[Politics] Brexit

[nicko31]

Does this mean unchecked food is coming into the EU zone? I can’t tell from the article.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/brex...suspended-at-belfast-and-larne-ports-2207330/

Sounds like full checks are continuing.

I'd be pretty scared if I was working on that border, a lot of tension

 

[beorhthelm]

seems to me that neither side has really thought through how border checks will work for NI. i dont think there is a solution that works and acceptable to political positions of both UK and EU. NI and to some extent Ireland suffer as result. they've been a pawn in this the whole way through, as found out last week.

 

[Randy McNob]

Seen quite a bit on that this morning and it is very concerning.

The effect of all the other details of the 'Good deal' to date have 'only been economic' and although jeopardising effected industries (financial services, fishing, logistics, farming, exporters etc) and the associated businesses and jobs shouldn't be underestimated, at the end of the day it is 'only economic'.

The Irish Sea Border was the negotiated answer to one of the most significant issues with Brexit which was widely known (and not in any way disputed) even before the referendum. We have had 5 years to get a solution and this is the one we have chosen.

The problem is that this is the detail of the Brexit deal that Johnson negotiated and signed. It is done and dusted and we have to move on. We can hardly keep going back and saying 'we didn't get it right and now want to renegotiate'.

It's very worrying as I can't even imagine what a solution would look like ? Anyone else any ideas ?

whatever the outcome of those negotiations it's exactly what was voted for

 

[nicko31]

seems to me that neither side has really thought through how border checks will work for NI. i dont think there is a solution that works and acceptable to political positions of both UK and EU. NI and to some extent Ireland suffer as result. they've been a pawn in this the whole way through, as found out last week.

There were a number of people all saying in 2016 Ireland would be a massive problem, two former British PM's if I recall. Either people didn't want to listen or didn't care...

 

[WATFORD zero]

whatever the outcome of those negotiations it's exactly what was voted for

Not knowing what they were going to get when they voted for it 5 years ago is understandable if unjustifiable.

But Unionist MPs and unionist supporters like [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] and [MENTION=534]Chicken Run[/MENTION] were still advocating Johnson's Border in the Irish Sea, as the alternative to Theresa May's NI Backstop, even after it became blindingly apparent what the alternative encompassed

 

[WATFORD zero]

seems to me that neither side has really thought through how border checks will work for NI. i dont think there is a solution that works and acceptable to political positions of both UK and EU. NI and to some extent Ireland suffer as result. they've been a pawn in this the whole way through, as found out last week.

I think the EU had thought through exactly how to protect it's single market, hence we had the choice of a border in the Irish sea or the NI backstop. They'd even prepared the compensation for the impact on Ireland of whichever route we chose.

Anyway, all of this is History. Big issue now is how to move forward.

Anyone any ideas as to what is it the Loyalist paramilitaries are trying to achieve by this and how can it be resolved ?

 

[nicko31]

Not knowing what they were going to get when they voted for it 5 years ago is understandable if unjustifiable.

But Unionist MPs and unionist supporters like [MENTION=33253]JC Footy Genius[/MENTION] and [MENTION=534]Chicken Run[/MENTION] were still advocating Johnson's Border in the Irish Sea, as the alternative to Theresa May's NI Backstop, even after it became blindingly apparent what the alternative encompassed

I'm pretty shamed of the sh1t we've put the Irish through with Brexit and our problem will be theirs for many years became. Those who voted for Johnson in 2019 really need to take a long hard look at themselves

As a goodwill gesture we need to start sharing vaccines with Ireland. With a common UK / Ireland travel area its in our mutual interests

 

[vegster]

There were a number of people all saying in 2016 Ireland would be a massive problem, two former British PM's if I recall. Either people didn't want to listen or didn't care...

The Irish border situation was insoluble the moment the votes were counted, it was glaringly obvious there had to be a border between the EU/Third Country of some sort despite the GFA stipulation that there could be NO border!

