[Politics] Brexit

[ManOfSussex]

We could on the other hand go back to a time, the good old days some would say, when one country held power over other nation states and ruled them from a central government. We could call it a fancy name like U.S.S.R or something like that. We could imagine that one of them finally broke away, swifty followed by others. Walls came down to much rejoicing around the world. Then this could be heralded as a golden age of trade and friendship.

History tells us that political unions of separate nation states do not and will not ever work. Freedom, friendship and trade is the future.

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I sincerely hope you're right.

 

[Triggaaar]

Yep, this is bad for other countries too, it is not just ourselves we have hobbled, and yet somehow we hope to get preferential treatment in the divorce.

Whose 'we'? You and some others? I don't expect preferential treatment, I expect a fair deal.

 

[Baldseagull]

We are already in negotiations with Merkel. Where do you get the idea we're not?

We cannot negotiate anything with Merkel, all we can do is try and ensure she is helpful to our negotiations with the E.U., but what happens will not be her decision.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Do you think there's a reason all of these democratically elected MPs don't want to trigger Article 50?

Do you think there's something in their experience of government that makes them think that signing it would not be in Britain's interest?

I'm interest in what the facts were that swayed it for you? What was it that you saw that these incredibly bright people that we have elected do not see?

Given that a majority of MPs are Tories I would imagine that I for one disagree with a fair few other views held by these incredibly bright people. If Labour does not sort out its infighting there will likely be an even bigger Tory majority after the next election. They will still be bright and I will still be disagreeing with them....

 

[Baldseagull]

Whose 'we'? You and some others? I don't expect preferential treatment, I expect a fair deal.

We had a fair deal, please tell me what the fairer deal you want looks like.

 

[Triggaaar]

We cannot negotiate anything with Merkel

Of course we can, what a strange thing to say. If she agrees on a trade deal with us, that works for Germany, what are the EU going to do, let Germany leave too?

We had a fair deal, please tell me what the fairer deal you want looks like.

Please tell me where I said fairer.

 

[Guinness Boy]

i dont see it as disingenuous at all. seems quite rational that those on the remain side wouldnt want to get involved in the detail of something they dont want to do. and it runs counter to the "stitched up Boris" theory, as Cameron could have announced resignation and the next breath invoked article 50, sending everyone off on a track while jumping from the train. it was widely commented in the weeks immediatly before the vote, when Leave looked a bit likely, that not only is the referendum non-binding but would need an act of parliament to invoke article 50, its not in the power of the PM alone to break the existing treaty(s). so in fairness there was always going to be delay, and it was only ever Cameron who suggested otherwise, as a counter to the argument there would be delay after the vote (Leavers arent the only one back peddling).

Sorry, but the question being asked on Today was just as much about the plans for the country and economy as a whole as the plans for triggering Article 50. So it is disingenuous of a government minister to suggest they have no plans on how to govern when a) that's their job and b) things such as the BoE trying to shore up the pound are already happening.

Cameron is on record as stating the next leader needs to trigger Article 50 - that's what's got Junker's knickers in a twist - and in that respect he's played a blinder. He knows full well that Leave never had a coherent strategy for what happened next as can be seen from everything from BoJo's rowing back article of yesterday to the almost immediate denials that the "saved money" would go to the NHS - something one very prominent Leave campaigner, Douglas Carswell, tweeted WOULD happen during the campaign.

None of this is a good thing by the way. Markets need stability and between the splits in Leave and the splits in Labour we're not going to get it for months, possibly years.

 

[GT49er]

Do you think there's a reason all of these democratically elected MPs don't want to trigger Article 50?

Plenty. Vested interests for a start. Plus the fact that most of them (400+ out of 600) are in their cosy London-centric Westminster Bubble, and have completely lost touch with their grass roots; this is particularly true of Labour, where the PLP is still desperately going against its membership by trying to restore Labour as a Blairite neo Tory party.

 

[Hamilton]

United Kingdom’s Top Import Partners. JUNE 22, 2016

Angela Merkel must be nervous to any outcome.

United States: US$66.5 billion (14.5% of total UK exports)
Germany: $46.4 billion (10.1%)
Switzerland: $32.2 billion (7%)
China: $27.4 billion (5.9%)
France: $27 billion (5.9%)
Netherlands: $26.6 billion (5.8%)
Ireland: $25.5 billion (5.5%)
Belgium: $17.8 billion (3.9%)
Spain: $13.1 billion (2.8%)
Italy: $12.9 billion (2.8%)
United Arab Emirates: $10.3 billion (2.2%)
Hong Kong: $9.6 billion (2.1%)
South Korea: $7 billion (1.5%)
Saudi Arabia: $6.7 billion (1.5%)
Sweden: $6.6 billion (1.4%)

http://www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-exports/

Yeah, I bet she's quaking.

