impact than Falmer. Hopefully, the data that was provided today will steer the new Inspector away from any temptation to draw more wrong conclusions from the evidence.
Once again, Falmer came out top. In terms of noise impact, Toads Hole Valley is worse, as is Shoreham Harbour. Noise from traffic going home from Sheepcote Valley will severely affect homes in Wilson Avenue. And Withdean would create the worst noise nuisance of all the sites.
Air Quality was the next topic, presented by Mrs Hannah Dalton. She gave a very clear presentation about each of the sites that the Inquiry is considering. Her approach was to take account of existing air quality and then look at short-term effects, like construction work, as well as the long term effects of traffic travelling to and from matches. Her particular concern was not to worsen air quality in those parts of the city where problems exist already.
The conclusion – in terms of the effects on air quality, all sites were ‘acceptable’, but Falmer, Waterhall or Upper Beeding would be best. Withdean and Sheepcote Valley were the worst sites.
All these factors add up to help our case. The technical detail is set out in thick volumes that Inspector Brier no doubt takes back to his hotel room for some light evening reading. What impresses me, though, is that the Club’s witnesses have plainly done the job that they were asked to do – present a professional assessment from an expert’s perspective. They certainly haven’t been paid just to come up with figures that are skewed to support the Falmer case.
Tuesday afternoon was taken up with the evidence of Peter Rainier, the Albion’s planning consultant. His evidence may well turn out to be the most important that is heard at the Inquiry. It is his responsibility to point the Inspector in the direction of all of the relevant policy matters that will decide the outcome.
How do the various sites tie in with local planning policies? Structure Plans? Regional policies? National planning guidance?
He did the now familiar tour of all the sites and found that only one of them was supported in any planning policy as a potential site for a 22,000 seater stadium. But he recognised that this didn’t mean that Falmer was home and dry. The City Council’s Local Plan policy that promotes a community stadium at Falmer was not supported by Inspector Hoile’s report on the Local Plan Inquiry.
Nevertheless, the City Council, as it is entitled to do, had rejected Mr Hoile’s recommendation to abandon that policy. Falmer remained the best site. Beeding Cement Works and Shoreham Airport were too remote and not serious alternatives. Shoreham Harbour was too long term an option, with insuperable access difficulties. The Greyhound Stadium site was too small and Brighton Station was no longer available. Withdean was too small to be a permanent solution.
Waterhall was wholly unacceptable, being north of the A27 and in the proposed National Park. Toads Hole Valley could be considered a development site only in the long term and then only if a business park became a necessity for the city. Sheepcote Valley might be an alternative to Falmer, but only if it was acceptable to impose a significant environmental impact on a large number of local residents and the resultant severe traffic congestion across the city was considered tolerable.
Unsurprisingly, Mr Rainier was subjected to some tricky questioning by the opposition lawyers, who skipped from local to national considerations and back again, as they sought to trip him up. But he proved to be a fleet footed witness who remained standing to the end. Or at least until the end of the day – because he’s back in the witness box on Wednesday for more of the same.
The Albion’s witnesses are putting on a tremendous performance at the Inquiry. Week four – has it really been going on that long? – began with three more of them adding weight to the technical case that will prove that Falmer is the Club’s future.
And it got pretty technical, right from the start. First up was Andrew Colthurst, the expert on noise. He is the man who understands what ‘dBA’ means. It’s something to do with ‘decibels’. Whatever they are.
The rest of us struggled to hear him properly, because we only understand what ‘noise’ is. It’s the racket coming from the generator outside the Town Hall which is powering up the cleaning operation that will make this part of the city centre a joy to look at – once the Inquiry is over.
We did, however, learn something from Mr Colthurst. And that was that the first Inquiry Inspector, John Collyer, plainly didn’t understand his decibels. If he had, he wouldn’t have concluded that a stadium at Toads Hole Valley would have less of a noise impact than Falmer. Hopefully, the data that was provided today will steer the new Inspector away from any temptation to draw more wrong conclusions from the evidence.
Once again, Falmer came out top. In terms of noise impact, Toads Hole Valley is worse, as is Shoreham Harbour. Noise from traffic going home from Sheepcote Valley will severely affect homes in Wilson Avenue. And Withdean would create the worst noise nuisance of all the sites.
