Colston Four Cleared

[Hugo Rune]

Path of resistance: a timeline of protest against Edward Colston
Key dates, from a clergyman speaking out in 1921 to the 2022 trial verdict that cleared protesters

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/05/colston-timeline-of-protest-against-one-slave-trader

It’s all about ‘being on the right side of history.’

Even the Bristolian Society of Merchant Venturers (a sinister group of highly influential, wealthy, elderly, mainly white & male power brokers) who did so much to ‘long grass’ the removal of the statue and water down the wording of a plaque that was meant to inform people of Colston’s hideous atrocities now admit their efforts were ‘inappropriate’.

https://www.merchantventurers.com/news/statement-from-the-society-of-merchant-venturers/

 

[Acker79]

[tweet]1478776067447996417[/tweet]

 

[clapham_gull]

Some Bristolians,.. a politically active minority, most of them transient students at the university and colleges.... 700k people in Bristol,...

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

A politically active minority took sledgehammers to the Berlin Wall.

 

[clapham_gull]

Perhaps the CPS should not have pushed for a criminal conviction of the remaining four considering some people are now saying criminal damage can be justified.

There was political pressure to do so and a “chilling abuse of power” according to the police themselves.

Reading around this tonight, (I'd forgotten about most it) yesterday's verdict shouldn't have come of much of a surprise and the police appear quite "relieved" at the outcome.

After the politicisation of the police in the 1980s, I'm not sure most forces want to get dragged into the "culture wars" and be seen as agents of the Government and/or get into a public spat.

That also goes for policing under New Labour by the way, where the police were asked to do some ridiculous things under the guise of "fighting terrorism".

As a local I was appalled at their behaviour at the Clapham Common vigil / protest. However they were somewhat thrown under a bus after being encouraged behind the scenes to come down hard on public gatherings, only to witness the support disappear into thin air after the event and the public reaction.

Politicians can move on from their little victories and supportive tabloid headlines but the police have to pick up the pieces (sometimes for decades) of the long term damage to public confidence in them.

See also the Judiciary and The Border Force.

 

[clapham_gull]

This now means that anyone can damage anything and justify it based on this case.

They can try but if charged they would still have to convince a jury it wasn't criminal damage based on the facts placed before them.

 

[clapham_gull]

That's the question, is criminal damage simply criminal damage in the eyes of the law.

Not if you can argue (under the law) it wasn't.

Slippery slope if criminal damage becomes excusable if a person believes it to be justified.

Crown Court trials don’t set precedents.

If an act is criminal damage then it should remain criminal damage whether or not an individual or group believe the criminal damage is justified.

That wasn't their defence. They certainly damaged the statue but their defence argued it wasn't criminal. The jury agreed.

 

[clapham_gull]

This case does set a precedent

No it doesn't, not in law.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Clearly the prosecution were incredibly unlucky ... what are the odds of finding 12 Guardian readers on a jury?




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[maltaseagull]

Common sense prevails. Correct outcome.[/QUOTE
So, they did not remove the statue and roll it into the sea?

It never happened?

I agree that the statue should have been removed but that is not the issue.

The correct outcome, someone else suggested, would be a guilty verdict and a 1p fine.

 

[maltaseagull]

Sometimes things are justified. The Suffragettes caused criminal damage, but the cause was right.

Didn't the Suffragettes go to prison?

 

[Guinness Boy]

It's an interesting aside that NSC will immediately ban any Palace fan who still misunderstands on here that Lewis Dunk was cleared of all charges in his case.

Why does a minority of NSC think it's ok to continue to misrepresent these cleared defendants? They are Not Guilty. End of.

 

[beorhthelm]

Not if you can argue (under the law) it wasn't.



Crown Court trials don’t set precedents.



That wasn't their defence. They certainly damaged the statue but their defence argued it wasn't criminal. The jury agreed.

its not a technically a precedent, but it will be refered to as in future cases. it does muddy the water for what constitutes criminal damage, if you can convince a jury the damage is justified, it isnt criminal.

 

[Jim in the West]

its not a technically a precedent, but it will be refered to as in future cases. it does muddy the water for what constitutes criminal damage, if you can convince a jury the damage is justified, it isnt criminal.

Except that the new Police & Crime Bill brings in a maximum sentence of 10 years for damaging a monument. As it's been pointed out, in future you can be more severely punished for defacing a statue, than being convicted of rape (where the starting point is 5 years). Perhaps an interesting insight into the way this government thinks.

 

[el punal]

And before someone pops along to bitch about the outrage of people trying to rewrite history....they weren't. They were binning a statue they had repeatedly asked to have consigned, with damned good reason, to a museum.

Mind you, there are quite a few ‘football’ statues that have been binned. Nothing to do with history though, just that they were crap - I give you Ronaldo’s grinning monstrosity and the Ted Bates’s Jimmy Krankie offering for starters. I’m sure that there are dozens more.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

A grave stone is a burial mark, a memorial bench something personal. A statue is a celebration of someone, a call to homage. Very different.

"Two wrongs don't make one right"

Okay, so if I come across a statue, who I do not believe to be a hero or thought they may have been a very naughty boy.


So I can damage and remove the statue without any criminal damages........................game on then.


It's this sort of judgment that will see repeat offending. No doubt they are being plotted as we speak.

Isn't this one rule for them a different rule for everyone else scenario?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Weren’t you celebrating mob handed action in Hastings stopping the life boats being launched to help the migrant boats the other week?

I’m sure everyone who reads your posts will be stunned to discover your hypocrisy.

No I didn't, what a limp wristed response to the topic being discussed LMFAO, let's have more damage too statues by mob handed middle class students eh


Regards
DF

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Didn't the Suffragettes go to prison?

Yes.

Did the Brighton fans who broke the goalposts to get rid of Archer & Belotti go to prison?

A jury, in a court of law, has found these 4 defendants, not guilty of criminal damage. That is a fact. It hasn’t set a precedent, just a decision based on fact.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

"Two wrongs don't make one right"

Okay, so if I come across a statue, who I do not believe to be a hero or thought they may have been a very naughty boy.


So I can damage and remove the statue without any criminal damages........................game on then.


It's this sort of judgment that will see repeat offending. No doubt they are being plotted as we speak.

Isn't this one rule for them a different rule for everyone else scenario?

Yes yes yes ! It's so obvious but as I said mouldy you're dealing with the wrong people, it's concerning to say the least that others will just see this decision as a green light for further 'actions'

Regards
DF

 

[Jim in the West]

No I didn't, what a limp wristed response to the topic being discussed LMFAO, let's have more damage too statues by mob handed middle class students eh


Regards
DF

Oh dear - it’s a crime being middle class now?!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

"Two wrongs don't make one right"

Okay, so if I come across a statue, who I do not believe to be a hero or thought they may have been a very naughty boy.


So I can damage and remove the statue without any criminal damages........................game on then.


It's this sort of judgment that will see repeat offending. No doubt they are being plotted as we speak.

Isn't this one rule for them a different rule for everyone else scenario?

Every case in a court of law is based on the facts of that case, and that case only. But then you know that.