[Other Sport] Cycling geeks

[Tyrone Biggums]

I'm glad Clarke did what he did, I'm glad Matthews was looking back to get Sky onto his back wheel to help with pacing for a short stint.

In the end Aussie cycling will be the biggest winner out of this. Parents will look at that kind of act and view the sport as one they want their kids in rather than view it as a sport that previously was the domain of cheats.

 

[Indurain's Lungs]

Bold is right, you could have both "punished" and embraced the good PR.

There is a slippery slope argument as this is on the same spectrum as people who buy races from each other. However, as there are so many things that go unpunished there should have been a smaller time penalty (20 seconds or so) and a clear indication that this would be fully sanctioned in the future - riders would then be clear on where they stand.

Everyone is blaming the UCI and the Giro but they have done the right thing in making the race commisaires "arms length" from them. The tinkering in Armstrong's positive tests has shown that the UCI shouldn't get involved in individual situations and only issue general rules and regulations.

I've just noticed Porte's team mate was stood there watching the whole thing! Give him your wheel and let Clarke pace him back to the bunch, there'd be no come back to that! Porte has never struck me as the sharpest tool in the box though.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I've just noticed Porte's team mate was stood there watching the whole thing! Give him your wheel and let Clarke pace him back to the bunch, there'd be no come back to that! Porte has never struck me as the sharpest tool in the box though.

Well he is from Launceston...

 

[Stat Brother]

Well he is from Launceston...

Never heard of the place but that still made me laugh.

Yes I agree on the face of it 2 minutes is a harsh penalty, and that's where some common sense could be applied.

But this is the beauty of Grand Tours.
What's massive today is going to be a footnote in 10 days time.

One way or another they'll be plenty more than 2 minutes separating Porte Aru and Contador by the end of the race.
2 minutes won't change Sky's tactics, it just makes the race even more interesting between now and the high mountains.

 

[Pantani]

Never heard of the place but that still made me laugh.

Yes I agree on the face of it 2 minutes is a harsh penalty, and that's where some common sense could be applied.

But this is the beauty of Grand Tours.
What's massive today is going to be a footnote in 10 days time.

One way or another they'll be plenty more than 2 minutes separating Porte Aru and Contador by the end of the race.
2 minutes won't change Sky's tactics, it just makes the race even more interesting between now and the high mountains.

2 minutes have changed Sky's tactics massively. Porte has had a watching brief all Giro so far. Hold the wheel's of Aru and Contador until the TT, when he would expect to overtake them on GC. Then hold the lead in classic Sky mountain train style deterring any attacks.

Now Porte has to attack, Sky need to up the pace earlier in stages as he needs to gain time both in the mountains and on the TT. Trying to do that against the Astana mega train will be very very difficult, in my opinion. I thought Porte looked favourite up until yesterday, now he will do really well to even podium.

 

[Indurain's Lungs]

2 minutes have changed Sky's tactics massively. Porte has had a watching brief all Giro so far. Hold the wheel's of Aru and Contador until the TT, when he would expect to overtake them on GC. Then hold the lead in classic Sky mountain train style deterring any attacks.

Now Porte has to attack, Sky need to up the pace earlier in stages as he needs to gain time both in the mountains and on the TT. Trying to do that against the Astana mega train will be very very difficult, in my opinion. I thought Porte looked favourite up until yesterday, now he will do really well to even podium.

I agree. It's the Sky speciality to gain time in a TT and then defend. Porte won't get all that time back now - if it was a straight shoot out between him and Contador then there's an outside chance but Aru will either be with Porte or working with Contador.

 

[The Birdman]

So far nearly 600 Bikers signed up and are ready for the late rush to book for the great bike 31/05/2015 www.hhbikeride.co.uk depending on the weather.

 

[Stat Brother]

2 minutes have changed Sky's tactics massively. Porte has had a watching brief all Giro so far. Hold the wheel's of Aru and Contador until the TT, when he would expect to overtake them on GC. Then hold the lead in classic Sky mountain train style deterring any attacks.