Air Quality was the next topic, presented by Mrs Hannah Dalton. She gave a very clear presentation about each of the sites that the Inquiry is considering. Her approach was to take account of existing air quality and then look at short-term effects, like construction work, as well as the long term effects of traffic travelling to and from matches. Her particular concern was not to worsen air quality in those parts of the city where problems exist already.
The conclusion – in terms of the effects on air quality, all sites were ‘acceptable’, but Falmer, Waterhall or Upper Beeding would be best. Withdean and Sheepcote Valley were the worst sites.
All these factors add up to help our case. The technical detail is set out in thick volumes that Inspector Brier no doubt takes back to his hotel room for some light evening reading. What impresses me, though, is that the Club’s witnesses have plainly done the job that they were asked to do – present a professional assessment from an expert’s perspective. They certainly haven’t been paid just to come up with figures that are skewed to support the Falmer case.
Tuesday afternoon was taken up with the evidence of Peter Rainier, the Albion’s planning consultant. His evidence may well turn out to be the most important that is heard at the Inquiry. It is his responsibility to point the Inspector in the direction of all of the relevant policy matters that will decide the outcome.
How do the various sites tie in with local planning policies? Structure Plans? Regional policies? National planning guidance?
He did the now familiar tour of all the sites and found that only one of them was supported in any planning policy as a potential site for a 22,000 seater stadium. But he recognised that this didn’t mean that Falmer was home and dry. The City Council’s Local Plan policy that promotes a community stadium at Falmer was not supported by Inspector Hoile’s report on the Local Plan Inquiry.
Nevertheless, the City Council, as it is entitled to do, had rejected Mr Hoile’s recommendation to abandon that policy. Falmer remained the best site. Beeding Cement Works and Shoreham Airport were too remote and not serious alternatives. Shoreham Harbour was too long term an option, with insuperable access difficulties. The Greyhound Stadium site was too small and Brighton Station was no longer available. Withdean was too small to be a permanent solution.
Waterhall was wholly unacceptable, being north of the A27 and in the proposed National Park. Toads Hole Valley could be considered a development site only in the long term and then only if a business park became a necessity for the city. Sheepcote Valley might be an alternative to Falmer, but only if it was acceptable to impose a significant environmental impact on a large number of local residents and the resultant severe traffic congestion across the city was considered tolerable.
Unsurprisingly, Mr Rainier was subjected to some tricky questioning by the opposition lawyers, who skipped from local to national considerations and back again, as they sought to trip him up. But he proved to be a fleet footed witness who remained standing to the end. Or at least until the end of the day – because he’s back in the witness box on Wednesday for more of the same.
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Rangdo
Registered Cider Drinker
dave the gaffer said:"Within seconds he was asking what about the recent planning permission given for accomodation for 450 students round the front of the building. News to many of us,"
I dont want to say I told you so, but I put this on NSC a couple of weeks ago and wondered at the time how this could have gone through on the nod with not a whimper of disgust from the NIMBY's
Ah, but was it as good as this one:
http://www.northstandchat.biz/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46830
Agree about students watching the games. If you're a football fan, you like to go and see football matches wherever you are.
In Birmingham, I used to watch Aston Villa but also ventured to City and West Brom for something to do. In Plymouth, caught quite a bit of Argyle and in Southampton developed a tiny (very tiny and now almost entirely gone) soft spot for the Saints.
In Birmingham, I used to watch Aston Villa but also ventured to City and West Brom for something to do. In Plymouth, caught quite a bit of Argyle and in Southampton developed a tiny (very tiny and now almost entirely gone) soft spot for the Saints.
Curious Orange
Punxsatawney Phil
Interesting stuff.
I should think the student residence argument is a bit of a dead end.
Students aren't usually in Halls for more than the first year, and a fair portion of them go home at weekends so that Mummy can do their washing for them.
I should think the student residence argument is a bit of a dead end.
Students aren't usually in Halls for more than the first year, and a fair portion of them go home at weekends so that Mummy can do their washing for them.