[Misc] Christians seem to be really good people

[Bold Seagull]

Following 'Ideal World' they returned to form with 'Harvest for the World', but I can't say I have heard a lot from them since.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I went to see the Book of Mormon on Friday and they all seemed nice.

 

[5Ways Gull]

I married a Christian. She f***ed a bloke at her work and gave me the clap.

Was it one of those vicars mentioned in the previous post?

 

[Blues Guitarist]

He's given us free will.
God created us because he wanted to have a relationship with us, but we are not robots. We can choose God or we can reject him, but there are consequences to rejecting him.

You say he's given us free will, but if we choose to exercise it and not have a relationship with him we are condemed to eternal damnation. So not quite so "free", is it?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Where I think the religious do have some right to feel frustrated, is that there’s an immediate belief that if you publicly identify with a religion, that you flawlessly follow all of its precepts without fail.

Most religions are quite specific that humans are fallible, and actively accept those whose behaviour falls a long way short of that proscribed by their religion. The qualities of mercy and forgiveness feature quite highly in many organized religions.

However, that is precisely why I cannot agree with the OPs initial statement, christians are no better or worse than those of any other (or no) religion.

My objection to most organized religions is that they make no efforts to distinguish between genuine repentant sinners, and those who are holding their religion like a kite shield, in an effort to hold off the consequences of their ongoing poor behaviour that benefits them at the expense of others.

Is that "Do as I say not what I do?"

Forgiveness as we are fallible does not appear to be an exacting doctrine that @kuzushi religion/belief promotes.

The moral standards that we uphold do not need to be related to any religion.

I find too many following any religion are bigots.

 

[Blues Guitarist]

But scholars have determined that it's not made up. And when I say scholars, I don't mean just believers. Even the sceptics accept that Jesus was a real person who was crucified, and even go as far as saying that his followers genuinely believed that he rose from the dead, Bart Ehrman being a prime example of such a sceptic.

Many scholars (but not all) do indeed think there was a real person called Jesus who was crucified, and that some of his followers believed that he rose from the dead. But that does not validate the Christian religion.

You invoke the scholarship of Bart Ehrman. Does Dr Ehrman beileve that Jesus was the Son if God? No, he doesn't. According to Ehrman, Jesus did not call himself God or consider himself to be God.

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

Andrew Tate also promotes himself as a god botherer. Speaks volumes to me.

 

[kuzushi]

Is that "Do as I say not what I do?"

Forgiveness as we are fallible does not appear to be an exacting doctrine that @kuzushi religion/belief promotes.

The moral standards that we uphold do not need to be related to any religion.

I find too many following any religion are bigots.

If that's the impression you have got then I haven't done a good job of conveying the message of the gospel. The whole point of the gospel is that God is desperate to be able to forgive us. So desperate that Jesus came in human form to die so that we would not have to suffer the ultimate consequences of sin. God has given us a way to be atoned, the ball is now in our court to respond.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

If you reject him, he will reject you.

If that's the impression you have got then I haven't done a good job of conveying the message of the gospel. The whole point of the gospel is that God is desperate to be able to forgive us. So desperate that Jesus came in human form to die so that we would not have to suffer the ultimate consequences of sin. God has given us a way to be atoned, the ball is now in our court to respond.

OK not much forgiveness in your first quote.

I was told that by a vicar that if you're not religious God will still take you when you curl your toes up.

If that is the case why bother devoting any time believing when you can be out enjoying the short time we have on the planet?

 

[BadFish]

If that's the impression you have got then I haven't done a good job of conveying the message of the gospel. The whole point of the gospel is that God is desperate to be able to forgive us. So desperate that Jesus came in human form to die so that we would not have to suffer the ultimate consequences of sin. God has given us a way to be atoned, the ball is now in our court to respond.

What is he forgiving us for?

Is that a two way street also?

 

[1066familyman]

Nah they might be decent people but they're still just a member of a cult like all other religion's. It baffles me billions of people still believe in "god"

The God concept has been in every single human culture since time began. Clear proof that human beings are not just physical beings. We are all made up of mind, body and soul. We are therefore clearly spiritual beings.

