Dale Farm....this morning is attempted eviction time (merged)

[clapham_gull]

So what happens now to the land that the travellers own?

I'd imagine it might return to an "illegal scrap yard".. it's status (for 40 years) before they bought it.

It's important to retain these historical industrial structures and will be interesting to see the process the authorities go through.

Possibly the project will get lottery funding ? Will they be forced to re-lay the original tarmac ?

I hear Grand Designs are interested but are waiting for the planning permission to get approved.

To think we were arguing whether a ploughed field and a dual carriageway constituted an area of outstanding natural beauty. Basildon have successfully designated a tarmac laden scrap yard (or er.. 40 years) as something to be protected.

Right - I've off to designate my back yard as a World Heritage Site. I'll report back.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

In good news: Anyone see that bitchface Marina Pepper get trampled on by the police? Made my week!

Is that the same Marina Pepper who consistently backed her Council's line opposing development in a green field?

I guess she must have been there to offer her solidarity to Basildon Council.

 

[bhaexpress]

All this talk of "sites" and "illegal occupation" (get a f*cking grip - it's not the west bank), it's worth pointing they own the land and have built homes on half the land without planning permission.

.. something some of our supermarkets haven't exactly been adverse to historically. I'm sure everyone is aware the supermarkets have on occasions built stores much bigger than the planning permission permitted. I don't recall a single occasion when the Police were sent in.

I haven't got a romanticised view of travellers/gypsies at all. I do understand that historically they have travelled for work etc.. but these days 50% don't because practically it doesn't make sense. Where they do differ from me is they want to live together in a tight community somewhat socially cut off. I don't understand but that's entirely up to them.

If they pitched up on some land I owned and refused to budge, I'd definitely have an issue. But they haven't- the land belongs to them.

Should they be building homes without planning permission ? No, of course not... and neither should supermarkets either. However, it appears they is one rule for one etc..

But (and it's a big one) - they are only doing what successive Governments have encouraged them to do - buy some land and build homes on it... and they've drastically reduced the number of "caravan" sites to make sure they do.

The problem is that 80% of Gypsy planning applications are turned down. Any ideas what the community is supposed to do ? I haven't.

Me thinks this situation was somewhat caused by politicians.

Wonder what Cameron thinks ? They are the very definition of "Big Society" and appear to disagree with the current complicated planning regulations.....

mmmm...

The reason a the majority of applications being turned down are because they buy farm land cheaply which is not meant for building. I have a relative who has 10 acres of land in a very upmarket area, he'd make a lot of money if he could sell it for development, even if it was for mobile homes. However he prefers to stay inside of the law. It's hardly complicated when a council says no to any planning application for construction on land that has not been designated for same.

Never mind the stories of anti social behaviour and crime outbreaks which are rife where travellers arive, the plain truth is that if anybody could build where they wanted we'd have anarchy.

 

[User removed 4]

Despite all this talk of "the last acceptable form of racism etc " , does anyone really think that the locals around Dale Farm would have made such a fuss if these travellers had pitched up and been good neighbours who minded their own business and didnt interfere with peoples way of life ?

 

[Screaming J]

Is that the same Marina Pepper who consistently backed her Council's line opposing development in a green field?

I guess she must have been there to offer her solidarity to Basildon Council.

I see in today's Guardian she is quoted as saying "we have to go". Doesn't she have a place in Saltdean to go back to? She isn't a Dale Farm resident is she?

 

[Simster]

All this talk of "sites" and "illegal occupation" (get a f*cking grip - it's not the west bank), it's worth pointing they own the land and have built homes on half the land without planning permission.

.. something some of our supermarkets haven't exactly been adverse to historically. I'm sure everyone is aware the supermarkets have on occasions built stores much bigger than the planning permission permitted. I don't recall a single occasion when the Police were sent in.

I haven't got a romanticised view of travellers/gypsies at all. I do understand that historically they have travelled for work etc.. but these days 50% don't because practically it doesn't make sense. Where they do differ from me is they want to live together in a tight community somewhat socially cut off. I don't understand but that's entirely up to them.

