Calais

[Hastings gull]

Pastafarian's stats earlier in the thread prove that you have an application process that works and that people cannot just lie to get in. What on earth makes you assume that everyone can just lie and get in?

I did not say that everyone can lie. Just that it would be very hard to verify a statement given by someone who comes from a hell-hole like Syria at present. Or Somalia. Can you not see that ?

 

[BadFish]

I did not say that everyone can lie. Just that it would be very hard to verify a statement given by someone who comes from a hell-hole like Syria at present. Or Somalia. Can you not see that ?

Of course it would be, but things that are very hard are also doable and the fact that 68.5% of applications are denied suggest the system does exactly that

 

[BadFish]

The process centre in central EU, if they are genuine they can head there instead of trying to illegally enter the UK by stowing on lorries etc.

So a bit like what could happen in Italy with all the people arriving there by boat. They get processed and then sent out around the EU?

I like that idea it could work.

Why couldn't England and France get together and do the same with the people at Calais?

 

[Soulman]

So a bit like what could happen in Italy with all the people arriving there by boat. They get processed and then sent out around the EU?

I like that idea it could work.

Why couldn't England and France get together and do the same with the people at Calais?

If your first part of your post was implemented then the second part would not arise.

Just as a side, when you deflected the thread away from Calais to a "worldwide" problem, why should Europe get the problem?. How about "get processed and then sent out around the" world. Why do you mention "get processed and then sent out around the EU" only.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

So a bit like what could happen in Italy with all the people arriving there by boat. They get processed and then sent out around the EU?

I like that idea it could work.

Why couldn't England and France get together and do the same with the people at Calais?

Would certainly be more civilised than doing what the Aussie government do i.e. pay Papua New Guinea to be a dumping ground for boat people aiming for Oz.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23358329

 

[BadFish]

You either want reminding or not. If you need to be reminded again, then the chances are that you already know! Page 7 post 69.

Missed that post the first time round, shame as it could have saved us a great deal of typing. You should move here you and our PM would get on like a house on fire i think (although he may find your ideas a little extreme. No wonder we can't agree on this

 

[BadFish]

Would certainly be more civilised than doing what the Aussie government do i.e. pay Papua New Guinea to be a dumping ground for boat people aiming for Oz.

Bloody right it would , Our government is an absolute disgrace.

You forgot about
- Them passing legislation that says they don't have to report when boats arrive, then telling us that there have been no more boats.
- Towing boats back to indonesia to let some other poor suckers deal with the problem
and best of all
- Passing legislation that allows them to in-prison workers on Maus Island who report any kind of mistreatment or sexual assault of kids.

 

[Soulman]

Bloody right it would , Our government is an absolute disgrace.

You forgot about
- Them passing legislation that says they don't have to report when boats arrive, then telling us that there have been no more boats.
- Towing boats back to indonesia to let some other poor suckers deal with the problem
and best of all
- Passing legislation that allows them to in-prison workers on Maus Island who report any kind of mistreatment or sexual assault of kids.

Maybe best to concentrate and lobby your own country on message boards BF, instead of lecturing us on what we should do.

 

[BadFish]

If your first part of your post was implemented then the second part would not arise.

Just as a side, when you deflected the thread away from Calais to a "worldwide" problem, why should Europe get the problem?. How about "get processed and then sent out around the" world. Why do you mention "get processed and then sent out around the EU" only.

Two reasons
1 - because we were talking about your idea and your idea was to have a central processing point for the UN
2 - because those places already exist, they are called refugee camps and are run by the UN (although they are unbelievably slow to process due to massive numbers - 5.1 million refugees in 60 camps).

 

[BadFish]

Maybe best to concentrate and lobby your own country on message boards BF, instead of lecturing us on what we should do.

I do thanks SM. If you don't like me "lecturing" you, you could always stop replying, or even put me on ignore.

It is ironic that you more than anyone moans about me discussing such topics, yet it is you more than anyone else who responds to my posts all the time.

