Cameron is playing a blinder

[sir danny cullip]

Massive public spending cuts will follow with the economically disadvantaged taking the brunt.

I know, lets increase public spending (and the massive government debt along with it) so that every youngster with any ambition to do well for themselves will be forced to pay 50% tax for the rest of their lives

 

[sir danny cullip]

Oh pull the other one.

He's an MP and the leader of a party. He's knows full well how the expenses systems works and will know full well the financial situation of all the top tories.

For him to all a sudden try and turn himself into some sort of moral superman doesn't wash with me at all.

It's easy for him to sack members of the shadow cabinet. Like all shadow cabinet, noboby knows who the hell they are.

Point one is completely irrelevant. So what if he knows the financial situation of his shadow cabinet? That is not the issue, system and usage of that system is the issue and Cameron has taken immediate action to prevent any tory MP abusing it in future. Gordon Brown hasn't taken the action required, people forget that there's a bloody lot of rich people on all sides of the house not just the tories.

He's not trying to be a moral superman, merely taken the required action to prevent any further abuse of the system. Would you prefer he did nothing or do the thing any half decent opposition would do and put pressure on the government to take the action he has?

It's actually not very easy at all to sack a member of the shadow cabinet, they are the head of the opposition and the very people he appointed to run this country with him so probably a very, very difficult decision to take. Their position is neither here nor there, if an MP has abused the system they should be made to suffer the consequences.

 

[clapham_gull]

Point one is completely irrelevant. So what if he knows the financial situation of his shadow cabinet? That is not the issue, system and usage of that system is the issue and Cameron has taken immediate action to prevent any tory MP abusing it in future. Gordon Brown hasn't taken the action required, people forget that there's a bloody lot of rich people on all sides of the house not just the tories.

He's not trying to be a moral superman, merely taken the required action to prevent any further abuse of the system. Would you prefer he did nothing or do the thing any half decent opposition would do and put pressure on the government to take the action he has?

It's actually not very easy at all to sack a member of the shadow cabinet, they are the head of the opposition and the very people he appointed to run this country with him so probably a very, very difficult decision to take. Their position is neither here nor there, if an MP has abused the system they should be made to suffer the consequences.

In one word "bollocks"

I never had any time for Blair and thankfully never voted for him, in fact I have little respect for the current political class full stop.

Cameron is quite simply a product of the Tories having absolutely no idea of how to get back into power other than simply copying the style of the ex-Prime Minister.

Installing a windmill on his Notting Hill home and riding a bike to work doesn't fool me fortunately.

Neither does claiming ignorance of the self serving behaivour that he's been a part of for years. Reforming the "nasty party", what utter utter shit. Claiming to have your moat cleaned speaks volumes of what that party really thinks of the electorate.

If Dave was so worried about it, why didn't he do something about it before ?

And don't tell me he didn't know. They all knew - it was quite simply how things were.

F*ck the lot of them.

 

[sir danny cullip]

F*ck the lot of them.

To a point I agree. The problem I have is that the main cases have come from the labour party and Gordon Brown has sat back and done bugger all about it. Cameron has taken action, if he had done nothing he would have been slaughtered whereas everyone seems to be so wound up in the problems to realise that the PM is doing NOTHING to sort it out.

 

[fire&skill]

Most people have ridden the Labour wave for the past ten years and as soon as the bubble starts to deflate a bit they panic - look at the worth of your house and the pound in your pocket - this is not Cameron's doing - vote Labour

 

[clapham_gull]

To a point I agree. The problem I have is that the main cases have come from the labour party and Gordon Brown has sat back and done bugger all about it. Cameron has taken action, if he had done nothing he would have been slaughtered whereas everyone seems to be so wound up in the problems to realise that the PM is doing NOTHING to sort it out.

It's far more difficult for the sitting Prime Minister to do anything.

It's easy for Cameron, no one has a clue who the opposition are, bare the odd high profile politician.