What baffles me is why Western secular societies are increasingly rejecting our spiritual self in the blind obedience to Science.

 

[kuzushi]

Many scholars (but not all) do indeed think there was a real person called Jesus who was crucified, and that some of his followers believed that he rose from the dead. But that does not validate the Christian religion.

It validates it to the extent that Jesus was a real person who had followers and was crucified. It's also significant that even sceptical scholars such as Ehrman concede that those followers genuinely believed that they had seen Jesus alive after the crucifixion. For about 6 weeks. Ehrman admits that they all believed that they spent 6 weeks with Jesus post crucifixion, listening to him teaching them about the kingdom of God and whatnot. So how does one explain that? Group hallucination? I don't think that group hallucination is a thing. And then Paul later on separately had an encounter with Jesus while he was on his way to Damascus to have Christians arrested and imprisoned. It changed his life, and according to Bart Ehrman the history of the world.

You invoke the scholarship of Bart Ehrman. Does Dr Ehrman beileve that Jesus was the Son if God? No, he doesn't. According to Ehrman, Jesus did not call himself God or consider himself to be God.

I know. I did say that he was a sceptic.

 

[BadFish]

The God concept has been in every single human culture since time began. Clear proof that human beings are not just physical beings. We are all made up of mind, body and soul. We are therefore clearly spiritual beings.

What baffles me is why Western secular societies are increasingly rejecting our spiritual self in the blind obedience to Science.

What is your best example of this?

 

[Krafty]

Statement:

The goodness is in the person not the religion. Many ”religious” people (of all faiths) use their religion as a cloak to hide behind and a justification to behave really badly. The worst kind of f***ing hypocrite.

Example:

Andrew Tate also promotes himself as a god botherer. Speaks volumes to me.

 

[BadFish]

Following 'Ideal World' they returned to form with 'Harvest for the World', but I can't say I have heard a lot from them since.

I liked Hooverville, best song about a household appliance ever.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Group hallucination? I don't think that group hallucination is a thing.

Why not?

 

[BadFish]

And mine.

Mine too.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

It validates it to the extent that Jesus was a real person who had followers and was crucified. It's also significant that even sceptical scholars such as Ehrman concede that those followers genuinely believed that they had seen Jesus alive after the crucifixion. For about 6 weeks. Ehrman admits that they all believed that they spent 6 weeks with Jesus post crucifixion, listening to him teaching them about the kingdom of God and whatnot. So how does one explain that? Group hallucination? I don't think that group hallucination is a thing.

It is when they all agree to make it all up, to add kudos to an already embellished story.
That is how myths start.

And then Paul later on separately had an encounter with Jesus while he was on his way to Damascus to have Christians arrested and imprisoned. It changed his life, and according to Bart Ehrman the history of the world.

I know. I did say that he was a sceptic.

An American who is reading texts that have been altered countless times since they were written, by the Romans, The Catholic Church, The Church of England, etc etc etc. The same American who became an agnostic atheist after struggling with the philosophical problems of evil and suffering, he was not a sceptic he simply thought it was bollox.

 

[kuzushi]

It validates it to the extent that Jesus was a real person who had followers and was crucified. It's also significant that even sceptical scholars such as Ehrman concede that those followers genuinely believed that they had seen Jesus alive after the crucifixion. For about 6 weeks. Ehrman admits that they all believed that they spent 6 weeks with Jesus post crucifixion, listening to him teaching them about the kingdom of God and whatnot. So how does one explain that? Group hallucination? I don't think that group hallucination is a thing. And then Paul later on separately had an encounter with Jesus while he was on his way to Damascus to have Christians arrested and imprisoned. It changed his life, and according to Bart Ehrman the history of the world.

 

[dadams2k11]

So basically if you don't believe in God/Jesus then you're not going to heaven?

Where do we go then?

f*** going going to heaven, there's an whole universe to explore in the next life and I don't have to believe some one could turn water into wine to get there.