Bradford Fire Anniversary

[Gritt23]

I remember the day very clearly, and the horror of the stories were etched on my mind for a long time. In a similar way to how the Hillborough tragedy hit home because we'd all been in crushes, we had all been in rickety old wooden stands and in hindsight we realised it could have been any of us.

A guy I used to work with is a big Bradford fan - got married on the pitch at half time - and was at Valley Parade that day, although not in that stand. The memories of the day will never leave him, and I can only imagine the horrors he heard and saw.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

It took just over three and a half minutes from the first sign of the fire to the entire stand being engulfed- anyone who's ever doubted just how quickly something like this can spread should take a look. They show the videos in many organisations now as part of fire safety training. The most difficult moments to watch are undoubtedly the man on fire, and the crowd desperately trying to escape, plus I guess the copper whose hair catches fire. Presumably the difficulty in getting out is why so many of the dead were old folk.

Let us hope that as next year is a significant anniversary (25th) it merits the same sort of coverage on the BBC that Hillsborough does this year, and most others.

Do you think it will

 

[Lady Whistledown]

* Felix Winspear Greenwood Aged 13 from Denholme
* Peter Greenwood Aged 46 from Denholme
* Rupert Benedict Greenwood Aged 11 from Denholme

Presumably a father and two kids from the same family

 

[Gritt23]

Just watched the clip again - first time in years - it's the speed that it spread that is so horrific. Also, you can see why the deaths were at the back of the stand, because if you had tried to escape to the front you would have got out. Who had the keys to the gate at the back, and where the hell were they?

Standing somewhere in a state of shock presumably.

Horrific, truly horrific.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Also, you can see why the deaths were at the back of the stand, because if you had tried to escape to the front you would have got out. Who had the keys to the gate at the back, and where the hell were they?

Which makes the lack of media attention all the more odd, as clearly there were gross errors of judgement made, along with a complete absence/ignorance of any kind of health & safety regulations.

It's as though the people back then just accepted that was the way football grounds were. The only difference between this and Hillsborough appears to be that there's no suggestion of an official cover-up afterwards.

 

[Lindfield by the Pond]

I haven't forgotten this; we had distant relations who died in it and others who still bear the scares. Coincidently we met up with them at a family funeral only last Friday up in Bradford and got chatting about this. It was interesting to hear how he described the day unfold and the aftermath. But to him it's now something that happened a very long time ago (even though they remember the victims each anniversary, next year being the 25th) - no flashbacks or nightmares incurred.

He's still a season-ticket holder at Valley Parade, as are other family who we met up with at the w/e. I could see on his face the skin grafts had done a remarkable job of rebuilding him; with time they'd faded into his ageing skin. But his hands were still terribly scarred and when he showed me them I shivered - fingers were shorter etc than those on his other hand because his hands had melted on the red hot iron railings as he desperately fought to get his dad over the front of the burning stand. Unfortunately he died later in hospital. Tragic indeed, I remember it well.

Well put.

 

[The Spanish]

Which makes the lack of media attention all the more odd, as clearly there were gross errors of judgement made, along with a complete absence/ignorance of any kind of health & safety regulations.

It's as though the people back then just accepted that was the way football grounds were. The only difference between this and Hillsborough appears to be that there's no suggestion of an official cover-up afterwards.

people did, you are right. blimey we all remember entire stands being shut and left fallow (ewood park for example, the opposite one to their main stand) due to being unsafe, remember what a health risk the valley was with swathes of it closed.

i am as guilty as anyone about getting misty eyed for the eighties but f***ing hell it was f***ed up, when you think about it for more than a few seconds.

i am no fan of the paddies who couldnt afford the boat to america, but there is no need to quote bradford just because the way scousers grieve or deal with things doesnt sit easily with you. plenty of matches in those days were narrowly averted disasters.

 

[mrhairy]

I've just finished reading Hillsborough The Truth. It is stated in in that the oldest newspaper found in the ashes after the Bradford fire was 1968. Bradford was an example of the corporate laziness and corporate lack of concern for the safety of the supporter and certainly a tradgedy.

However, Hillborough was more than a tradegy as many died whom could have been saved. The inquest and the 3.15 cut-off. The inaction, lies, and covers up by the police.

Of course no one should die just going to a football match and if you include Heysel, the three things added to why the game had to reinvent itself. Might I also suggest that when everybody insists on standing at games all the above contributed to why we have seats.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I haven't said a word about grieving Scousers.

My question is perhaps more to do with the fact that football supporters in the 1980s just accepted being treated like shit, and when something appalling happened, it was viewed as terrible, but just one of those things.

Perhaps it took a second tragedy, Hillsborough, to make people realise things couldn't go on the way they were. Maybe that's why Bradford doesn't hold a place in the consciousness of many people like Hillsborough does.

Still strange how some incidents burn brighter than others in the memory. How many other disasters occurred in the late 1980s that are almost forgotten now? Off the top of my head, the Clapham and Purley train crashes, the Herald of Free Enterprise capsizing, the Kings Cross fire, the Kegworth plane crash, Lockerbie, and the Marchioness sinking.

Anyone remember how many died in each of these? Nearly all due to human error too.

 

[The Spanish]

I haven't said a word about grieving Scousers.

