Clearing the tents - about time too!

[e77]

With the guys at the very top perhaps. But I doubt they'd last very long if they kept losing their clients' money. And if you are making your clients £10 million a year for example, then it stands to reason that you should get a million or so of that yourself. If you are teaching kids in a school, why should you get a million quid for it? I'm not suggesting that any teachers are saying that they should, but if a banker is making his clients £10 million a year, why should he only be paid £30K a year for it?

Surely it stands to reason that the more money you make for your company, the more money they pay you?

Also they pay a lot of tax (certainly it funded a lot of the boom under Labour). However this is no good if every once a while you take the financial system to the brink of collapse leading to the worst recession since the great depression.

Communism had it's go and failed so capitalism doesn't need scrapping. However, it does need reforming.

 

[Commander]

Also they pay a lot of tax (certainly it funded a lot of the boom under Labour). However this is no good if every once a while you take the financial system to the brink of collapse leading to the worst recession since the great depression.

Communism had it's go and failed so capitalism doesn't need scrapping. However, it does need reforming.

Absolutely, I don't think anyone is suggesting that it doesn't need some kind of reform.

 

[BadFish]

Instead of envying the wealthy, why not consider the American approach of seeing them as role models and figuring out how to emulate them.

So bankers earn too much money and you don't?

Well one obvious solution is to choose banking and finance as your career path.

Stop complaining. Get out there and see how you can equal their achievements and wealth. There are no rules that I am aware of which bar certain people from entering the world of banking.

http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats

How about these people liing in poverty across the world, how do they 'choose' a career in banking?

 

[BadFish]

Yes I understand that, but my point is that whilst these guys do earn huge amounts of money, they don't sit around doing sod all all day, they work seriously hard for it. Seriously hard. Yet your average teacher who works 8am - 4pm (and yes I know they do lots of marking) and gets 10 weeks off a year seems to think that they are basically doing the same amount of work as them but getting a lot less for it. They aren't.

This guy very nearly lost his marriage because of his job, and the effect on his health was obvious. His family were begging him to do something else, they didn't care about the money after a while, they just wanted him back. But it's very hard to walk away from that king of money once you are earning it.

I know another one as well and he is a nightmare, he literally lives at his office, even when on holiday he is still working more or less 24/7. It's no life for someone who has a young kid, which he has. Sure, the rewards are massive, but I don't think it's worth it personally. Especially when you then have a heart attack and die at 45 and so don't ever get to enjoy it.



This is another thing that I never understand. You don't earn enough money? Do something about it. Start your own business. Make it happen. Cant do it because you don't have the confidence / flair for business? Well then why should you earn as much as somebody who does?



With the guys at the very top perhaps. But I doubt they'd last very long if they kept losing their clients' money. And if you are making your clients £10 million a year for example, then it stands to reason that you should get a million or so of that yourself. If you are teaching kids in a school, why should you get a million quid for it? I'm not suggesting that any teachers are saying that they should, but if a banker is making his clients £10 million a year, why should he only be paid £30K a year for it?

Surely it stands to reason that the more money you make for your company, the more money they pay you?

Absolutely does providing that money is the only thing we use to measure success.

In response to the first part of your argument I haven't heard anyone suggest that those people in city don't work hard. They do but aside from financial gain is what they work so hard at so much more important than a teacher or a nurse etc?

 

[Simon Morgan]

Still in my neck of the woods

 

[BadFish]

Absolutely, I don't think anyone is suggesting that it doesn't need some kind of reform.

But many are criticising those that are trying to make those reforms happen.

And I think some of them are suggesting it doesn't.

 

[Castello]

Obviously it is not as straightforward as that, but I always find it strange that people seem to think these guys in the City sit there doing nothing and getting paid loads of money for it, while the poor nurses, teachers etc work much harder for less reward. My Brother-in-law was an investment banker and probably earned a million quid a year, but f*** me did his company want a slice of his life for that. He used to get home at 2am and then get the 5am train back in to work again in the morning, and that was on a good day. On a bad day he slept in the pods they have in the office for when it was too busy for him to go home. He hardly ever saw his family and when he did he was too knackered to do anything with them. Could your average nurse or teacher do that job? No way. I know I couldn't.

Taking you strictly at your word and assuming your brother in law did indeed work every minute of his life for his employer this would mean that he would be earning 114.47 per hour for his million pounds a year. Now in London a nurse works 37.5 hours a week. 37.5 x 114.47 x 52 weeks is an annual salary of £223214.29.

below is the pay scales for salaried staff in the NHS. Most nurses would be on band 4, 5 or 6 with a few specialist nurses reaching band 7.

http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/233901/003303.pdf

So taking your somewhat nonsensical argument literally, if your brother in law had started working the same hours as nurses he would still be earning at least five and a half times as much as the best paid nurse. This is removing any moral arguments from the value of their jobs to society. Whilst the differential would be lower, you could apply the same argument to any public sector worker that isn't a very senior manager or civil servant.

This does indeed prove that nurses, teachers and public sector workers work at least as hard as bankers for significantly less money.

I could go on about who the public would miss more a teacher/nurse or a banker, but I think we both know the answer to that one.

 

[Ex-Staffs Gull]

http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats

How about these people liing in poverty across the world, how do they 'choose' a career in banking?

Very true, but then you are talking about a global redistribution of wealth and the forcing of governments of many of these countries to invest in infrastructure in the rural areas and poorer cities. This isn't going to happen in India or China as they are focusing on building a strong service driven economy at major hubs. This is how most European and American countries achieved their level of living standards.

The trouble is that if you sit back and look at / understand what true Communism is saying, it is a brilliantly simple idea, but People, ego and power will always get in the way. If you equal out the distribution of money, human nature will find something else to value achievement by, mostly power and influence.

BTW I wasn't suggesting you were a communist

 

[BadFish]

Very true, but then you are talking about a global redistribution of wealth and the forcing of governments of many of these countries to invest in infrastructure in the rural areas and poorer cities. This isn't going to happen in India or China as they are focusing on building a strong service driven economy at major hubs. This is how most European and American countries achieved their level of living standards.

The trouble is that if you sit back and look at / understand what true Communism is saying, it is a brilliantly simple idea, but People, ego and power will always get in the way. If you equal out the distribution of money, human nature will find something else to value achievement by, mostly power and influence.

BTW I wasn't suggesting you were a communist

it isn't about making things equal, it is about making the gap narrower for the good of all.

http://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson.html