[Politics] Brexit

[Lincoln Imp]

We don't need a Singapore option,a Norwegian option,or any other option than a BRITISH option.If the EU want to keep on trading with us on the current rules,they are very welcome.If they don't, it's their loss,we'll buy from someone else and weep a solitary tear as their economies slide round the u-bend.

The references to Singapore and Norway were just shorthand to indicate the extremes of the options before us.

(I am sure that the EU would be happy to 'keep on trading with us on the current rules' - the fact that you would welcome it suggests you favour something at the Norwegian end of the scale. Me too.)

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

A leading NSC Brexiter once explained to me, with enormous condescension, that there was nothing on the ballot paper apart from Stay and Leave. Leave got the most votes so leave we presumably will. We will no longer be members of the EU. That's it. Nothing less. But also nothing more. Leaving can mean Norway or, if you want, Singapore.

I imagine you prefer the Singapore option, the dream of a low-regulation tariff-free tax haven trading to the best of its ability with whoever it can. You're not alone. It's what Farage and the hard-Brexiters want. It's why they're creating rightwing equivalents of Momentum, fuelled by Arron's millions and committed to keeping the Tories 'clean'. They and you have every right to demand these things.

And politicians have every right to ignore you. It they do, they're not failing to 'deliver' a promise. No promise was made other (by implication) than to leave the EU if most people said they wanted to. All Brexit means is Brexit and all you mean by a 'correct' Brexit is the version of Brexit you personally want. Others may want something rather different (one of my friends in central London is quite happy to see free movement continue - he voted Leave for other reasons).

At the moment there is no mandate of any kind for anything other than to Leave the EU. Fight for your version of departure by all means but don't insist it is necessarily the people's wish.

Actually I agree Lincoln Imp. The only mandate is to leave the EU. How we do so will probably be faught out at the next election and I wouldn't be against a second referendum on the terms as proposed by Tim Farron. By the by I'm also pleased that there is now recognition that there were many motives for voting Leave or Remain and the accusations that a vote for Leave was a racist vote seem to have been replaced with more reasoned debate (I don't mean you by the way as there is very little chance of my remembering what any poster wrote several days ago let alone several months).

 

[KingstonSeagull]

I think that the Polls have got it wrong again. Everyone I speak to seems to be voting out...

Hate to say I told you so but....

 

[5ways]

We don't need a Singapore option,a Norwegian option,or any other option than a BRITISH option.If the EU want to keep on trading with us on the current rules,they are very welcome.If they don't, it's their loss,we'll buy from someone else and weep a solitary tear as their economies slide round the u-bend.

Your grasp of the situation is pretty shocking. You realise that the EU is half our exports, and we're about 16% of theirs? You're also aware that the current rules include free movement?

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

A leading NSC Brexiter once explained to me, with enormous condescension, that there was nothing on the ballot paper apart from Stay and Leave. Leave got the most votes so leave we presumably will. We will no longer be members of the EU. That's it. Nothing less. But also nothing more. Leaving can mean Norway or, if you want, Singapore.

I imagine you prefer the Singapore option, the dream of a low-regulation tariff-free tax haven trading to the best of its ability with whoever it can. You're not alone. It's what Farage and the hard-Brexiters want. It's why they're creating rightwing equivalents of Momentum, fuelled by Arron's millions and committed to keeping the Tories 'clean'. They and you have every right to demand these things.

And politicians have every right to ignore you. It they do, they're not failing to 'deliver' a promise. No promise was made other (by implication) than to leave the EU if most people said they wanted to. All Brexit means is Brexit and all you mean by a 'correct' Brexit is the version of Brexit you personally want. Others may want something rather different (one of my friends in central London is quite happy to see free movement continue - he voted Leave for other reasons).

At the moment there is no mandate of any kind for anything other than to Leave the EU. Fight for your version of departure by all means but don't insist it is necessarily the people's wish.

I agree with your well rounded reply,it is almost without question correct,with the small issue of immigration,driving like a splinter in the minds of those who voted leave,it's the main focus of why people voted leave,it could be argued and somewhat fairly by many,that immigration issues had little to do with EU membership,however,most if not all of leave voters voted leave because of immigration control,or perceived lack of it.

For that reason i believe any Brexit,that allows continued freedom of passage for people,will in the medium term possibly alienate the leave voter..

Therefore i can conclude perhaps wrongly,that in the main,leave and brexit means control over immigration,which in turn means no access to the single market..

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Your grasp of the situation is pretty shocking. You realise that the EU is half our exports, and we're about 16% of theirs? You're also aware that the current rules include free movement?

How much of the 16% is German- one wonders. besides it's only that way because we are within a rule bound system,set by the EU,leave the EU and the rules are subject to change?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Your grasp of the situation is pretty shocking. You realise that the EU is half our exports, and we're about 16% of theirs?

You're not comparing apples with apples though. Your comparison compares a single country's exports ( i.e. the UK's ) with a combined 27 countries exports. You might as well compare our exports to a continents - maybe Africa. The UK and Germany have similar size economies so how about comparing the exports between those two COUNTRIES.

 

[ManOfSussex]

About 10% of all British exports go to Germany.
About 7% of German exports go to The UK.

