Child Benefit Changes

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

Good move as the money in most cases is not used for the children but goes into the general budget for the family.

ah yes but oldies like me still call it 'family allowence' anyhoo good point that it should be used for a hot meal a day, would it be too much of an infringement for the school to step in an say, provide a new pair of shoes if someone turns up with their toes stickin out of the front, for example. I speak from experience, growing up in Moulsecoombe during the 70's my mates used to turn up for school in wellies in June or football boots withe the studs removed, i won't tell you what I had to wear! When my son starts school i'd much prefer him to have a hot meal rather than a box of dairylea lunchafuckinbles

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

I think one of the reasons it's not been touched before is because of the difficulty in coming up with a fair system thats not going to cost more to administer than it saves.

Thats right. It's interesting that they've signed up for something that has these flaws. Think it is a good decision though

 

[Ken Newbury]

I will lose out on £134/month here myself and yes I will struggle financially until my mortgage finishes, but do agree that something has to be done to address the situation the country is currently in and so accept it. However any solution has to be fair which this isn't. As an example two earners in one household who earn say £45k and £10k = £55k will lose child benefit, while next door two earners both earning £40k each = £80k will keep it. How is that fair when they are already earning £25k more in the first place?

 

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

don't have three if you can't afford it then

but what if, taking everything into account you can afford them, because you are a decent hard working family who have contributed to society via your taxes for a number of years and have through hard work got yourself into a position where you earn above the national average, only then to be told after the children have been born that because you DO work hard we are taking away something that has been paid since the King was alive.

 

[magoo]

Fair point and one I agree with in an ideal world. What should happen about "mistakes" and people that DO have children they can't afford ? Should that child suffer as a consequence ?

In this day and age should children still be being born by mistake? Should we be mollycoddling morons? Mistakes are only made through stupidity, ignorance or laziness, so we have to invest the money in sex education, even financial education, not state hand outs. Stop the 'mistakes' before they're even made. Ok there are always exceptions to the rule such as children born through rape but i'm sure that doesn't happen terribly much.

Another thing, as a single person with no children I am already paying for other peoples mistakes with my council tax!!

 

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

Another thing, as a single person with no children I am already paying for other peoples mistakes with my council tax!!

(I don't know you so i'm treading carefully here) Your circumstances may change I didn't have my son until I was 42. we were the typical DINKS until then. but you ARE involved in this as you were a child once yourself

 

[ROSM]

but do agree that something has to be done to address the situation the country is currently in and so accept it.

But that something that has to be done needs to be open and fair. The cuts being proposed are driven not by necessity (the plan put forward by Darling has been proven already to have been working and viable) but by a wish to put forward a tory ideology. we'll see how this goes when all the announcements come out. The big pointer here is that these cuts wont come in until 2013. If they necessity led they would be brought in now.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

we'll see how this goes when all the announcements come out.

it will kick off big time.

 

[magoo]

(I don't know you so i'm treading carefully here) Your circumstances may change I didn't have my son until I was 42. we were the typical DINKS until then. but you ARE involved in this as you were a child once yourself

Yes i'm fully aware i may have children in the future, but i'd like to think only if i'm in a position to financially and emotionally afford it.

What does me being a child once have anything to do with others receiving child benefit or me paying council tax for other people's children now though? If i have children, i'm happy to pay the council tax for them.

 

[DIFFBROOK]

Thin edge of a thick wedge. £44k now, its drip drip drip from now on. Next it will be £3ok and then £21k and the gone. Tory ideology has been and always will be to scrap the welfare state and rely on charities to pick up the pieces.

The alternative to this debt crisis? Well most of the £170bn (year on year) is cyclical i.e down to the economy, as the economy recovers i.e firms starting posting profits they will start to post taxes and as unemployment goes down dole payments are cut (although with about 1m public servants to be on the dole (25% cuts of public sector of 6m = around 1m) its hard to see unemployment going down).

The rest of the debt is structural (Labour too optimistic about growth) i.e £70bn. The inland revenue already have admitted that £40bn of taxes is not collected. So collect that tax (tax evasion is just as bad as frauding benefits) and you have saved £40bn of the £70bn debt)

The rest is saved by scrapping Trident. the biggest single waste of money there is. Something that will never be used, not independent (the Yanks have to service and store war heads which means they will not hand them over to us unless they want us to have them.......hardly independent) and if they are used, well we are doomed.

 

[Football_Friends]

Can't help but think your being a bit narrow minded here magoo. The old "i dot get it so don't wanna pay for it". You're no doubt claiming single occupancy so when you refer to already paying for it through your council tax, I can't help but think that others are subsidising your 25% discount and thinking the same. Why should your neighbour pay 25% more council tax than you?? As you said....if you can't afford it don't have it. Now I'm sure if this was taken away you could still afford your council tax, but wouldn't you be a bot disgruntled?? Especially if the new ideas were as flawed as this!

 

[BLOCK F]

It is an impossible task to please everybody when benefits are either dished out or taken away.There will always be some in receipt of benefits or not,who in others eyes are either deserving or non deserving.
This has happened under both political parties for God knows how long.Human nature generally says that if I lose my benefits it is wrong,but if somebody else does it is not so bad!
Bearing in mind that these cuts are supposed to help pay for the 'holy grail' of making work worthwhile and thus going some way towards doing away with the poverty trap,I reckon it is not all bad news!