If they pitched up on some land I owned and refused to budge, I'd definitely have an issue. But they haven't- the land belongs to them.

Should they be building homes without planning permission ? No, of course not... and neither should supermarkets either. However, it appears they is one rule for one etc..

But (and it's a big one) - they are only doing what successive Governments have encouraged them to do - buy some land and build homes on it... and they've drastically reduced the number of "caravan" sites to make sure they do.

The problem is that 80% of Gypsy planning applications are turned down. Any ideas what the community is supposed to do ? I haven't.

Me thinks this situation was somewhat caused by politicians.

Wonder what Cameron thinks ? They are the very definition of "Big Society" and appear to disagree with the current complicated planning regulations.....

mmmm...

Some food for thought there I think. Ultimately though, this incident comes down to the fact that we can't have people just flouting the law. I'll accept what you say about supermarkets but the big differerence you neglect to mention is that supermarkets DO apply for planning permission, only sometimes they try and bend the limits of what space they've been given. The travellers here just bought land for buttons and built on it without bothering to tell anyone, and they'd be better off spending their time campaigning for more caravan sites.

Despite all this talk of "the last acceptable form of racism etc " , does anyone really think that the locals around Dale Farm would have made such a fuss if these travellers had pitched up and been good neighbours who minded their own business and didnt interfere with peoples way of life ?

Whilst I agree with you about the rights and wrongs of this case, I think this is a false argument. There are certainly trouble makers amongst these pikeys, but I'm equally fairly certain they get blamed for crimes they are entirely innocent of. The simple fact is that these people needed to be moved on because they built on the land illegally, no more no less.

 

[User removed 4]

Some food for thought there I think. Ultimately though, this incident comes down to the fact that we can't have people just flouting the law. I'll accept what you say about supermarkets but the big differerence you neglect to mention is that supermarkets DO apply for planning permission, only sometimes they try and bend the limits of what space they've been given. The travellers here just bought land for buttons and built on it without bothering to tell anyone, and they'd be better off spending their time campaigning for more caravan sites.

Whilst I agree with you about the rights and wrongs of this case, I think this is a false argument. There are certainly trouble makers amongst these pikeys, but I'm equally fairly certain they get blamed for crimes they are entirely innocent of. The simple fact is that these people needed to be moved on because they built on the land illegally, no more no less.

It's not just the burglaries etc , it's the physical intimidation of people , the riding of quadbikes extremely fast straight at people ,the starting fights in the pubs, and a lot of other forms of anti social behaviour.

 

[perseus]

It's not just the burglaries etc , it's the physical intimidation of people , the riding of quadbikes extremely fast straight at people ,the starting fights in the pubs, and a lot of other forms of anti social behaviour.

Are you talking about rugby groups, football supporters or itinerant homeless (caravan dwellers)? All three get barred from pubs en mass for a good reason.

 

[Perry Milkins]

It's not just the burglaries etc , it's the physical intimidation of people , the riding of quadbikes extremely fast straight at people ,the starting fights in the pubs, and a lot of other forms of anti social behaviour.

I appreciate what you are saying old boy but unless such incidents can be backed up on fact base then your argument falls into heresay - no?

 

[perseus]

Despite all this talk of "the last acceptable form of racism etc " , does anyone really think that the locals around Dale Farm would have made such a fuss if these travellers had pitched up and been good neighbours who minded their own business and didnt interfere with peoples way of life ?

Yep, I know bloody well they would. They think it lowers the tone of the neighbourhood. This happens when Londoners move down south. They move into a big house and start having a go at the natives. And saying what a great team Chelsea were when Chelsea were in Div 2 and we were in Div 3.

 

[somerset]

Look, this isn't about bigotry or subjective views, it's facts. Almost without exception, wherever 'travellers' set up home there is an increase in crime and disorder.