It's not even a party political issue, it's a problem with the political class.

Not sure where you get the idea that the Labour expenses claims are the worst ones. They are all up to it, except for a few indviduals.

 

[Dandyman]

I know, lets increase public spending (and the massive government debt along with it) so that every youngster with any ambition to do well for themselves will be forced to pay 50% tax for the rest of their lives

Serious question - how many people do you know that earn over 150K a year?

(By the way the top rate was 60% under Thatcher).

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

When I said that Cameron was playing a blinder, I was referring purely to his political nous. Obviously there's scepticism over his authenticity, particularly over the fact he didn't act until the shit hit the fan, but his words and actions to address the scandal within his party will play well with a lot of people. And what he is saying about the Tory selection lists, whatever the gimmickry involved or not, again will play well with the electorate. I have many, many qualms about the Conservatives forming a government (and qualms about this inept Labour government), but I have to admit, Cameron has seized the moment.

 

[sir danny cullip]

Serious question - how many people do you know that earn over 150K a year?

(By the way the top rate was 60% under Thatcher).

Probably about 15 or so but obviously I dont inquire into incomes during general conversation.

I'm not really talking about the 50% rate recently imposed but more the worrying precedent it appears to set, that taxes will rise as a result of the government debt.

The worry for young people like me is that we aren't looking at ways we can save on spending but rather increasing taxes. The government getting 40pence of the pound income tax is MORE than enough, that's not to mention the fags and booze. If they are needing more than that they need to look at themselves and how they can more efficiently spend the money NOT look back to the taxpayer and ask for more.

 

[Dandyman]

Probably about 15 or so but obviously I dont inquire into incomes during general conversation.

I'm not really talking about the 50% rate recently imposed but more the worrying precedent it appears to set, that taxes will rise as a result of the government debt.

The worry for young people like me is that we aren't looking at ways we can save on spending but rather increasing taxes. The government getting 40pence of the pound income tax is MORE than enough, that's not to mention the fags and booze. If they are needing more than that they need to look at themselves and how they can more efficiently spend the money NOT look back to the taxpayer and ask for more.

The 50% rate is on income over 150K rather than the whole sum. Anyone who gets that much and begrudges paying their way is just plain greedy IMO.

 

[blue'n'white]

I can't believe that anybody would be stupid enough to vote Labour again after the God awful way they've f***ed everything up.
Mind you I thought the same about the Yanks in 2004 so . . .

 

[blue'n'white]

Serious question - how many people do you know that earn over 150K a year?

(By the way the top rate was 60% under Thatcher).

Back in the 60s/70s the top rate was 83% !!!!!

 

[sir danny cullip]

The 50% rate is on income over 150K rather than the whole sum. Anyone who gets that much and begrudges paying their way is just plain greedy IMO.

Yea I know that now but my point is that it shows that labour would rather increase the income tax rather than look at themselves and their spending. Soon enough it could be reduced to 100k for 50% and so on and so forth, is just concerning for people like me that have 40 or so years of paying taxes to look forward to.

 

[GT49er]

Ah, so many of you youmger posters cannot remember the evil of the Thatcher years! "Greed is good" and "There is no such thing as society" were the mantras; football fans were regarded as the scum of the earth, of course ("They're not people like us") and jobs were something that poor people had to do; they obviously didn't like working, so take their jobs away. In the Thyatcher years more damange was done to British manufacturing industry than the Luftwaffe managed in the entire World War II.
Young Cameron might be trying to say all the right things (well, to be fair he is saying all the right things) but he can't rid himself and his party of the stench of Thathcherism - you've got to remember that as a youngster he was one of the people that would have been behind Thatcher all the way. You seriously think the present government is bad in comparison to that one? OK, they ain't very good, but they're better than what they replaced ten times over! Be very careful what you wish for!

