Calais

[Creaky]

Yep, and we are being painted the bad boys by some when many are willing to board trains/lorries etc to enter England ILLEGALLY......i now see how it works.

The method of entry may be illegal but the UN Protocol protects them from being penalised for their method of entry IF they then claim asylum at the first oppertunity. The problem is of course that if they are discovered whilst still on the lorry or train on arrival in the UK they will then claim asylum, (which is their 'first opportunity'). If they are caught at a later date how do you prove how they entered the country?

I can't recall anyone being prosecuted for illegal entry.

 

[Soulman]

The method of entry may be illegal but the UN Protocol protects them from being penalised for their method of entry IF they then claim asylum at the first oppertunity. The problem is of course that if they are discovered whilst still on the lorry or train on arrival in the UK they will then claim asylum, (which is their 'first opportunity'). If they are caught at a later date how do you prove how they entered the country?

I can't recall anyone being prosecuted for illegal entry.

Makes a mockery of the system. To pass through so many safe countries which is why they are escaping, begs the question why are they traveling for up to 18months to get to Calais.

 

[The Spanish]

It would be great if there was some method for sponsoring those at Calais, you offer to put them up in your home, pay any costs while they are starting their new life in the UK, until they are working and processed fully.

I bet not a soul would take that up apart from a very very few of the altruistic in our society. You can pretty much guarantee that.

Most people are just happy to posture and hope someone else picks up the tab socially and fiscally. I don't blame anyone for migrating, I am happy to admit these people have generally had harder lives than most on here could even conceive of. I blame daft people here who want to give away what's not theirs to give.

It's all very well saying 'we can afford it' when it's not your doctor or kids school that's taking the pressure.

Monocultural brighton could do with pitching in at some point after a weekend celebrating diversity.

 

[Creaky]

The whole situation is a complete mess and I can't see a solution without genuine cooperation and funding between the EU countries. I do believe that we should accept genuine refugees, (despite government promises we have still not accepted our share of the 2 million Syrian refugees), but if we or the French start some form of mass application process for those in Calais and other pqarts of the EU that will only encourage more to make the often life threatening journey to Europe - on the other hand if we stop the emigraion from North Africa then more lives will be lost by those already there and those in UN refugee camps will have to continue to endure the miserable conditions. It's a very sad situation.

I know that if I found myself in the situation that most of those in Calais found themselves in their home country that I would probably be amongst them. I in no way blame them for the attempt they are trying to take for a better life for themselves and their family and am just thankful for the good luck I have had in being born an Englishman - I had no part in that, it was simply a fluke.

 

[BigGully]

The whole situation is a complete mess and I can't see a solution without genuine cooperation and funding between the EU countries. I do believe that we should accept genuine refugees, (despite government promises we have still not accepted our share of the 2 million Syrian refugees), but if we or the French start some form of mass application process for those in Calais and other pqarts of the EU that will only encourage more to make the often life threatening journey to Europe - on the other hand if we stop the emigraion from North Africa then more lives will be lost by those already there and those in UN refugee camps will have to continue to endure the miserable conditions. It's a very sad situation.

I know that if I found myself in the situation that most of those in Calais found themselves in their home country that I would probably be amongst them. I in no way blame them for the attempt they are trying to take for a better life for themselves and their family and am just thankful for the good luck I have had in being born an Englishman - I had no part in that, it was simply a fluke.

Utter nonsense, wanting to better yourself perhaps is a natural aspiration, it neednt then become a lawless effort to impose themselves on other communities, they too might wish to use their own humanity instincts to respect others too.

They care little for the hauliers and their lorries which are ripped open, they care little for the fences they rip down, this isnt an effort for self preservation they are leaving France FFS, it driven by greed without thought to me, you or any other recipient country.

 

[Creaky]

Utter nonsense, wanting to better yourself perhaps is a natural aspiration, it neednt then become a lawless effort to impose themselves on other communities, they too might wish to use their own humanity instincts to respect others too.

They care little for the hauliers and their lorries which are ripped open, they care little for the fences they rip down, this isnt an effort for self preservation they are leaving France FFS, it driven by greed without thought to me, you or any other recipient country.

You and I are both looking at the situation from our point of view as citizens of the UK. I guess it requires a bit of thought and empathy to put youself in the position of those in Calais. Having travelled hundreds, probably thousands of miles, facing numerous hardships and in many cases risking their life with the aim of reaching the UK to keep them going then they are hardly likely to stop in Calais because of the relatively minor hardships it might cause hauliers or damage a few fences!

I don't KNOW that is their reasoning, I can only try and imagine what it would be like if I had managed to escape from, for example, areas threatened by ISIS. Manged to get to the Mediterranean coast, spent every last penny in gaining a place in a rickety old boat and then risked my life in the crossing to Europe. I can't imagine it would have been without hardship crossing Europe either. To then ask them to stop and respect the 'rights' of those already in the UK when less than 30 miles from their goal is I think a little unrealistic and not, I imagine, something that would stop me if I were in their position.