Then she'll look at it as a percentage of overall exports ($1,5 trillion) and she'll feel a bit better.

She'll also look at her import data and see that she's doing twice as much business as the UK. Then I reckon she'll afford herself a small glass of Riesling.

1. Germany US$1.056 trillion 20.3%
2. United Kingdom $629.2 billion 12.1%
3. France $572.7 billion 11%
4. Netherlands $507 billion 9.7%
5. Italy $409 billion 7.8%
6. Belgium $379.1 billion 7.3%
7. Spain $305.3 billion 5.9%
8. Poland $194.2 billion 3.7%
9. Austria $155.6 billion 3%
10. Sweden $138 billion 2.6%

 

[Hamilton]

Plenty. Vested interests for a start. Plus the fact that most of them (400+ out of 600) are in their cosy London-centric Westminster Bubble, and have completely lost touch with their grass roots; this is particularly true of Labour, where the PLP is still desperately going against its membership by trying to restore Labour as a Blairite neo Tory party.

Sorry, I asked you what the facts were that swayed it for you? You've just restated a subjective opinion. I agree that politicians have lost touch, but that wasn't a fact that made you vote leave.

 

[CHAPPERS]

This is a good piece of writing - http://www.versobooks.com/blogs/273...if-we-truly-seek-to-dismantle-white-supremacy

 

[Baldseagull]

We could on the other hand go back to a time, the good old days some would say, when one country held power over other nation states and ruled them from a central government. We could call it a fancy name like U.S.S.R or something like that. We could imagine that one of them finally broke away, swifty followed by others. Walls came down to much rejoicing around the world. Then this could be heralded as a golden age of trade and friendship.

History tells us that political unions of separate nation states do not and will not ever work. Freedom, friendship and trade is the future.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

If we leave the E.U., are you then in favour of dismantling the Union with Scotland too?

History tells us that separate nation states in Europe tend to go to war with each other, fairly often, to secure their own self interests.

It is 100 years since the battle of the Somme started, in a couple of days.

 

[c0lz]

Yeah, I bet she's quaking.

Then she'll look at it as a percentage of overall exports ($1,5 trillion) and she'll feel a bit better.

She'll also look at her import data and see that she's doing twice as much business as the UK. Then I reckon she'll afford herself a small glass of Riesling.

1. Germany US$1.056 trillion 20.3%
2. United Kingdom $629.2 billion 12.1%
3. France $572.7 billion 11%
4. Netherlands $507 billion 9.7%
5. Italy $409 billion 7.8%
6. Belgium $379.1 billion 7.3%
7. Spain $305.3 billion 5.9%
8. Poland $194.2 billion 3.7%
9. Austria $155.6 billion 3%
10. Sweden $138 billion 2.6%

$46.4 billion (10.1%) Nothing to worry about then ?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

One way or another I don't think we are leaving the EU. It is not fair on people like myself who voted for Leave.

My question is, I don't think they will trigger Article 50, so how can they keep us in the EU without running another referendum?

 

[Guinness Boy]

One way or another I don't think we are leaving the EU. It is not fair on people like myself who voted for Leave.

My question is, I don't think they will trigger Article 50, so how can they keep us in the EU without running another referendum?

Because the one they just had is not legally binding, just advisory. All Cameron ever promised in his general election menifesto was a referendum. Another blinder.

 

[Baldseagull]

Of course we can, what a strange thing to say. If she agrees on a trade deal with us, that works for Germany, what are the EU going to do, let Germany leave too?

Please tell me where I said fairer.

I think you really do not understand how a Union works, Merkel cannot do a trade deal with Britain separately to the Union, so yes, she would have to take Germany out of the Union to do that, but we really are not more important than the E.U. to Germany.

I assumed fairer, as you think things will be better outside the Union. Please tell me what you think is fair then.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Because the one they just had is not legally binding, just advisory. All Cameron ever promised in his general election menifesto was a referendum. Another blinder.

I guess you are for Remain, so what you say to the 17 million who voted Leave if you where the Prime Minister?

 

[CHAPPERS]

One way or another I don't think we are leaving the EU. It is not fair on people like myself who voted for Leave.

My question is, I don't think they will trigger Article 50, so how can they keep us in the EU without running another referendum?

The referendum is advisory, not mandatory. Whether Article 50 is invoked or not is a political decision to be made by the PM, hence why Cameron ain't gonna touch it.

 

[Guinness Boy]

One way or another I don't think we are leaving the EU. It is not fair on people like myself who voted for Leave.

My question is, I don't think they will trigger Article 50, so how can they keep us in the EU without running another referendum?

Out of interest by the way what did you think would happen? Did you think immigration policy would immediately change? That we'd just cancel the DD to Brussels and spend it on some hospitals? Or that you were voting in something more than an enormous opinion poll?

 

[CHAPPERS]

I'm quite surprised someone who seems quite political doesn't know that, truth be told.