Every government minister asked about it since 2016 kicked that can down the road or proposed " Technical Solutions" that did not exist as a way of getting around this.

So, the " Deal", that was cobbled together, was always going to fail in some respect one way or another, it was just the size of the impact..... Anyone seen Mogg recently by the way?

 

[beorhthelm]

The Irish border situation was insoluble the moment the votes were counted, it was glaringly obvious there had to be a border between the EU/Third Country of some sort despite the GFA stipulation that there could be NO border!

Every government minister asked about it since 2016 kicked that can down the road or proposed " Technical Solutions" that did not exist as a way of getting around this.

So, the " Deal", that was cobbled together, was always going to fail in some respect one way or another, it was just the size of the impact..... Anyone seen Mogg recently by the way?

the Technical Solutions (tm) might have worked, might not. glosses over what process the solution implements. thats the problem, country of origin, destinations all make that more complex where ever the border is (just moves when you do use the solution).

 

[A1X]

The Irish border situation was insoluble the moment the votes were counted, it was glaringly obvious there had to be a border between the EU/Third Country of some sort despite the GFA stipulation that there could be NO border!

Not necessarily. It became insoluble the minute Theresa May stated we would be ending Single Market, Free Movement and Customs Union membership. None of which were mandatory, that was an active choice by the UK Government.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Not necessarily. It became insoluble the minute Theresa May stated we would be ending Single Market, Free Movement and Customs Union membership. None of which were mandatory, that was an active choice by the UK Government.

Project Con : "Nobody is even talking about leaving the Single Market".

They had no mandate to do so and conned the public.

It is the only thing that makes me mad about leaving the EU ( which I don't care for ). We didn't have a mandate to leave the EEA as well.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Apparently a referendum result is sacrosanct when taking actions such as joining or leaving trading blocs so I naturally assumed there would be one for joining CPTPP. But still it's good to know when the time comes we can rejoin EFTA (and possibly the full EU) without one.

Difference being that the EU is far far more than a trading block - it's a political collective with aspirations of becoming a super state. The CPTPP is just a trading block to reduce / remove tariffs.

 

[A1X]

Difference being that the EU is far far more than a trading block - it's a political collective with aspirations of becoming a super state. The CPTPP is just a trading block to reduce / remove tariffs.

So why is there such a problem with the idea of joining EFTA?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Great news ! , day is day night is night , went shopping got the food I wanted ,filled the car up with petrol no problem.got some cash out of the cash point no problem, going to order a curry later , any news on a emergency budget that could be a problem
Regards
DF

The value of my house has crashed as predicted .... oh, silly me, it's gone up

 

[WATFORD zero]

The value of my house has crashed as predicted .... oh, silly me, it's gone up

You've buggered your retirement plans, your daughter now has to wait to see whether Johnson gets the Turin replacement in place by the time she starts Uni in September having missed out on Erasmus (he won't), we have Loyalist paramilitaries threatening to kick off again in NI, the Financial Services industry, The Fishing industry, The Logistics Industry, The Farming industry, The Fashion Industry, etc etc have all been f***ed over.

But the price of your house in 'the arse end of Hangleton' has gone up. What it is to be a winner

And back on topic of what you actually voted for rather than the vagaries of the Hangleton housing market

Northern Ireland leaders to discuss Brexit tensions with UK and EU

The Cabinet Office minister, Michael Gove, Northern Ireland’s first minister, Arlene Foster, the deputy first minister, Michelle O’Neill, and the European commission vice-president Maroš Šefčovič will meet on Wednesday to discuss escalating tensions over Brexit in Northern Ireland.

The meeting comes after all Northern Irish and EU officials were withdrawn from duties conducting physical checks on goods from Great Britain amid concerns over their safety after reports of “menacing behaviour”. The threats have been widely condemned, with Ireland’s taoiseach, Micheál Martin, describing them as “sinister and ugly” on Tuesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/02/northern-ireland-leaders-to-discuss-brexit-tensions-with-uk-and-eu

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Posted on this thread at the request of [MENTION=599]beorhthelm[/MENTION]

These views from last December have aged well ....

