Crisis for Cameron & the Conservatives.

[Leekbrookgull]

Looks as if the 'promised' referendum on 'Lisbon' is scrapped (thats if you ever believed there was to be one ? ) I will vote in '10' however looks almost certain for a 'minor' party.

 

[Preston Parker]

More spin than Mushy

 

[clapham_gull]

Trust the Tories to get their knickers in a twist over Europe, when will they ever learn ?

 

[Don Quixote]

They need to learn we need Europe or we go down the drain. Well we need Europe if we want to stay as an economic power.

 

[looney]

when after a couple of years in government and cameroon gets knifed and replaced by a real conservative.

 

[beorhthelm]

its not really a crisis, its just some rabble rousing from anti-euro quater so that they get some other concession instead. they know full well that by the time of the next election, the EU constitution will be ratified and probably the President and Foreign Minister appointed, so a vote against it would be utterly pointless, you cant un-ratify it.

shame those in Labour who are against closer Federal europe haven't had the courage to step forward the past 15 years.

 

[looney]

They need to learn we need Europe or we go down the drain. Well we need Europe if we want to stay as an economic power.

you mean like norway?

 

[looney]

, so a vote against it would be utterly pointless, you cant un-ratify it.

Oh but you can.

 

[disgruntled h blocker]

you mean like norway?

That's a little different really! Norway has considerably more oil / gas reserves than the UK which is the basis of their economy with other resources such as metal extraction.

Also, Norways population is something like 9million, unlike the UK's 61million...

 

[looney]

That's a little different really! Norway has considerably more oil / gas reserves than the UK which is the basis of their economy with other resources such as metal extraction.

Also, Norways population is something like 9million, unlike the UK's 61million...

Yes exactly, we have a fully diversified economy AND a far larger population which means it should be a lot easier to go it alone.

Can you think of one country getting into difficulties by staying out of an economic/political block?

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Over the last 30 years, the realisation that we need Europe dawns on every elected UK PM when they get into power.

True of Thatcher, Major, Blair and soon Cameron. They may play to the Eurosceptic gallery during a general election but once elected, they know it would be economically suicidal to follow that route. Only difference with Cameron is that the realisation has started to come many months early...

 

[Pavilionaire]

Good move. By scrapping the referendum because events have moved on too far it begs the question how Labour, the party of government for 12 years, have managed to avoid keeping their own commitment to a referendum.

Cameron would do well to accept the inevitability of Europe and deal with dissenters behind closed doors so that a united front can be presented come the election.

 

[looney]

Over the last 30 years, the realisation that we need Europe dawns on every elected UK PM when they get into power.

True of Thatcher, Major, Blair and soon Cameron. They may play to the Eurosceptic gallery during a general election but once elected, they know it would be economically suicidal to follow that route. Only difference with Cameron is that the realisation has started to come many months early...

Meanwhile in the real world.......

There are trade policies that the UK could happily sign up to if opperated properly, but because of the disparities between the UK and Continental europe their are policies that would be suicidal to sign up to.

The obvious ones are a single currency and an exchange rate, this is because are business cycles are out of stnc with them because so much of our trade and investment is with other countries.

Another slow suicide is an open border Policy. Because english is the global langauge and our history of empire means a large amount who make it into the EU will head here, this is compounded by our high population density. It is to put bluntly unsustainable.

Cameron said, or William hague said...

"Cameron would set out details of a new policy on Europe on Wednesday.........It is believed he could pledge to repatriate some powers from Europe and hold a referendum on any future treaty. "
BBC NEWS | Politics | Tories rule out treaty referendum

It is the human rights act and the open borders policies that will be repatriated. To most tories they are both un palatable and more is the point untenable in the medium to long term.

Take this from someone who used to be a member of the Tory party, its not just a case of not liking the policies, its a case of beleiving them to be dangerous and destructive to the UK.

If it can engineer into a crisis that propells us out of the EU and into a withdrawl and renegotiate situation then in my opion I hope so.

But what I stated above is the bare minimum you can expect.

 

[looney]

Good move. By scrapping the referendum because events have moved on too far it begs the question how Labour, the party of government for 12 years, have managed to avoid keeping their own commitment to a referendum.

Cameron would do well to accept the inevitability of Europe and deal with dissenters behind closed doors so that a united front can be presented come the election.

Its no longer about ditching Lisbon, the tories know this. Its about moving on to the next stage by getting opt outs. i hope the eurostalinists dig their feet in causing a diplomatic/constitutional crisis and we can then leave and "re-enter" on different terms. By then Obama will be humbled in the Midterms and we could get a supportive ally in the US.

 

[beorhthelm]

Over the last 30 years, the realisation that we need Europe dawns on every elected UK PM when they get into power.

we might need trade with Europe, but not the undemocratic federal united states of europe they keep being marched towards. if theres one policy Brown got right, it was the fudging of his tests so we didnt join the Euro.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Well,i like the way we live in a DEMOCRATIC ?? state,yet we don't get a vote !

 

[Pavilionaire]

It's all a load of bollocks. The EU is now twice the size it was when Labour came to power, and the reality is Brussels already makes three-quarters of the legislation. Better to be on the inside shaping policy than on the outside reacting to it.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

we might need trade with Europe, but not the undemocratic federal united states of europe they keep being marched towards. if theres one policy Brown got right, it was the fudging of his tests so we didnt join the Euro.

Yes, I think that's all spot on!

 

[Leekbrookgull]

& Pavilion,what policy could that be ? A European army ? Give back the Falklands ? The list is endless.

 

[Winker]

They used to say of banana republics in africa that democracy consisted of one man, one vote, once. That can now also be said of the EU as we have only ever had one vote on it and that was 34 years ago, no-one under 52 years of age in this country has ever been consulted on anything that our governments have done in our name. The Tories have shown their true colours now as part of the illiberal-left conspiracy that is destroying us as a nation state.