 

[5ways]

You're not comparing apples with apples though. Your comparison compares a single country's exports ( i.e. the UK's ) with a combined 27 countries exports. You might as well compare our exports to a continents - maybe Africa. The UK and Germany have similar size economies so how about comparing the exports between those two COUNTRIES.

Because you trade with the EU as a bloc. This is one of the big advantages of being in the EU, you're one of the big boys and can throw your weight around to get better deals. By dint of being bigger than us they will drive the terms to their advantage, the UK will have to fight a rearguard action to preserve as many benefits as possible..

 

[Two Professors]

Your grasp of the situation is pretty shocking. You realise that the EU is half our exports, and we're about 16% of theirs? You're also aware that the current rules include free movement?

What a load of bolox.EU has not been half our exports for some years now.Try looking at which countries export that 16%? to us out of the 27 and the state of the economies in them.Opel have already gone to reduced hours in the expectation of tariffs-don't suppose Mercedes,VW,BMW etc would be happy with a TRADE war.They can keep their free movement along with their terrorists.

 

[beorhthelm]

You realise that the EU is half our exports, and we're about 16% of theirs?

and do you realise spouting off these percentages shows no understanding of the value of that trade either way? tell us how much those trade markets are worth, then consider what that means for the descision making.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

I see the EU similar to Rye harbour 2000 years ago......meanwhile i am on the ship out of Rye harbour and about to set sail on the good ship Brexit,doubt i will be able to return to Rye in the long run,no matter how choppy the waters may be in our initial sailing...the upside is bigger harbours and greater riches..

I may just add that Rye in East Sussex is a very charming town and full of medieval wonder...

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Because you trade with the EU as a bloc. This is one of the big advantages of being in the EU, you're one of the big boys and can throw your weight around to get better deals. By dint of being bigger than us they will drive the terms to their advantage, the UK will have to fight a rearguard action to preserve as many benefits as possible..

You can't possibly know that unless you are involved with the negotiations. There are many issues that can be used as bargaining chips by both sides. It is actually this that is the weakness of the Brexit case not whether we have a stronger or weaker hand. The real issue is that there is no 'quality control' as to the outcome which could be a stitch up between the Tory party and the EU beaurocrats. The vote to Leave was but the first part of the process. I am increasingly of the view that we can re-unite the country with a debate on the terms of leaving but without the point scoring guessing game as to what is happening in the 'smoke filled rooms'.

 

[Soulman]

A senior Police Officer with the Metropolitan Police is facing a disciplinary investigation for social media postings in support of a Leave vote in the EU Referendum.

Peter Whittle AM, UKIP’s Group Leader in the London Assembly and a member of its Police and Crime Committee said:

“Whilst serving police officers should be careful with what they say, Detective Chief Inspector Mick Neville’s postings were done in such a way that did not highlight his police rank or indeed his membership of the Metropolitan Police, whereas for example Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, who supported Remain, made his high profile intervention in uniform. To damn one and not the other to me seems to be a form of political hypocrisy.

“I hope that the Met’s Directorate of Professional Standards investigation comes to a swift and sharp end with Detective Chief Inspector Mick Neville being able to continue keeping London’s streets and communities safe.”
http://www.peterwhittleam.com/press-releases/met-police-continue-to-take-sides-in-brexit-debate

 

[ManOfSussex]

A Google Search on 'Detective Chief Inspector Mick Neville' brings up:

The Sun - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18073...r-posting-support-for-ukip-and-brexit-online/
The Daily Express - http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/71...hief-fired-UKIP-Brexit-support-Facebook-posts

And a slightly different report on:

PINK News - http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/09/1...ty-to-nazi-germany-facing-disciplinary-probe/

 

[Soulman]

A Google Search on 'Detective Chief Inspector Mick Neville' brings up:

The Sun - https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18073...r-posting-support-for-ukip-and-brexit-online/
The Daily Express - http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/71...hief-fired-UKIP-Brexit-support-Facebook-posts

And a slightly different report on:

PINK News - http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/09/1...ty-to-nazi-germany-facing-disciplinary-probe/

PINK News, where is that one scraped up from.

 

[ManOfSussex]

PINK News, where is that one scraped up from.

They've found, alleged, Facebook posts he made several years ago. See how the reality on this pans out, but he could be facing disciplinary action for things other than merely supporting vote leave.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

ON A BRIGHTER NOTE the Lib Dems THE NEW WANNABE OPPOSITION PARTY ready to question Brexit negotiations, couldn't make it up, not worth a ****
regards
DR

 

[nicko31]

PINK News, where is that one scraped up from.

He does sound like a lovely fella

 

[melias shoes]

Because you trade with the EU as a bloc. This is one of the big advantages of being in the EU, you're one of the big boys and can throw your weight around to get better deals. By dint of being bigger than us they will drive the terms to their advantage, the UK will have to fight a rearguard action to preserve as many benefits as possible..

As far as I'm concerned being in the EU as a trade bloc is what hinders us. We can throw our own weight around without the hindrance of having to go through the approval and terms of the EU. The only rearguard we need is to make sure Britain gets the best possible deal for BRITAIN.