 

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

Yes i'm fully aware i may have children in the future, but i'd like to think only if i'm in a position to financially and emotionally afford it.

What does me being a child once have anything to do with others receiving child benefit or me paying council tax for other people's children now though? If i have children, i'm happy to pay the council tax for them.

I'm not looking for a fight with you, I respect your point, all i'm saying is i'd like to think I'm in the catogary you mention in your first two lines. I haven't claimed any benefits in 25 years (i've been in the same job for 21 years, my wife has worked for the NHS for 26 years)so now though because we get off our arses and go to work we are likely to fall into the catogary that have this 'benefit' stopped.
my point about 'being a child once' i'm just trying to say that one way or another we've all benefited from it at some time in our lives

 

[Simster]

So if two joint earners are on £40K each the household still keeps it ?

That is not right at all

Well you voted for these idiots.

I'm not sure what I'm more angry about. The fact that the Tories are cutting everything that will affect the middle class families who pretty much pay for everything anyway (because they are a soft target), or the fact that the Liberal Democrats are letting them do it. Bunch of twats, I don't think I'll ever vote for them again, all the while Nick Clegg is leading them.

And as for IDS's "universal credit idea. He's too gutless to tell the electorate what the figures are. i.e. how much does he need to implement it, and how much it'll save. I also listened to him on 5 live and he was incredibly unconvincing.

 

[magoo]

Can't help but think your being a bit narrow minded here magoo. The old "i dot get it so don't wanna pay for it". You're no doubt claiming single occupancy so when you refer to already paying for it through your council tax, I can't help but think that others are subsidising your 25% discount and thinking the same. Why should your neighbour pay 25% more council tax than you?? As you said....if you can't afford it don't have it. Now I'm sure if this was taken away you could still afford your council tax, but wouldn't you be a bot disgruntled?? Especially if the new ideas were as flawed as this!

Fair point i do pay single occupancy i had forgotten about that. But i'm not being subsidised am i? I'm just paying less because i use far less resources. I don't have children going to school, i generate far less waste etc. I don't wish to seem narrow minded as i know things really aren't that simple but what spurred it on is the original thread subject, high earners claiming child benefit, then i thought should child benefit even exist for anyone?

 

[adrian29uk]

Well you voted for these idiots.

I'm not sure what I'm more angry about. The fact that the Tories are cutting everything that will affect the middle class families who pretty much pay for everything anyway (because they are a soft target), or the fact that the Liberal Democrats are letting them do it. Bunch of twats, I don't think I'll ever vote for them again, all the while Nick Clegg is leading them.

And as for IDS's "universal credit idea. He's too gutless to tell the electorate what the figures are. i.e. how much does he need to implement it, and how much it'll save. I also listened to him on 5 live and he was incredibly unconvincing.

I could not put it better about people for voting these idiots.
I will not forget what the Conservatives party did last time around, get ready for part 2 of the bumpy ride. Again hard working people are the ones that get screwed.

 

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

Bearing in mind that these cuts are supposed to help pay for the 'holy grail' of making work worthwhile and thus going some way towards doing away with the poverty trap,I reckon it is not all bad news!

I look forward to the day when technology can treat all these "bad backs" that stop people working for a lifetime that then prove to be hereditary (Sp?)

 

[Simster]

It is an impossible task to please everybody when benefits are either dished out or taken away.There will always be some in receipt of benefits or not,who in others eyes are either deserving or non deserving.
This has happened under both political parties for God knows how long.Human nature generally says that if I lose my benefits it is wrong,but if somebody else does it is not so bad!
Bearing in mind that these cuts are supposed to help pay for the 'holy grail' of making work worthwhile and thus going some way towards doing away with the poverty trap,I reckon it is not all bad news!

You appear to be doing a good job of missing the whole point of this thread, which comes as no surprise owing to your absurdly miopic view of politics. It's always Labour's fault in your eyes.

We all understand cuts have to be made because of the financial mismanagement of the past government, but how is it fair that in a family of 2 potential earners, the family with one income at £50k will not receive child benefit, whereas the family with two incomes at £40k will do so?

This is poorly thought through policy.

 

[Art Vs Science]

As far as i cam concerned anyone earning over £50,000 either through one parent or both should not get any kind of child benefit.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

The rest of the debt is structural (Labour too optimistic about growth) i.e £70bn. The inland revenue already have admitted that £40bn of taxes is not collected. So collect that tax (tax evasion is just as bad as frauding benefits) and you have saved £40bn of the £70bn debt)

The rest is saved by scrapping Trident. the biggest single waste of money there is. Something that will never be used, not independent (the Yanks have to service and store war heads which means they will not hand them over to us unless they want us to have them.......hardly independent) and if they are used, well we are doomed.

Hate this myth about uncollected tax. Every major economy has this, but if you wanted to collect it all then you have to spend more to collect than you would actually collect!!

While politicians will never really talk about it, Trident is more than just about defence. It's about keeping us in the big boys league for a little bit longer.