Now Porte has to attack, Sky need to up the pace earlier in stages as he needs to gain time both in the mountains and on the TT. Trying to do that against the Astana mega train will be very very difficult, in my opinion. I thought Porte looked favourite up until yesterday, now he will do really well to even podium.

Fair enough, that makes more sense than me.
Although I still don't see it quite so gloomy for Porte by the end of next week.

 

[1066familyman]

I don't see how the commissaires had any choice but to punish Porte to be honest.

It's all very well citing example of sticky bottles, teams and nations doing deals and forming 'cartels' etc but has anyone actually seen a blatant incident like this between two DIFFERENT team mates take place before? Just seems like a bizarre thing to do in those set of circumstances, and like SB says, where does this 'sportsmanship' end? Share a bidon with a breakaway companion from a different team, offer food or drink to a team mate within the last kms exclusion zone ( Froome incident)...all perfectly logical, and the former allowed, but this blatant exhibition of Aussie mates scenario is just odd. WC races may see trade team mates sometimes helping with tatics for another nation, but they'd draw the line at actually offering up a wheel in a mechanical scenario because, well, they just ain't that stupid are they.

I think two minutes is a bit harsh to be fair, but perhaps they just wanted to set an example.

Yes it totally changes Sky tactics for the race. Yes it's harsh on Porte, but boy doesn't it make an already really exciting race even more exciting now that Sky can't rely on their usual cycling equivalent of parking the bus!

 

[Stat Brother]

I don't see how the commissaires had any choice but to punish Porte to be honest.

It's all very well citing example of sticky bottles, teams and nations doing deals and forming 'cartels' etc but has anyone actually seen a blatant incident like this between two DIFFERENT team mates take place before? Just seems like a bizarre thing to do in those set of circumstances, and like SB says, where does this 'sportsmanship' end? Share a bidon with a breakaway companion from a different team, offer food or drink to a team mate within the last kms exclusion zone ( Froome incident)...all perfectly logical, and the former allowed, but this blatant exhibition of Aussie mates scenario is just odd. WC races may see trade team mates sometimes helping with tatics for another nation, but they'd draw the line at actually offering up a wheel in a mechanical scenario because, well, they just ain't that stupid are they.

I think two minutes is a bit harsh to be fair, but perhaps they just wanted to set an example.

Yes it totally changes Sky tactics for the race. Yes it's harsh on Porte, but boy doesn't it make an already really exciting race even more exciting now that Sky can't rely on their usual cycling equivalent of parking the bus!

It would seem Sean Kelly agrees.

 

[Bold Seagull]

2mins isn't just harsh, its ridiculous.

Why this offence is punished so severely compared to so many other breaches of the rules just has everyone head scratching.

I agree, if it's against the rules you can't just let it go because it looks a bit sporting, but the punishment just seems so out of proportion.

 

[1066familyman]

2mins isn't just harsh, its ridiculous.

Why this offence is punished so severely compared to so many other breaches of the rules just has everyone head scratching.

I agree, if it's against the rules you can't just let it go because it looks a bit sporting, but the punishment just seems so out of proportion.

2 minutes is actually quite clearly stated in the rules and there is already one other incident where this was enforced with Romain Sicard in Tour de Avelin.
Helping mates from other teams in racing scenarios is one thing, note Matthews wasn't punished for waiting up to pace Porte because it's totally different to offering full on mechanical support like giving up your wheel as if you're a bloody domestique of the rider you're helping! If what Clark and Porte did was to go unpunished then it would open up a massive can of worms! Work for who you like, ala Euskatel for Bert. the Tiralongo example etc, not technically allowed but good luck trying to enforce laws about open racing situations. Actually giving up your wheel to a rider on another team though It's comical really that anyone could even think this should be allowed. Doesn't have me scratching my head.
Sky need to take a good hard look at themselves at how their only serious GC contender could even find himself so isolated.