Its very touching

 

[Creaky]

The process centre in central EU, if they are genuine they can head there instead of trying to illegally enter the UK by stowing on lorries etc.

If a refugee enters the UK by whatever means and claims asylum then under international law they can not be prosecuted for their method of entry. So the question of whether entry was legal or illegal is a moot point.

There also seems to be a general misunderstanding of international law regarding where a refugee can claim asylum. There is NO obligation for them to do so under international law in the first safe country they pass through. There is an obligation however for the first country they do reach to asses an asylum application and if a refugee claims asylum in a third country then that country can ask the first one to make the decision regarding asylum.

 

[Soulman]

There also seems to be a general misunderstanding of international law regarding where a refugee can claim asylum. There is NO obligation for them to do so under international law in the first safe country they pass through. There is an obligation however for the first country they do reach to asses an asylum application and if a refugee claims asylum in a third country then that country can ask the first one to make the decision regarding asylum.

So how can these migrants cross countless borders and still not have asylum to enter the UK, but want to enter illegally on trucks etc. Surely the decision should have been made in the first or third country by your logic.

 

[Creaky]

So how can these migrants cross countless borders and still not have asylum to enter the UK, but want to enter illegally on trucks etc. Surely the decision should have been made in the first or third country by your logic.

A refugee is entitled to make an asylum request in any country they have entered, (by whatever means) - that country can however legally return that individual to a 'safe country' that they have previously passed through for the asylum request to be assessed - remembering of course that the UN Protocol on Refugees gives asylum seeker the right of access to the courts to fight any such move - which is probably why such removals rarely happen.

 

[Soulman]

A refugee is entitled to make an asylum request in any country they have entered, (by whatever means) - that country can however legally return that individual to a 'safe country' that they have previously passed through for the asylum request to be assessed - remembering of course that the UN Protocol on Refugees gives asylum seeker the right of access to the courts to fight any such move - which is probably why such removals rarely happen.

Okay, i am not being obtuse but you stated " There is an obligation however for the first country they do reach to asses an asylum application"....so surely after passing so many borders this "obligation" has not been adhered to.

 

[Creaky]

Okay, i am not being obtuse but you stated " There is an obligation however for the first country they do reach to asses an asylum application"....so surely after passing so many borders this "obligation" has not been adhered to.

The obligation is on the first safe country NOT on the refugee. That is why if the refugee reaches a third country then that third country can request the first one to assess the asylum application.

 

[Soulman]

The obligation is on the first safe country NOT on the refugee. That is why if the refugee reaches a third country then that third country can request the first one to assess the asylum application.

Ok, so these migrants at Calais have passed through many "safe" countries so presumably they have their asylum country sorted out.

 

[Creaky]

Ok, so these migrants at Calais have passed through many "safe" countries so presumably they have their asylum country sorted out.

NO - They COULD claim asylum in France and if they each the UK they CAN claim asylum here - a refugee can make an asylum application in ANY country they reach.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Ok, so these migrants at Calais have passed through many "safe" countries so presumably they have their asylum country sorted out.

Bottom line is, they're no longer interested in just being 'safe', They were 'safe' as soon as they reached the European mainland in last season's Champions League tops a thousand miles ago. New goal is they want to reach the promised land where the streets are paved with gold and you get a house and a job and maybe even a a car. That's us, folks.

 

[Soulman]

NO - They COULD claim asylum in France and if they each the UK they CAN claim asylum here - a refugee can make an asylum application in ANY country they reach.

Ok thanks for clearing that up, your initial statement confused me quote "There is an obligation however for the first country they do reach to asses an asylum application"...clearly they can pass through the first country and keep going until they reach a country that they want to claim asylum.

 

[Soulman]

Bottom line is, they're no longer interested in just being 'safe', They were 'safe' as soon as they reached the European mainland in last season's Champions League tops a thousand miles ago. New goal is they want to reach the promised land where the streets are paved with gold and you get a house and a job and maybe even a a car. That's us, folks.

Yep, and we are being painted the bad boys by some when many are willing to board trains/lorries etc to enter England ILLEGALLY......i now see how it works.