 

[BigGully]

You and I are both looking at the situation from our point of view as citizens of the UK. I guess it requires a bit of thought and empathy to put youself in the position of those in Calais. Having travelled hundreds, probably thousands of miles, facing numerous hardships and in many cases risking their life with the aim of reaching the UK to keep them going then they are hardly likely to stop in Calais because of the relatively minor hardships it might cause hauliers or damage a few fences!

I don't KNOW that is their reasoning, I can only try and imagine what it would be like if I had managed to escape from, for example, areas threatened by ISIS. Manged to get to the Mediterranean coast, spent every last penny in gaining a place in a rickety old boat and then risked my life in the crossing to Europe. I can't imagine it would have been without hardship crossing Europe either. To then ask them to stop and respect the 'rights' of those already in the UK when less than 30 miles from their goal is I think a little unrealistic and not, I imagine, something that would stop me if I were in their position.

What exactly are these hardship that they have encountered in mainland europe that might be comparable to what they say they are fleeing from.

Its not an existence I would choose for myself, but I doubt that I would be inclined to traipse throughout a land, with what it seems having very little empathy for those recipient countries or communities.

I am not sure that these are even the most vulnerable people from the countrys from which they leave, it seems you need considerable money or favour to even board a ship, its the privileged and capitalism at its most brutal.

Recent actions in Calaise are a bunch of greedy men with little thought to those they effect, its not ISIS they are fleeing from ....... it is France.

 

[Creaky]

What exactly are these hardship that they have encountered in mainland europe that might be comparable to what they say they are fleeing from.

Its not an existence I would choose for myself, but I doubt that I would be inclined to traipse throughout a land, with what it seems having very little empathy for those recipient countries or communities.

I am not sure that these are even the most vulnerable people from the countrys from which they leave, it seems you need considerable money or favour to even board a ship, its the privileged and capitalism at its most brutal.

Recent actions in Calaise are a bunch of greedy men with little thought to those they effect, its not ISIS they are fleeing from ....... it is France.

Greedy may be an apt description - after all the prospect of living in the UK may well instill a desire for more than the nothing they currently have. Having little thought for those they effect? - as I posted earlier, worry about the effect on those who already have infinitely more than they have is probably the last thing on their mind.

 

[topbanana36]

3 water cannons not being used in Scotland yard and what happened to Ken Bates' electric fences?

 

[Soulman]

What exactly are these hardship that they have encountered in mainland europe that might be comparable to what they say they are fleeing from.

Its not an existence I would choose for myself, but I doubt that I would be inclined to traipse throughout a land, with what it seems having very little empathy for those recipient countries or communities.

I am not sure that these are even the most vulnerable people from the countrys from which they leave, it seems you need considerable money or favour to even board a ship, its the privileged and capitalism at its most brutal.

Recent actions in Calaise are a bunch of greedy men with little thought to those they effect, its not ISIS they are fleeing from ....... it is France.

Hundreds of stowaways are receiving three cooked meals a day in hotels boasting gyms and spas – along with £35 a week in spending money.

They have been spotted smoking cigarettes and talking on mobile phones in the hotels by holidaying families.
One migrant, identified only as Adam, was taken to a hotel in Lancashire after arriving in Britain stowed away in a lorry.
Adam, from war-torn South Sudan, said: "The situation is really good here, much better than the situations we have been through.”
He is now waiting to be given a lawyer so he can make a formal application to claim asylum in Britain.
The Home Office pays private companies a staggering £150million to to find asylum seekers somewhere to stay.
It is understood that Serco would normally find places for them in the community – but has turned to hotels after the surge of migrants entering Britain in recent months.
The crisis is so severe that the country's six dedicated immigration centres are full, despite being built to house 1,200 people.
Tory MP Alec Shelbrooke said: "It is outrageous that asylum seekers are being put up in hotel rooms at public expense.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/59...-hotels-Serco-Home-Office-Ukip-Britain-France

 

[Creaky]

Hundreds of stowaways are receiving three cooked meals a day in hotels boasting gyms and spas – along with £35 a week in spending money.

They have been spotted smoking cigarettes and talking on mobile phones in the hotels by holidaying families.
One migrant, identified only as Adam, was taken to a hotel in Lancashire after arriving in Britain stowed away in a lorry.
Adam, from war-torn South Sudan, said: "The situation is really good here, much better than the situations we have been through.”
He is now waiting to be given a lawyer so he can make a formal application to claim asylum in Britain.
The Home Office pays private companies a staggering £150million to to find asylum seekers somewhere to stay.
It is understood that Serco would normally find places for them in the community – but has turned to hotels after the surge of migrants entering Britain in recent months.
The crisis is so severe that the country's six dedicated immigration centres are full, despite being built to house 1,200 people.
Tory MP Alec Shelbrooke said: "It is outrageous that asylum seekers are being put up in hotel rooms at public expense.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/59...-hotels-Serco-Home-Office-Ukip-Britain-France

Why not quote this bit from the same article?