 

[Indurain's Lungs]

2 minutes is actually quite clearly stated in the rules and there is already one other incident where this was enforced with Romain Sicard in Tour de Avelin.
Helping mates from other teams in racing scenarios is one thing, note Matthews wasn't punished for waiting up to pace Porte because it's totally different to offering full on mechanical support like giving up your wheel as if you're a bloody domestique of the rider you're helping! If what Clark and Porte did was to go unpunished then it would open up a massive can of worms! Work for who you like, ala Euskatel for Bert. the Tiralongo example etc, not technically allowed but good luck trying to enforce laws about open racing situations. Actually giving up your wheel to a rider on another team though [emoji38]ol: It's comical really that anyone could even think this should be allowed. Doesn't have me scratching my head.
Sky need to take a good hard look at themselves at how their only serious GC contender could even find himself so isolated.

Of course he should be punished but 2 minutes is maybe a bit excessive.

And he wasn't isolated, he had a team mate stood there - just stupid.

 

[1066familyman]

Of course he should be punished but 2 minutes is maybe a bit excessive.

And he wasn't isolated, he had a team mate stood there - just stupid.

There's a sound counter argument that says 2 minutes got him off lightly. He could have lost even more time because Sky may well have taken longer to get help Actually, I tend to agree that 2 minutes can seem harsh as he was already losing time to misfortune.
But it's a very dangerous situation, having other teams acting as full on domestiques, that if not clamped down on hard could lead to all sorts of dodgy scenarios of teams buying off other teams for additional mechanical support. Can you imagine if giving up wheels or bikes to other teams became the norm. Racing deals are done all the time, we all know that, but full mechanical support is on a whole new level.
I'm still shaking my head that this incident even happened. It's just crazy! The only other incident was because Sicard was in the French A team and took a wheel from French B team rider in Tour Dr Avenir- it cost him 2 minutes and meant he ended up winning GC by only 1 second, so nearly cost
him the race!
Shit happens in racing that means misfortune can cost you a race, but taking wheels from riders on other teams is no answer. Having thought about it , since my original post, I don't even think disqualification could be argued against really for this scenario. This situation just can't be allowed to happen, however much Porte seems like the unfortunate victim here.

 

[1066familyman]

Btw, the team mate just stood there because he was needed to pace him back on no doubt. Should have still been at least 3 there even with a shit decision to waste the rest trying to lead out Viviani for a stage win that wasn't going to happen. Poor poor tactics all round to leave a GC man so exposed to danger.

 

[Stat Brother]

Oh and going back a conversation.

Strava challenges my riding.

But more importantly than that:-
Strava keeps my head out of the fridge, when I get back from a ride.

For that I'm eternally grateful.

 

[Indurain's Lungs]

Just watching some Giro in miserable conditions, listening to them reel off whats coming up over the next week. Brutal stuff, is it any wonder most of the top TdF guys don't ride it with only 5 weeks to recover.

 

[Indurain's Lungs]

Looking at this review

http://road.cc/content/review/152372-schwalbe-one-tubeless

This has to be the future. With them available around 30 quid there doesn't seem to be a down side versus clinchers.

 

[1066familyman]

Poor old Porte isn't having a lot of luck is he. Got to feel for the bloke.

I'm half tempted to question why Bert manages to get away twice as quick and limit his loses from a bike write off in exactly the same crash, but no point kicking a man when he's down.

That's definitely his Giro GC over now. Stages win only now, starting with tomorrow's TT, and then maybe even dip out early and concentrate on being a stronger insurance plan/number 2 should it go tits up for Froome at TdF.

 

[Stat Brother]

Poor old Porte isn't having a lot of luck is he. Got to feel for the bloke.

I'm half tempted to question why Bert manages to get away twice as quick and limit his loses from a bike write off in exactly the same crash, but no point kicking a man when he's down.

That's definitely his Giro GC over now. Stages win only now, starting with tomorrow's TT, and then maybe even dip out early and concentrate on being a stronger insurance plan/number 2 should it go tits up for Froome at TdF.

The Podcast chaps reminded me of something I noticed, but promptly forgot during 2 minutesgate.

Even in the failed attempted to be paced back to the peloton, Porte couldn't hold the wheel in front.
How many times have we seen a favourite, in that situation, blast off in front of the train?
Porte was always a length down on whoever was in front.