As this quicker, as out of the EU fantasy, has been debunked thoroughly, I guess we can expect an apology from the government for trying to deceive it's people?

The first thing I thought was, also, we are being rather hasty, perhaps the EU countries wanted a guineau pig to go first, sensing Johnson and his Government would grasp at any opportunity to claim superiority at any turn, we were the ideal candidates

Maybe, could have. Countries make up their own minds. In this case, a combined roll out makes more sense.

Getting the vaccine out quickly is important, but so is public confidence and trust. It does seem the latter is the priority for the EU.

I personally would take the vaccine tomorrow, but I've personally been surprised at the number of people I've heard express reservations our process has been rushed through too quickly. I really hope corners have not been cut to create some faux victory for the Johnson administration

Perhaps Europe thinks of everyone rather than take an insular approach, after all, the main purpose is to stop the spread and the countries in mainland Europe are all connected

I don't agree that a Brexit / Trumpist / Nationalistic approach is helpfull with a global problem

 

[Westdene Seagull]

[TWEET]1356210271027654659[/TWEET]

Maybe YouGov might like to ask the re-join question again once it's made clear that we wouldn't rejoin under the same terms as we had before - we'd lose our rebate, we'd lose some of the opt outs we'd agreed and most importantly we'd have to join the Euro.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

You've buggered your retirement plans, your daughter now has to wait to see whether Johnson gets the Turin replacement in place by the time she starts Uni in September, having missed out on Erasmus (he won't), we have Loyalist paramilitaries threatening to kick off again in NI, the Financial Services industry, The Fishing industry, The Logistics Industry, The Farming industry, The Fashion Industry, etc etc have all been f***ed over.

But the price of your house in 'the arse end of Hangleton' has gone up. What it is to be a winner

Could be worse ... we could have ended up with your preferred no-deal outcome. Makes all your faux outrage/concern about damage to the economy and problems in NI seem a tad hypocritical.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You've buggered your retirement plans, your daughter now has to wait to see whether Johnson gets the Turin replacement in place by the time she starts Uni in September having missed out on Erasmus (he won't), we have Loyalist paramilitaries threatening to kick off again in NI, the Financial Services industry, The Fishing industry, The Logistics Industry, The Farming industry, The Fashion Industry, etc etc have all been f***ed over.

But the price of your house in 'the arse end of Hangleton' has gone up. What it is to be a winner

And back on topic of what you actually voted for rather than the vagaries of the Hangleton housing market

Northern Ireland leaders to discuss Brexit tensions with UK and EU

The Cabinet Office minister, Michael Gove, Northern Ireland’s first minister, Arlene Foster, the deputy first minister, Michelle O’Neill, and the European commission vice-president Maroš Šefčovič will meet on Wednesday to discuss escalating tensions over Brexit in Northern Ireland.

The meeting comes after all Northern Irish and EU officials were withdrawn from duties conducting physical checks on goods from Great Britain amid concerns over their safety after reports of “menacing behaviour”. The threats have been widely condemned, with Ireland’s taoiseach, Micheál Martin, describing them as “sinister and ugly” on Tuesday.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/02/northern-ireland-leaders-to-discuss-brexit-tensions-with-uk-and-eu

You're very sensitive when it comes to someone pointing out the lies of the remain campaign .... I really can't imagine why. And FYI, my daughter has just been offered a place at Portsmouth Uni that includes the 3rd year abroad .... around 50 uni's across the world INCLUDING EU ones. So really, stop with the lying.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Could be worse ... we could have ended up with your preferred no-deal outcome. Makes all your faux outrage/concern about damage to the economy and problems in NI seem a tad hypocritical.

And what do you think the Loyalist terrorist groups are trying to achieve ? I ask because despite voting for an Irish Sea Border, I know you are one the most Ardent self confessed Unionist supporters on here and I would, therefor, expect you to have an insight.

Because I'm buggered if I know