"A Serco spokesman insisted the use of hotels was a short-term measure and did not cost taxpayers any extra."

 

[BigGully]

Why not quote this bit from the same article?

"A Serco spokesman insisted the use of hotels was a short-term measure and did not cost taxpayers any extra."

Any extra money, doesnt mean there isnt an added cost and that cost is greater than if they hadnt entered the UK in the first instance.

 

[Hastings gull]

Missed that post the first time round, shame as it could have saved us a great deal of typing. You should move here you and our PM would get on like a house on fire i think (although he may find your ideas a little extreme. No wonder we can't agree on this

Unfortunately, the situation is rather extreme and as yet no one has come up with a solution that would be more workable unless we accept your romantic idea that we just share them around the EU, and then again next year with even more, now they see the floodgates have opened, then again, then again , then again. We just keep doing it -so simple. Just been watching German TV, where the regional governments are begging for cash from central funds, as they are being overwhelmed. But you like the idea of spreading them around, so EU citizens lets go for it.

 

[Hastings gull]

You and I are both looking at the situation from our point of view as citizens of the UK. I guess it requires a bit of thought and empathy to put youself in the position of those in Calais. Having travelled hundreds, probably thousands of miles, facing numerous hardships and in many cases risking their life with the aim of reaching the UK to keep them going then they are hardly likely to stop in Calais because of the relatively minor hardships it might cause hauliers or damage a few fences!

I don't KNOW that is their reasoning, I can only try and imagine what it would be like if I had managed to escape from, for example, areas threatened by ISIS. Manged to get to the Mediterranean coast, spent every last penny in gaining a place in a rickety old boat and then risked my life in the crossing to Europe. I can't imagine it would have been without hardship crossing Europe either. To then ask them to stop and respect the 'rights' of those already in the UK when less than 30 miles from their goal is I think a little unrealistic and not, I imagine, something that would stop me if I were in their position.

I see what you are saying exactly and fully follow your reasoning, but even if they are desperate, it still does not obligate us to move one inch. Their behaviour has now become far more aggressive and is tantamount to demanding that they be allowed in by their actions, and as we all know, if we give in, we will have even more.

 

[BadFish]

Unfortunately, the situation is rather extreme and as yet no one has come up with a solution that would be more workable unless we accept your romantic idea that we just share them around the EU, and then again next year with even more, now they see the floodgates have opened, then again, then again , then again. We just keep doing it -so simple. Just been watching German TV, where the regional governments are begging for cash from central funds, as they are being overwhelmed. But you like the idea of spreading them around, so EU citizens lets go for it.

Not my idea HG, Soulman's! No wonder having a conversation with you is so difficult. Your idea is not workable, it just moves the problem on to someone else.

 

[Hastings gull]

Greedy may be an apt description - after all the prospect of living in the UK may well instill a desire for more than the nothing they currently have. Having little thought for those they effect? - as I posted earlier, worry about the effect on those who already have infinitely more than they have is probably the last thing on their mind.

You may well be right here, but that does not make their actions excusable or justifiable, though I do appreciate that you are not necessarily claiming this.

 

[Soulman]

Not my ideas HG, Soulman's! No wonder having a conversation with you is so difficult. Your idea is not workable, it just moves the problem on to someone else.

Hang on, you stated it was a "worldwide problem" in which case countries like yours, China, Japan, Hong Kong, NZ etc should also be involved, we are part of the EU (unfortunately) and get the mainly Eastern Europeans, the migrants in Calais come from non EU countries.

 

[Creaky]

I see what you are saying exactly and fully follow your reasoning, but even if they are desperate, it still does not obligate us to move one inch. Their behaviour has now become far more aggressive and is tantamount to demanding that they be allowed in by their actions, and as we all know, if we give in, we will have even more.

Totally agree - as I posted earlier I don't know what the solution is - either in practical terms or humanitarian ones.

What I do believe though is that there is absolutely no point in demonising those who are trying to enter the EU or the UK. The individuals in Calais are not the real problem, they are simply a symptom of the problem.

 

[BadFish]

Hang on, you stated it was a "worldwide problem" in which case countries like yours, China, Japan, Hong Kong, NZ etc should also be involved, we are part of the EU (unfortunately) and get the mainly Eastern Europeans, the migrants in Calais come from non EU countries.

Yes I did. Sorry don't get the relevance here? I was just pointing out that HG was attributing your 'romantic idea' to me. All i said was that i liked it. You came up with it.

 

[Soulman]

Yes I did. Sorry don't get the relevance here? I was just pointing out that HG was attributing your 'romantic idea' to me. All i said was that i liked it. You came up with it.

You asked for my solution, i gave my opinion on a possible solution, which was have processing areas in mid Europe, which would save the supposed asylum seekers trekking across many countries to get to Calais. Nothing to stop a proportion of these migrants being sent Eastwards towards the countries i mentioned, seeing as it is a "worldwide problem" and they are non EU migrants.