Several years ago a 2 acre patch on the edge of our village that was used as grazing was sold to travellers as it turns out, overnight they fenced it, gated it and poured 20 tons of hardcore over the area then moved 8 large mobile homes onto it. For the next year while it was debated in council and the papers, they took over one of the 4 local pubs, turned it into a no go zone for locals. Petty crime went through the roof, general thefts and drunken disorder, and garbage and scrap was scattered all over the field and the road leading to it.

So you would have thought they would have made some effort to keep their collective heads down and noses clean while they tried to make their case at planning, but no, they did exactly what they wanted and sod the rest of society. You reap what you sow.

 

[perseus]

Foolish Pride

Why do so many of them come over here from Ireland anyway ? What is it they are DOING here exactly ? Is it easier to sponge ? Are the authorities here a softer touch ? Whats better here for them than in Ireland ?

Genuine question.

They came here to build the railways and to fight in the Great War.

The spongers are the bankers and the idle rich. One down on tinkers is that they hold a lot on self sufficiency and rather steal than sponge (or even be given anything).

 

[somerset]

They came here to build the railways and to fight in the Great War.

Really?!?!... or more correctly if you can face the truth of it without blurring facts, they come here because Irelands rules and regs regarding traveller communities, planning permission and benefits are far more draconian than anything we have here..... try and base your anti-establishment rhetoric on some facts please.

 

[bhaexpress]

Whilst I agree with you about the rights and wrongs of this case, I think this is a false argument. There are certainly trouble makers amongst these pikeys, but I'm equally fairly certain they get blamed for crimes they are entirely innocent of. The simple fact is that these people needed to be moved on because they built on the land illegally, no more no less.

That is the crux of it. there's very little doubt that the majority of the trouble at the eviction was caused by outsiders. However it's more than a coincidence that where there'a large presence of travellers there tends to be a rise in the crime rate and yes, anti social behaviour. The one 'good' thing to come out of this is that the owners of the disputed land will have to clear up any mess and not the local council for once.

 

[bhaexpress]

I appreciate what you are saying old boy but unless such incidents can be backed up on fact base then your argument falls into heresay - no?

Must be just a coincidence, funny how there's so many of them though. I'm sure that if anybody was to compile a set of statistics to support the connecion of a rising crime rate to the pressence of travellers that person or organisation would immeadiately be condemned as a racist by the usual suspects. It's a bit like the Senior Met Police Officer who declared that more street crime was commited by Afro Carribean youths than any other group.

 

[User removed 4]

They came here to build the railways and to fight in the Great War.

The spongers are the bankers and the idle rich. One down on tinkers is that they hold a lot on self sufficiency and rather steal than sponge (or even be given anything).

So these Irish travellers came over to fight in the great war and build the railways did they? You're comments are so inaccurate it's just not worth debating with you.

 

[User removed 4]

I appreciate what you are saying old boy but unless such incidents can be backed up on fact base then your argument falls into heresay - no?

You can say that about literally anything that people base opinions on, how many on here who happily slate " knuckle dragging EDL morons" have actually been present on a march to back up their statements ? And someone i work with lives near Dale Farm , and she is who I get my facts from.

 

[Simster]

how many on here who happily slate " knuckle dragging EDL morons" have actually been present on a march to back up their statements ?

I literally ran right past an EDL march in London (near Vauxhall bridge) as they marched towards the houses of parliament. As I was running in the direction they were marching I obviously got to Westminster first, where a bunch of protesters were waiting for them (safely behind a huge police corden, presumably at the tax payers expense). I can safely say that both groups lived up to their sterotypes an absolute treat, especially the EDL mongs who looked and sounded like meat headed twats to a man, one of whom was not only wearing a Rangers top but was also waving a Rangers flag.

 

[Screaming J]

The Daily Mash - Dale Farm eviction brings out best in everyone

 

[Scampi]

So these Irish travellers came over to fight in the great war and build the railways did they? You're comments are so inaccurate it's just not worth debating with you.

Sorry mate but he's right. Thats the origins of the Irish travelling community in mainland Britain.