 

[bigc]

Yea I know that now but my point is that it shows that labour would rather increase the income tax rather than look at themselves and their spending. Soon enough it could be reduced to 100k for 50% and so on and so forth, is just concerning for people like me that have 40 or so years of paying taxes to look forward to.

Surely only about 2% earn over 150k, if that?

I very much doubt it would drop to 100k, seeing as 150k is temporary. But just remember this, the Tories haven't said they would get rid of it either.

There is nothing wrong with being ambitious, what's the point in getting up in the mornings otherwise? But surely there is something to be said for ambition to be realised within a society in which certain frameworks are maintained and a level of common good can be enjoyed by all. I realise this hasn't occured as such yet but surely isn't this better than the alternative.

Anyway, you don't see ambition stifled in Sweden where I'm sure they'd consider our 150k move as incredibly moderate.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

What is someone's wealth to do with the expenses they claimed ?. The system is there. Some abused it Cameron DID NOT

I repeat: he is a millionaire who claimed from the public purse to have some wisteria removed from the front of his mansion.

This is not a living expense. It is not a travel expense. It is not any kind of subsistence expense that I can think of. The only difference between him and any other leeching, thieving MP who's claimed for duck islands, food which they'd have had to buy anyway, tampons, porn movies, moat cleaning, homes they don't even have mortgages on, or tennis court maintenance is the amount.

But the amount is not the issue here, it's the principle. Removal of weeds from one's country pile is absolutely CHUFF ALL to do with the taxpayer, and thus someone who claims for the cost of that from the revenue that you and I have earned through our hard work, can go pluck his own eyeballs out with a rusty spoon before he gets my vote.

 

[NMH]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/may/24/david-camerson-conservative-candidates

I've never voted for the Conservatives, and I lean much more to the centre than most of his party, but I have to say that David Cameron is playing a blinder during the expenses scandal, showing leadership and coming across as frank and open in a way Labour haven't for a long, long time.

Still no idea who I'm going to vote for on June 4th!

His lot have been just as dodgy, greedy and criminal as the rest, yet he keeps calling for an election?
He's yapping on about all the things HE is doing and calling for, like he's some kind of conductor in the audience at an orchestral recital, it's just more smoke and mirrors from someone with no more clue about how to run the country than I have.

But some people will fall for this simple spin, rather than find out wtf he intends to do if his party gets in.
He already said enough, when he explained they'd have to do some unpopular things, and thank God for Margaret Thatcher. That doesn't take much reading between the lines - he is going to be screwing you all for higher taxes, wiping out whole industries and edging the country closer to being like third world - few super-rich and everyone else working to keep them that way.

 

[bigc]

Had I actually bothered to properly interpret Goldstone Rappers post, I would have agreed.

He has certainly made himself a very strong hand out of this by appearing to act tough, whether it was easier or not. I think he probably learnt from the umming and arring over the Grammar Schools thing in May 2007 that gave him his first wobble.

I think the open selection for candidates who are non members will come to nothing mind you. I don't think the 1922 committee would be too happy to have all these newcomers to try and keep tabs on.

 

[ack]

I cant believe all this expenses better than yours shite, all MP's have had their nose in the trough for years.
For the younger members, Labour have spent all plus more everytime they have been in power. And fecked the country for yrs after. Dont vote by party next time,vote for where you want to be. But remember Brown sold our Gold, raided our pensions, taxed us to the hilt in the good years on a ticket of NHS and Schools. And now we as a country are penneless even the major capital lenders are downgrading our ratings.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

Anytime I ever find myself wavering and considering voting Tory I only need to remember the image of all those blue rinse old dears and braying upper class toffs worshipping the blessed Margaret in front of the Brighton Centre (they would have elected a donkey if it had a blue rosette) and I soon come to my senses and realize I would back Labour when it comes to the crunch. Cameron may be an improvement but the Tory party can never change its spots - it will always be the party of privilege and the ‘I’m alright Jack’ brigade.