My question is perhaps more to do with the fact that football supporters in the 1980s just accepted being treated like shit, and when something appalling happened, it was viewed as terrible, but just one of those things.

Perhaps it took a second tragedy, Hillsborough, to make people realise things couldn't go on the way they were. Maybe that's why Bradford doesn't hold a place in the consciousness of many people like Hillsborough does.

Still strange how some incidents burn brighter than others in the memory. How many other disasters occurred in the late 1980s that are almost forgotten now? Off the top of my head, the Clapham and Purley train crashes, the Herald of Free Enterprise capsizing, the Kings Cross fire, the Kegworth plane crash, Lockerbie, and the Marchioness sinking.

Anyone remember how many died in each of these? Nearly all due to human error too.

i didnt mean you had edna. its just whenever hillborough is mentioned someone automatically mentions bradford or ibrox as examples of ones that are not made so much of a fuss about. they may have some sort of point somewhere but forget we have all been in crushes that have turned nasty or sat in stands that could have gone up easily. it wasnt aimed at you.

you have a point that it does seem the late eighties were seemingly full of disasters, or maybe they just sticks in our memory if we are of a certain age. blimey i remember all the ones you mention very clearly indeed.

 

[bigc]

Killed 31, when that was my closest tube station last year, I thought about it quite alot. I remember reading there had actually been the potential of an escape route coming up via what was the Thameslink station, but there was no co-ordination to unlock that route.

It's incredible to think of wooden escalators as late as 1987 and the danger potential caused by the debris by them.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

you have a point that it does seem the late eighties were seemingly full of disasters, or maybe they just sticks in our memory if we are of a certain age. blimey i remember all the ones you mention very clearly indeed.

Was a pretty bad decade when you think about it. There were also (in the UK alone) the Piper Alpha oil rig disaster and Hungerford. Quite sad really how the name of one small town, like Hungerford, or Lockerbie, or Dunblane, becomes synonymous in our minds with tragedy.

 

[shaun_rc]

Reading that list above was really moving. I lived for a year in Bingley, working in Shipley, and to see those names with where they lived made it seem very real.

Hillborough was a tragedy too, but I'm afraid I think there's something in the idea that Liverpudlians are professional grievers. Not saying it was their fault, but the difference in media attention is quite shocking really.

 

[wizo7]

i'd hardly heard anything of this before i read this thread and watched the footage from Youtube. terrible scenes. Should have recieved more coverage so those that lost their lives could be remembered.

 

[Cian]

Quite sad really how the name of one small town, like Hungerford, or Lockerbie, or Dunblane, becomes synonymous in our minds with tragedy.

Lockerbie's quite a nice place and all (never been to Hungerford or Dunblane to comment...), forever overshadowed by what happened. One of the engines exploded the house of a great aunt/uncle there, was the first member of my side of the family to go see the site last year.

 

[wizo7]

i didnt mean you had edna. its just whenever hillborough is mentioned someone automatically mentions bradford or ibrox as examples of ones that are not made so much of a fuss about. they may have some sort of point somewhere but forget we have all been in crushes that have turned nasty or sat in stands that could have gone up easily. it wasnt aimed at you.

you have a point that it does seem the late eighties were seemingly full of disasters, or maybe they just sticks in our memory if we are of a certain age. blimey i remember all the ones you mention very clearly indeed.

apologies for the naivety, but what happened at Ibrox? just shocked i have not heard of the other football disasters from other grounds!

 

[Barrel of Fun]

apologies for the naivety, but what happened at Ibrox? just shocked i have not heard of the other football disasters from other grounds!

BBC ON THIS DAY | 2 | 1971: Sixty-six die in Scottish football disaster

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

I've just finished reading Hillsborough The Truth. It is stated in in that the oldest newspaper found in the ashes after the Bradford fire was 1968. Bradford was an example of the corporate laziness and corporate lack of concern for the safety of the supporter and certainly a tradgedy.

However, Hillborough was more than a tradegy as many died whom could have been saved. The inquest and the 3.15 cut-off. The inaction, lies, and covers up by the police.

Of course no one should die just going to a football match and if you include Heysel, the three things added to why the game had to reinvent itself. Might I also suggest that when everybody insists on standing at games all the above contributed to why we have seats.

They may have contributed to why we have seats at games but that does not make it right.
From my basic knowledge Valley Parade and Hillsborough were caused mainly by human error, not cleaning up years of rubbish below a stand and locking exits (Valley Parade), forcing too many spectators into a space that can't hold them safely (Hillsborough). In fact if you look at the Valley Parade video it is the people in the terraces who are the luckier ones and the ones in the seats at the back have more difficulty getting out.
Safe standing can exist, but it needs to be alongside proper control of spectators in the stands that they are standing in.

 

[Barry Izbak]

apologies for the naivety, but what happened at Ibrox? just shocked i have not heard of the other football disasters from other grounds!

Rangers Home THE IBROX DISASTER

I remember this being on the news when i was a kid. My mum didn't want my dad to take me to the Albion for a while after, but like so many things, once it slipped out of the headlines, everyone just carries on.

 

[wizo7]

Cheers "Barrel of fun" and "Barry Izbak". shocked i've never heard of it seen as i read quite a lot of books about the past on football.